Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials

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Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/11/2021 3:34:02 PM

HOTEC

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The manual has not mentioned anything about the conversion of tons of freights needed for each actual material.
(e.g. how many tons of freight required to convert to a Tiger for replacement? )
Is there any priority of the actual materials to be converted?
How do we know the AI would do the best without knowing what it does?

Icon for cross-finger should be provided for selection.

BTW, Am I correct that there are only 7 NSS for the Soviet because of a duplication of Chelyabinsk as shown in 25.2.3.

25.2.3 states that "Each national supply source is set to generate 2.5 million tons of freight in each supply phase". However, it shows Depot freight level: 1,000,000. What make the reduction from 2.5m to 1m?

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/11/2021 3:43:56 PM

HOTEC

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What would be the fate of units refitting in the Nation Reserve if the Axis lose a NSS under 25.2.4?

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/11/2021 9:35:10 PM

Gam3r

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quote:

(e.g. how many tons of freight required to convert to a Tiger for replacement? )

perhaps this:

Attachment (1)

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/12/2021 8:44:01 AM

Mehring

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One issue with freight is that weight has no direct relation to bulk or availability of specialist transport. A ton of hay takes more space than a ton of munitions and you need a flat car to carry a tank, which is little use for carrying manganese ore. The game has to abstract this but I'm not sure how.

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/12/2021 9:42:05 AM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HOTEC

What would be the fate of units refitting in the Nation Reserve if the Axis lose a NSS under 25.2.4?

They won't get any replacements. Once your economy has collapsed the only remaining freight is that already in the depot system (which will not get replaced but at least can keep you going for a few more turns)

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/12/2021 10:09:54 AM

HOTEC

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a) If the load cost is not the mean to convert from freight to the actual material, what will it be? (i.e. 257 tons of freight not to be converted to 1 Tiger)

b) My understanding on 25.2.4. is that if the Axis lose any 1 of 4 NSSs, the destroyed units will no longer be placed in the Nation Reserve to refit. As "in" is no longer permitted, will those units already in the Nation Reserve not be allowed "out" from the Nation Reserve to enter the game once the refit has completed?

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/12/2021 12:22:28 PM

loki100

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From: Utlima Thule
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HOTEC

a) If the load cost is not the mean to convert from freight to the actual material, what will it be? (i.e. 257 tons of freight not to be converted to 1 Tiger)

b) My understanding on 25.2.4. is that if the Axis lose any 1 of 4 NSSs, the destroyed units will no longer be placed in the Nation Reserve to refit. As "in" is no longer permitted, will those units already in the Nation Reserve not be allowed "out" from the Nation Reserve to enter the game once the refit has completed?

a) the cost to load a unit to a train or ship is the net cost of all the elements in the unit, so each Tiger costs 257, a unit with 10 will cost 2,570 (plus other elements). This cost is drawn from the relevant shipping pool or the local railyards which produces the capacity to move any 'freight' whether its a combat unit or part of the logistics segment

b) yes, they can refit (if you still have the resources) & then come to the map

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/12/2021 2:54:11 PM

HOTEC

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a) Is "the unit with 10" a hypothetical speaking or each ground element have freight conversion of its load cost x 10?

b) Where is its entry point?

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/12/2021 3:01:03 PM

loki100

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a) I made it up simply as an example

b) whatever you set - see the manual on transfer to the map

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/12/2021 3:12:59 PM

HOTEC

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It is hard to follow of why the freight conversion to the actual material is a state of art!

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/12/2021 3:35:00 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HOTEC

It is hard to follow of why the freight conversion to the actual material is a state of art!

not quite sure what you mean here. 25.3 is relatively clear as to the basics.

Freight is an abstract concept used to bundle up supply/ammo/fuel/replacements and move them. Each of these has a weight which is used to claim rail capacity. When that freight arrives at a target unit its broken out as needed (as long as it exists in the active pool).

Why the abstraction? Processing time and game complexity.

but the conversion of freight-whatever is pretty clear. 1 tonne of freight =1 tonne of supply or (ot use the eg earlier in this thread) 1/237 of a Tiger Tank.

In my experience the conversion routine works pretty well, I rarely have fuel rich, ammo lacking formations or the other variants. The reason why you can run short of replacements is due to some differences in how that is handled.

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/12/2021 4:42:03 PM

HOTEC

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loud and clear. thanks.

Say, ammo (10 tons), fuel (20) and a Tiger (257) have produced and converted to 287 (10+20+257) tons of freight. Say 50 tons of freight are lost due to the air interdiction. What would the unit receive?
Is it necessary the loss of 257 tons of freight for a total loss of 1 Tiger? How does WITE2 handle it?
The identity of actual material is lost in conversion.

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/13/2021 2:37:14 AM

LiquidSky

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Freight is freight. Nothing else. Only when a unit 'needs' or requests stuff will that freight be converted into ammo/fuel/supplies/replacements.

If freight is lost in transit, it is only freight. The actual items lost is converted into stuff which is removed from the pools. I've usually assumed it to be supply, but with the pools being very large, what it actually chooses is probably mostly meaningless.

Note that stuff does not convert into freight. Freight converts into stuff. Your NSS sends out freight. Freight flows down the rail lines, drawn by Railyards. It gets stored in the depot as freight. Only then, when a unit attempts to draw what it needs, it is converted from the freight.

The stuff sits in a pool. Or it sits in a unit.

In your example, if freight is lost during movement from a depot to a unit, it would be already converted into stuff and so it would be the stuff that is lost. How that happens is probably random, could be prorated, or maybe is just supplies. But with the pools being so large, and replacements being rarely sent to a front line unit, I doubt it matters much. What is more important is that trucks get destroyed, since that prevents the movement of freight as stuff to the unit.

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/13/2021 10:48:54 AM

Starway

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quote:

if freight is lost during movement from a depot to a unit, it would be already converted into stuff and so it would be the stuff that is lost

Are you sure? I thought freight is converted after/when it arrives at the unit.

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RE: Conversion of Freights to the Actual Materials - 6/13/2021 3:17:15 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Starway

quote:

if freight is lost during movement from a depot to a unit, it would be already converted into stuff and so it would be the stuff that is lost

Are you sure? I thought freight is converted after/when it arrives at the unit.

he's right, lost freight is then converted to the specific items (in a ratio to what was planned to be delivered) and deducted from the relevant pools. In effect 'lost' is the final state for that bit of freight, so it becomes supply etc.

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