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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes Offensive >> best DC feature removed from adrennes

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best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/5/2021 11:55:55 AM

MultiPurposeCanine

Posts: 30
Joined: 7/1/2020
Status: offline

If you ask me the relationship, events, and decisions were best gameplay module in dcb which got me interested in this series in the first place. you could turn it on and off, but i know nobody that every played without it as most loved it

now they removed this feature from dcao, for me "buy decisive" worst news...

can at least mod creators do something and add relationship, events, and decisions or improve back with the new editor (good!) or is is dcao another mod minefield?

< Message edited by MultiPurposeCanine -- 6/5/2021 11:59:25 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/5/2021 6:13:04 PM

ranknfile

Posts: 155
Joined: 2/9/2021
From: New Orleans
Status: offline

I too found the relationships made DC3 a uniquely interesting game. However - as much as I like playing Barbarossa as the Germans, and as much as I enjoyed playing as Halder in DC3, the scale I prefer is battalion-sized, and so I tended to play John Tiller's games instead of either DC3 or WitE. While I now feel that WitE2 is the finest game I have encountered in my 50 years of playing wargames, I nonetheless hold out hope that DC:AO will take that title (for my preference) from WitE2. This game introduces some interesting concepts; as to how well they work out, we shall see.

(in reply to MultiPurposeCanine)

Post #: 2

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/6/2021 2:49:02 PM

willgamer

Posts: 902
Joined: 6/2/2002
From: Huntsville, Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MultiPurposeCanine

If you ask me the relationship, events, and decisions were best gameplay module in dcb which got me interested in this series in the first place. you could turn it on and off, but i know nobody that every played without it as most loved it

now they removed this feature from dcao, for me "buy decisive" worst news...

can at least mod creators do something and add relationship, events, and decisions or improve back with the new editor (good!) or is is dcao another mod minefield?

You're not alone...

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(in reply to MultiPurposeCanine)

Post #: 3

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/6/2021 3:46:10 PM

theWombat

Posts: 48
Joined: 9/11/2004
Status: offline

Part of the issue may well be that by late 1944, pretty much all the relationship building was done and everything was on the long slide towards the Nazis' rather sordid cut-rate version of Gotterdammerung. This is post-Stauffenberg, the writing is on the wall, and there is none of that flexibility and possibility for change that was present at least in theory during the early days of Barbarossa. Then, people in the high command actually could think about balancing careers and strategies, and "winning" was something that reasonable people still entertained. By Wacht am Rhine, eh, not so much.

(in reply to willgamer)

Post #: 4

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/7/2021 10:28:49 AM

Delaware

Posts: 212
Joined: 8/6/2013
Status: offline

I think the time scale of Ardennes doesn�t permit any role play also. We are talking a much shorter, tighter campaign than Barbarossa

(in reply to theWombat)

Post #: 5

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/7/2021 10:43:16 AM

chris_merchant

Posts: 71
Joined: 10/23/2017
Status: offline

it will be my first Vic game purchase due to the fact that the roleplay/relationship stuff is not present.

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Post #: 6

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/7/2021 12:44:35 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

Every DC game has its own set of features. Each title has something the others do not have. So it has not been removed, it just has not been added :)

I made the deliberate choice to make DC4 just a classic counter-pushing wargame and to do that well.

Best wishes,
Vic

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Post #: 7

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/7/2021 4:15:51 PM

jwarrenw13

Posts: 1897
Joined: 8/12/2000
From: Louisiana, USA
Status: offline

Considering the list of features added, I am greatly looking forward to this game. From the product page. With all this added, I see no problem with not including the role playing aspect.

Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes Offensive comes with dozens of additions, changes and improvements designed to fit its scale and to bring innovation to the series. The result is an extremely immersive operational wargame where, more than ever, intelligent tactics can beat the odds.

Weather is more detailed than ever before, with over 5 different Hex states that show different combinations of precipitation, snow cover and frost.
Small villages and hamlets are now visible as well as height levels.
Ardennes Offensive adds line of sight to the Decisive Campaign Series for the first time: hills block line of sight and Recon is now more important than ever.
Hexes are no longer owned. You can expect enemy troops to infiltrate your lines without you noticing.
The Supply System has been overhauled. This overhaul includes the introduction of traffic congestion rules, which can especially impact the Fuel deliveries to your Units.
Intercept Fire makes advancing in open terrain a hazardous affair, but also brings dynamisms to the game with enemy Units acting while you are moving yours. Make the call: If you don�t want to leave your Units some Action Points then they can�t react to enemy moves the upcoming turn.
You can now switch your Units between March Mode and Combat Mode. March Mode allows double the movement but makes your Units very vulnerable to possible intercept fire.
When attacking a hex, you can now also choose between different intensities of attack ranging from a Probe Attack to an All-Out-Attack.
Ardennes Offensive adds the Uncertainty Rule as an optional feature. If you play with this rule each Unit gets a hidden combat modifier that you will discover over time as the Unit sees more and more combat.
It is possible to create Kampfgruppes on the fly, Scrap equipment and even use on-map Truck Units to transport other Units.
Complete rehaul of the hex graphics as well as the Unit graphics. As a result, DC: Ardennes Offensive comes with a fresh-looking map, unit counters as well as new and matching troop and landscape illustrations.
The interface has adapted left-right-click conventions in order to have a quicker and smoother experience moving your Units.
The AI has been reworked a lot and will provide a solid challenge even in regular mode.
DC: Ardennes Offensive is the first title in the series with accessible and easy-to-use editors.

