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Why no more metal mines?

 
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Why no more metal mines? - 6/29/2021 3:10:41 AM   
morganja

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/23/2005
Status: offline 		Is there something about Siwa class planets that means there is no metal? Except for other majors? This is getting ridiculous. Four games started, no metal mines anywhere in any of the starting or surrounding zones. But the other majors have them literally right next to their capital.
Except the latest start. 11 majors, 91 minors.....and a neighboring major capital literally three hexes from my capital city. With a metal mine right next to his city.

Can someone provide some planet generation advice that doesn't suck for new players? This is getting really old, really fast.
Are metal mines being phased out for players to create more of a challenge?
Post #: 1
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/29/2021 9:20:31 AM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		Difficulty level ?

Heavy metal % in the planetary crust ?

If not playing blind, any mining industries established on the planet during the GR era that would have depleted the metal spots ?

(in reply to morganja)
Post #: 2
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/29/2021 1:38:44 PM   
bvoid

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 5/16/2013
Status: offline 		It's supposed to be hardcoded to always give you a metal deposit, but the neighbouring major probably started too close.

Use the "spread out" option in latest beta to avoid this.

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
Post #: 3
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/29/2021 2:54:41 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlueTemplar

Heavy metal % in the planetary crust ?



where can I find the heavy metal % ?

is it possible to see it during planet creation?


To the OP: with higher difficulties, it is no longer guaranteed to have metal deposits near your city

But one or two "ruins" hexes should give you enough metal until you either expand enough to get regular mines, or research demetallization technology


< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 6/29/2021 2:55:14 PM >

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
Post #: 4
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/29/2021 7:26:47 PM   
BlueTemplar


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Joined: 4/29/2010
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quote:

where can I find the heavy metal % ?

Reports => Help => The first planetary statistics.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 5
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/30/2021 2:06:23 AM   
morganja

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/23/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks. I hadn't seen that before.
The planet had 145% heavy metals. I have found 8 oil deposits, 3 water deposits, and no metal deposits in close to 4 zones around my starting city.
The game before that, 140% heavy metals. I found 4 oil deposits, 2 water deposits and a rare metals deposit. No metal deposits.


Is that expected?

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
Post #: 6
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/30/2021 2:10:58 AM   
morganja

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/23/2005
Status: offline 		Double post

< Message edited by morganja -- 6/30/2021 2:11:16 AM >

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
Post #: 7
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/30/2021 5:32:33 AM   
Maerchen

 

Posts: 348
Joined: 6/16/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Once you researched metal soil filtration, metal mines become insignificant.

How is your Prospecting setting in the economic council, are you pushing BP into it in a sufficient ratio?

_____________________________

The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.

(in reply to morganja)
Post #: 8
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/30/2021 10:15:26 AM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline 		Metal Soil filtration does take a while to pay off, especially on planets with low heavy metal %.

More like : are there still any undiscovered mining spots left in your territory ?

And you still haven't answered the difficulty nor mining industries questions.

(in reply to Maerchen)
Post #: 9
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/30/2021 12:48:08 PM   
Uemon

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 12/11/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bvoid

It's supposed to be hardcoded to always give you a metal deposit, but the neighbouring major probably started too close.

Use the "spread out" option in latest beta to avoid this.


Only on easiest difficulty setting. Anything higher and you dont get a guaranteed metal deposit. AI majors always do >.< (edit: correction, now that i think about it, they dont always; i think it has to do with regime types, but sometimes AI majors dont get metal)

I actually suggested for this to be turned into map generating option.

< Message edited by Uemon -- 6/30/2021 12:50:06 PM >

(in reply to bvoid)
Post #: 10
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/30/2021 1:41:12 PM   
bvoid

 

Posts: 108
Joined: 5/16/2013
Status: offline 		I think it's related to tech level start at well. If you choose T1 you start with basically nothing! Not get a farm but not a water mine. It's a trap for new players, and annoying for experienced ones.

At T2 you start with a few mines, try that.

(in reply to Uemon)
Post #: 11
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/30/2021 3:13:10 PM   
morganja

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/23/2005
Status: offline 		Difficulty was one up from easiest. Normal I think? The zones were fully prospected. No more deposits to be found. Is 145% heavy metals low? It's just all four straight games I started since coming back, I have yet to find a single metal deposit in my starting or surrounding territories. Also what seems like a crazy amount of oil.

(in reply to bvoid)
Post #: 12
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/30/2021 6:57:02 PM   
Uemon

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 12/11/2020
Status: offline 		Whenever you generate a world that has plant life, there will be plenty of oil everywhere. Thats normal.

(in reply to morganja)
Post #: 13
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 6/30/2021 11:10:35 PM   
morganja

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/23/2005
Status: offline 		So am I doing things right, just unlucky? Or do I need to do different settings to get a metal deposit?

