Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

quote:

ORIGINAL: RoadWarrior
...

Loki don’t be so defensive and simply look at the results.

Gundam is basically mocking the whole system by having 1,000,000 men in reserve and still achieving an unhistorical great 41/42 winter. SHC does not need to defend Leningrad, black sea ports, planes or those 1,000,000 men. Just run at just the right speed, because of a poorly designed logistics system.

The current model is all about SHC running at the correct speed as Q-ball and I have talked about in PMs. It has zero to do with trucks and trains, player skills ect ect. If SHC runs at the correct speed you will get unhistorically low Russian loses and an unhistorical 41/42 winter SHC offensive which German army simply can’t recover from because it causes a feedback loop and than SHC is on a unhistorical offensive in 42. This running at just the right speed tactic is used because of special rules put on the Germans logistics system.

As AlbertN points out “ the issue is that hardly Germans can achieve historical results as of now - which should be the 'Average' of the game. How many Axis players get to Orel, Rostov, Kursk etcetera. And how many can also keep a good portion of these through the coming winter?”

This is all caused by special rules to the German logistics system. If the logistics system is so great why all the special rules that cause the game to be so unhistorical?

This will become more unhistorical and more boringly predictable as more and more AARs show players how to game the poor logistics model.

no body is being defensive, but I'd strongly suggest that its not the logistics system. I have a game to T12, I have 40 MP+ mobile units, 14+ infantry and can do very little with that asset.

The issue lies in the Soviet use of assault fronts, that solves their command problems, gets most units under good commanders, avoids the problem of how to rest and refit when on a strategic retreat, plus the movement and combat capacity to inflict serious damage.

play without that and you get the game we saw late in the beta, plenty of variation, plenty of instances of perfectly ok German players (like me) doing fine. I ran one test game into mid-42, did less well in the north, was running around the Caucasus, in other words the sort of situation you'd broadly expect to see.

You've done a good job so far of not being too Pelton like to raise no concerns ... thats something worth keeping up

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I agree with Q Ball there.

That is why I was already trying to push for reasons to make the Soviets struggle and fight - VPs and not ensured Factory migrations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I will say that in my game vs. RW as Soviets, I did not use any Assault HQ until November of 1941. In other words, all through the retreat phase. Red Army was fine by the end. RW is a very good opponent and I made some mistakes, and yet I still have a large Red Army that is giving him trouble I think in December of '41....I think he's going to have to give up alot of ground.

I think there's more than the Assault HQ, but good place to start

If Soviets can just avoid getting tons of units pocketed, that's all you really need to have a really strong Red Army by winter and rest of way

quote:

ORIGINAL: gundam1985

The Red Army is weak in 1941, many Soviet player stop the game before T13.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Granular VP diffusion makes fights for localized Cities a matter of 'prestige'.
Not just the BIG names of Cities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

@Aurelian

It is not about 'forcing the Soviet to play the way I want'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

@SmokingDave

As I suggested, VPs and Economics.

Make resources valuable for Germany late war, they may want to cling to them as long as possible.

Granular VP diffusion makes fights for localized Cities a matter of 'prestige'.
Not just the BIG names of Cities.