(in reply to Vic)

Post #: 8

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/7/2021 6:45:50 PM

ernieschwitz

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
Status: offline

I think you guys are mixing up what is the game engine (which can be used to make multiple games) and what is the game. The DC-engine does not contain the Relationship code, the game does. It is just like dice and dice games. You can play many games with dice, not just one dice game...

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Post #: 9

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/8/2021 2:59:35 PM

sol_invictus

Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

I agree with not trying to shoehorn in the mechanic from Barbarossa to Ardennes. It was great in Barbarossa because it reflected the reality of the situation but Ardennes was almost exclusively Hitler's baby and a much more condensed operation.

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Post #: 10

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/15/2021 7:44:23 PM

wodin

Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

I too would LOVE to see another game like DC:B come out at some point.

I too was down hearted when I found out Ardennes was dropping these features.

However forget DC:B and take the game as a new wargame then it stands well on it's own. It looks AMAZING. ALso the scale and new features make it a worthwhile purchase when released.

SO don't compare it to DC:B but if you compare it to the first two DC games it stands above them proudly.

Again though I do wish someone would take up the DC:B batton and carry on with new games with it's rpg elements and features. I'd love to see maybe a more tactical game say at Coy or platoon scale or even squad, with all those RPG elemnts. WOuld be unique and become a tactical wargame No1 spot for sure.

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Post #: 11

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/18/2021 1:19:16 PM

freeboy

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

I didnt care for the decision tree, so I am in the minority

I wouldnt mind alternative sets of circumstances but this looks like the game of the year in my wish list
any projected release date?

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 12

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/18/2021 10:57:27 PM

chris_merchant

Posts: 71
Joined: 10/23/2017
Status: offline

there was initially talk of middle of the year but I think it's more likely that was too ambitious.

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 13

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 6/21/2021 3:57:43 PM

Vic

Posts: 8262
Joined: 5/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: chris_merchant

there was initially talk of middle of the year but I think it's more likely that was too ambitious.

yes it was :)

there was more Shadow Empire support work than expected as well.

and now the summer holidays are coming up.

but with the stars aligned well it should still arrive this year.

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(in reply to chris_merchant)

Post #: 14

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 10/10/2021 11:29:57 PM

CSO_Talorgan

Posts: 768
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13

DC: Ardennes Offensive is the first title in the series with accessible and easy-to-use editors.

Do we know yet just how much flexibility those editors will give?

(in reply to jwarrenw13)

Post #: 15

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 10/11/2021 12:52:59 AM

Simulacra53

Posts: 632
Joined: 5/16/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

I didnt care for the decision tree, so I am in the minority.

Don�t know about minority, just more silent.
Between the DC games I enjoy Blitzkrieg most, the classic counter pusher, so in a way I welcome this news.

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 16

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 10/14/2021 10:19:16 AM

wodin

Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MultiPurposeCanine

If you ask me the relationship, events, and decisions were best gameplay module in dcb which got me interested in this series in the first place. you could turn it on and off, but i know nobody that every played without it as most loved it

now they removed this feature from dcao, for me "buy decisive" worst news...

can at least mod creators do something and add relationship, events, and decisions or improve back with the new editor (good!) or is is dcao another mod minefield?

I hope to see another game using those features oneday

_____________________________

My website

https://www.awargamersneedfulthings.co.uk/

(in reply to MultiPurposeCanine)

Post #: 17

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 10/23/2021 3:48:06 PM

Octavian

Posts: 65
Joined: 11/29/2019
Status: offline

I just feel an urge to line up in the ranks of those players - may it be majority or not - who really appreciate, that the roleplaying aspect is not conquering the next title of VR-Designs.

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 18

RE: best DC feature removed from adrennes - 10/25/2021 7:17:55 PM

governato

Posts: 1079
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

quote:

ORIGINAL: MultiPurposeCanine

If you ask me the relationship, events, and decisions were best gameplay module in dcb which got me interested in this series in the first place. you could turn it on and off, but i know nobody that every played without it as most loved it

now they removed this feature from dcao, for me "buy decisive" worst news...

can at least mod creators do something and add relationship, events, and decisions or improve back with the new editor (good!) or is is dcao another mod minefield?

I hope to see another game using those features oneday

I wish Barbarossa had additions based on the same 'decisions' system for the following years (that could be joined to "Barbarossa" of course). I find that most East Front games that stick to the operational side soon lose contact with reality, even if their engine system may be more adavanced/detailed.

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 19