(in reply to Uemon)
Post #: 14
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 7/1/2021 10:27:29 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline 		The presence of free range metal mining spots depends on two things:
- how much heavy metal there is on the planet
- how much of it was mined out in the history
We once found a map with very few ruins, but most ruins were on another resource. Basically they had no time to mine it out before the cataclysm hit.
If you see a lone ruin hex in the wilderness, chances are high that used to be a mining town.

Regardless of that, Majors (including the player) do get 1 guaranteed Metal spot to work with. This is a nessesity of gameplay, as otherwise there would be no way to play the game.

(in reply to morganja)
Post #: 15
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 7/1/2021 10:57:56 PM   
Mercutio

 

Posts: 256
Joined: 12/26/2006
Status: offline 		I don't think that is true, my last game had 2 metal mines on something like 1/2 the planet. Nothing was near me at all. I had to use the scant ruins to get metal soil filtration just so I could build anything. Somehow I survived and finally thrived, but it took FOREVER.

(in reply to zgrssd)
Post #: 16
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 7/2/2021 12:35:39 AM   
zgrssd

 

Posts: 3385
Joined: 6/9/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercutio

I don't think that is true, my last game had 2 metal mines on something like 1/2 the planet. Nothing was near me at all. I had to use the scant ruins to get metal soil filtration just so I could build anything. Somehow I survived and finally thrived, but it took FOREVER.

The free metal mine for the player might be subject to difficulty settings. But I really think it should not be. Simply put, metal is way too important to be able to act at all.

In eihter case, the AI has no such issues. AI can not plan ahead, so it could never work itself out of such a hole.

< Message edited by zgrssd -- 7/2/2021 12:36:13 AM >

(in reply to Mercutio)
Post #: 17
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 7/2/2021 12:35:55 AM   
eddieballgame

 

Posts: 676
Joined: 6/29/2011
Status: offline 		dbl post

< Message edited by eddieballgame -- 7/2/2021 5:20:20 PM >

(in reply to Mercutio)
Post #: 18
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 7/2/2021 12:36:25 AM   
eddieballgame

 

Posts: 676
Joined: 6/29/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercutio

I don't think that is true, my last game had 2 metal mines on something like 1/2 the planet. Nothing was near me at all. I had to use the scant ruins to get metal soil filtration just so I could build anything. Somehow I survived and finally thrived, but it took FOREVER.


In order to be guaranteed a 'metal mine' at the the start, you must play on the 'Beginner Mode'.
The other settings will require some very good fortune.



< Message edited by eddieballgame -- 7/2/2021 12:37:47 AM >

(in reply to eddieballgame)
Post #: 19
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 7/2/2021 9:29:15 AM   
BlueTemplar


Posts: 887
Joined: 4/29/2010
Status: offline
quote:

The free metal mine for the player might be subject to difficulty settings. But I really think it should not be. Simply put, metal is way too important to be able to act at all.

In eihter case, the AI has no such issues. AI can not plan ahead, so it could never work itself out of such a hole.


An experienced player knows that he can upgrade his scavenger(s) to the max possible for the city size and rush soil filtration and/or territory to acquire more ruins and/or metal mines. (And buy as much metal from the market as is viable. And use the fate stratagems giving metal.)

But maybe normal difficulty should have a guaranteed starting metal spot too, just perhaps a smaller and/or harder to extract one ?

< Message edited by BlueTemplar -- 7/2/2021 9:30:33 AM >

(in reply to eddieballgame)
Post #: 20
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 7/2/2021 3:32:21 PM   
Wtface

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/28/2021
Status: offline 		You cant rush filtration, the minor next door may not have any and you may not have any scavenging assets beyond the city one which may only have a few thousand.

I'm all for lots of randomization but if your country didn't have a metal mine you wouldnt be a major power. I'd just separate resource balancing from "AI bonus amount"


< Message edited by Wtface -- 7/2/2021 3:33:00 PM >

(in reply to BlueTemplar)
Post #: 21
RE: Why no more metal mines? - 7/2/2021 4:10:00 PM   
Maerchen

 

Posts: 348
Joined: 6/16/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		You cannot directly rush Metal Soil Filtration, but you can nudge the scales to your favor. Only discovering with 1% researching, boosting mind profile and having a good counselor, BP production, relation with the corp and assets that boost research do help, as is pushing BP into economical council.

Starting at Tech III is recommended in this case, too, as the discovery diversity isn't as broad as it is at tech IV start, so you can research strategically.
If you can afford to neglect the military research for a while, you can do that, too to pump more BP into the economical council.

Once you discovered MSF, streamline everything to research it as early as possible.

FYI, here's the R&D guide. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2314732568

_____________________________

The logistics hell this game is IS the fun part! - Maerchen, 2020

The good thing is, we have all the information in the reports. The bad thing is, we have all the information. Maerchen, 2020

Came for SE. Will stay for SE.

(in reply to Wtface)
Post #: 22
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