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Rail repair units - 6/23/2021 12:16:03 PM   
Laits


Posts: 144
Joined: 11/1/2019
Status: offline 		Hello everybody.

As many players do I put some RAD units to empty HQ in order to repair specific parts of the map.
However I noticed that even if there wasn’t any FBD unit in the area, my RAD did not repair the rails up to the front and that this tactic only work in the rear part of the map (and so, secondary lines). So, practically speaking, it happens that my “rail repair HQ” doesn’t use its RAD units even if there are tons of rail to repair within the 5 hexes distance.
There is nothing about this point in the manual. Am I missing something?

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/23/2021 12:59:46 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		the only formal constraint is that the SU can't repair adjacent to a FBD/NKPS. And that they can't go adjacent to an enemy unit (even if other units are in the hex).

beyond that should be ok.

heres an eg of one right up at the front from my current game:






Attachment (1)

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/23/2021 3:44:01 PM   
Laits


Posts: 144
Joined: 11/1/2019
Status: offline 		Ok, so there is a problem because there are many situations when my RAD units are unused even if all the prerequisites are met.
I noticed that it happens with corps HQ and not with the army ones.
It’s quite disappointing because in the long turn it’s a lot of hexes that are not converted.
I’ll try to provide some screens as soon as possible (I cannot use my last turns for it’s a server game)

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/23/2021 5:23:23 PM   
Starway


Posts: 15
Joined: 5/16/2021
From: Bielefeld, Germany
Status: offline 		Maybe, because they must be next to a connected rail line hex?

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/23/2021 8:03:23 PM   
DeletedUser44

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline 		I have had same issue where I have four or so R.A.D construction units in a Corp HQ, and carefully placed to be within 5 hexes of qualifying broken rail hexes....

only to find that they do not want to repair the ones with 3-4 hexes of front lines... and so a couple of them sat idle and I missed out on their repair feature.

I just shake my head, in complete confusion on why they would avoid repairing those hexes...

I assumed their was some kind of undocumented enemy range restriction I was not aware of.


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RE: Rail repair units - 6/23/2021 11:17:03 PM   
carlkay58

 

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline 		The RAD units seem to stop in the four hex range from enemy units occasionally. I don't know if this is a new feature that has crept into the game in recent versions or not. I have seen them repair adjacent to enemy controlled hexes but not near enemy units in the past few versions at least. I will point out, however, that I rarely use them that close to the front lines.

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/24/2021 2:38:21 PM   
DeletedUser44

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

The RAD units seem to stop in the four hex range from enemy units occasionally. I don't know if this is a new feature that has crept into the game in recent versions or not. I have seen them repair adjacent to enemy controlled hexes but not near enemy units in the past few versions at least. I will point out, however, that I rarely use them that close to the front lines.


You are correct and it is very inconsistent.

Last turn I can see them deployed close to Leningrad Border, like within 2 hexes of enemy front. But where I needed them previously near Veluki Luki, they would not go anywhere within 5 hexes of enemy front and simply refused to deploy. ???

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/25/2021 12:58:10 AM   
Laits


Posts: 144
Joined: 11/1/2019
Status: offline 		There is clearly a problem here. It's unfortunate for the German player given the scarce resources he has to create a decent rail network.

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/25/2021 7:46:24 PM   
juv95hrn

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline 		Is there a way to "encourage" the rail HQs to fill up with rail repair SUs? According to the manual there is no way to manually do this. Could the AI attach new RR-repair units in any manner? Since one of them have no rr-units in it, it currently useless.

Other than that I experience the same as above, lots of idle rr-repair units in HQs near broken rr-lines.

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Post #: 9
RE: Rail repair units - 6/26/2021 8:18:32 AM   
Rollerman

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 4/10/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Laits

There is clearly a problem here. It's unfortunate for the German player given the scarce resources he has to create a decent rail network.

Speaking of Germany and rail networks, how many rail repair units do the axis get? I play the 1941 scenario and I have not gotten that far, perhaps 5-6 turns mostly due to me being a noob and have to restart. SO far I think axis have 4? 1 for grp north, 1 for grp center, 1 for grp south and 1 for Romania.

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/26/2021 9:17:25 AM   
DeletedUser44

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rollerman


quote:

ORIGINAL: Laits

There is clearly a problem here. It's unfortunate for the German player given the scarce resources he has to create a decent rail network.

Speaking of Germany and rail networks, how many rail repair units do the axis get? I play the 1941 scenario and I have not gotten that far, perhaps 5-6 turns mostly due to me being a noob and have to restart. SO far I think axis have 4? 1 for grp north, 1 for grp center, 1 for grp south and 1 for Romania.


1 for AGN
2 for AGC
1 for AGS
1 for Romania (but disbands around turn 15 I think)

Also get about 8 R.A.D. Labor Construction units. These are controlled by Axis Logistic AI

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/26/2021 12:19:54 PM   
Rollerman

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 4/10/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sauron_II


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rollerman


quote:

ORIGINAL: Laits

There is clearly a problem here. It's unfortunate for the German player given the scarce resources he has to create a decent rail network.

Speaking of Germany and rail networks, how many rail repair units do the axis get? I play the 1941 scenario and I have not gotten that far, perhaps 5-6 turns mostly due to me being a noob and have to restart. SO far I think axis have 4? 1 for grp north, 1 for grp center, 1 for grp south and 1 for Romania.


1 for AGN
2 for AGC
1 for AGS
1 for Romania (but disbands around turn 15 I think)

Also get about 8 R.A.D. Labor Construction units. These are controlled by Axis Logistic AI

Is there any hotkey for selecting all the repair units?

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/26/2021 2:08:34 PM   
Commanderski


Posts: 927
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

Is there any hotkey for selecting all the repair units?


CTRL-9

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/27/2021 9:10:18 AM   
Jango32

 

Posts: 307
Joined: 3/15/2021
Status: offline 		Sometimes the railway repair SUs roll out on the map and sometimes they don't.

Right now for example only 1 out of 4 rolled out in two consecutive turns, and 4 from another HQ haven't rolled out at all. This is along the coast of the Black Sea. No adjacent enemy units and the HQs are in range of rail to repair. I am still confused why this occurs.

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Post #: 14
RE: Rail repair units - 6/29/2021 1:01:10 AM   
Kriegsspieler

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 12/3/2006
Status: offline 		I have another wonky thing about the RRU's to report. I have been playing the Leningrad scenario, in which the Germans get 2 RRUs that start the scenario attached to Army Group North. Try as I might, I cannot reassign those units to another HQ. Somehow, they always end up back with AGN. I tried returning them to the HQ after they had been deployed, but that doesn't work.

What am I missing here? Can they ONLY be assigned on the very first turn of the scenario/campaign?

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/29/2021 7:20:09 AM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		do you have SU assignment locked or automatic?

if its automatic they will be moved as the AI routines deems best (hence the return to AGN). If you want them to stay in a particular corps either go to fully manual SU control or assign them and then set the controlling HQ to locked so nothing is removed or assigned.

in the specific context of the scenario, AGN is probably not a bad choice actually ... different in the campaign when you have the full set and can pull them into a particular sector

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/29/2021 3:53:18 PM   
Kriegsspieler

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 12/3/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks, Loki, you have identified my problem, at least!
I would have to disagree about the desirability of leaving the RRU's with AGN, though. They spend their time repairing useless breaks in Kurland, for example.

But your comment about the desirability of leavng the RRUs with AGN has raised another question for me. Is there any weight given to where supplies are needed in determining where an HQ should send the RRUs? In my current game, I am using the AI assist to do things I don't want to bother with, like deploying air units from reserves and moving AOGs forward as the battle moves on. But one choice the AI made for moving the AOGs was to send several of them to Kurland, which is certainly closer to the front, but is otherwise off the beaten track. On the one hand, it is good to have the AOGs there, because they can draw supplies from sea transport and not overload the slender RR thread leading further north. On the other hand, AGN has decided that the RRUs can best be used repairing the RR network serving those air bases in Kurland. That really limits how efficienctly I can spread the rail net eastwards towards Pskov, among other place, and by turn 9 or 10 those limits are pretty devastating.

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/29/2021 3:57:40 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		yes the AI-assist is very supply aware, it will avoid supply poor regions and do its best to find a supply rich area that broadly links to the HQ it is following. So for AGN it will use near port supply for some time.

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/29/2021 4:15:23 PM   
Kriegsspieler

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 12/3/2006
Status: offline 		That's an answer to half of what I asked, but my primary interest was about how the AI determines where RRUs should be sent. Given that a bunch of AGOs have been sent to Kurland, does the AI then think, "Oh, I should improve the the rail links between those units and the rest of the army!" and dispatch RRUs to do that.

Because if so, I'm still going to put those RRUs elsewhere! They're wasting their (and my) time in Kurland.

< Message edited by Kriegsspieler -- 6/29/2021 4:16:23 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Rail repair units - 6/29/2021 4:34:39 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline 		ah, yes I avoided that one

my instinct is it picks (for the Germans in WiTE 1/2) the westernmost unrepaired hex in the feasible range for that HQ. Clearly it follows other rules to, but it seems to prefer E-W from the 41 borders.

I tested this to destruction in a vs AI game of WiTW. I put all the Allied RRU into SHAEF and it basically repaired from the western ports east (so once I took Bordeaux it started that line) and was pretty linear in its choices once my control of France became near total (it did odd things when I had broken up sectors).

So I think that is where it tends to go, but then it also does different things

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/29/2021 4:37:05 PM   
Kriegsspieler

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 12/3/2006
Status: offline 		Huh -- that's interesting. I'll keep an eye out for that for general guidance.
Thanks!

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/29/2021 5:21:50 PM   
Jango32

 

Posts: 307
Joined: 3/15/2021
Status: offline 		Any possible explanations why the AI sometimes sends out all of its rail repair units, but at other times only 1 out of 4, let's say? No hostile forces in the vicinity and the hexes in range of the corps HQ aren't fully stacked.

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/29/2021 7:36:09 PM   
juv95hrn

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline 		I am still confused about the Soviet NKPS rr-repair HQs. The Manual clearly states there is no manual way of attaching rr-repair SUs directly to them. Does this really mean its totally random if they will be useless (like one of mine currently is due to no attached units), if the AI decides to remove the units and not re-attach them? This seems less than desirable to say the least. Any workaround to get SUs into them? I have tried having it attached to Stavka, local HQs with RR-repair units, but no way of getting it functional.

Thanks!

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RE: Rail repair units - 6/29/2021 8:37:46 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juv95hrn

I am still confused about the Soviet NKPS rr-repair HQs. The Manual clearly states there is no manual way of attaching rr-repair SUs directly to them. Does this really mean its totally random if they will be useless (like one of mine currently is due to no attached units), if the AI decides to remove the units and not re-attach them? This seems less than desirable to say the least. Any workaround to get SUs into them? I have tried having it attached to Stavka, local HQs with RR-repair units, but no way of getting it functional.

Thanks!


well they arrive with the attached SUs that they need, the worst that will happen normally is these will take some losses (usually attrition) and need to be placed near a depot to refit (though I've never had to to this).

if you detach the SUs they can't be re-attached so in that case the FBD/NKPS is indeed an empty shell, but the SUs would need to be detached by the player

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