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Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/26/2021 5:40:19 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		I didn't exactly want to play the Soviets but figured why not. I am not your die hard Soviet fan either but I do play to learn the idiosyncrasies of the side. Current turn is in the hands of Rosencrantus and hope I don't "F" up the Soviet play being rusty again :(

Settings

* 1941 Campaign Standard
* Server Game
* FOG of War: On
* Movement FOW: On
* Lock HQ support: On
* Automate AI air assist: Off
* Enhanced Player TB control: On
* 1 Motorization for Germany in 41 (currently have standing rules on motorization in 42 and beyond but I am up in the air if I will use it myself. Will cross that bridge later in the game if I can survive)
* No Paratrooper drops



Post #: 1
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/26/2021 9:54:19 PM   
Rosencrantus

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 1/9/2021
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Honestly from what I've seen from this AARs is that if the Soviet player does not get wiped during the first five turns they usually do pretty well. Though I'm not sure if that is due to Axis strategies not being fully developed or anything but I have not seen a single close game AAR where Axis is doing as well as historical in 1941.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 2
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/26/2021 9:58:02 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I agree with Rosencratus here - it's either total obliteration (and in general that's due to Soviet player ineptitude more than else) or the Soviets having solid lines that fall back in good order and enlarge each turn.

(in reply to Rosencrantus)
Post #: 3
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/26/2021 10:55:58 PM   
loki100


Posts: 10920
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Utlima Thule
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

...
* No Paratrooper drops


why? They are much harder to generate than in WiTE1 and of marginal effect even if they do work. Is this some sort of WiTE1 legacy mindset or is there is a specific exploit you believe exists?

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 4
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/26/2021 11:02:33 PM   
Rosencrantus

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 1/9/2021
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I was not the one who suggested that rule but if paradropping is not very exploitable (as I never played against it before in the game) I'm more than happy to allow it to support plans.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 5
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/26/2021 11:06:21 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

...
* No Paratrooper drops


why? They are much harder to generate than in WiTE1 and of marginal effect even if they do work. Is this some sort of WiTE1 legacy mindset or is there is a specific exploit you believe exists?


I don't want to use them.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 6
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/26/2021 11:09:41 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

...
* No Paratrooper drops


why? They are much harder to generate than in WiTE1 and of marginal effect even if they do work. Is this some sort of WiTE1 legacy mindset or is there is a specific exploit you believe exists?


I don't want to use them.


I bet I can come up with a way to exploit them if I wanted to. I didn't want to spend the time on it and I like the divisions they make later.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 7
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 1:50:28 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosencrantus

Honestly from what I've seen from this AARs is that if the Soviet player does not get wiped during the first five turns they usually do pretty well. Though I'm not sure if that is due to Axis strategies not being fully developed or anything but I have not seen a single close game AAR where Axis is doing as well as historical in 1941.


You really can't wipe the Soviets in the first 5 turns. But the accumulation of what you do as Germany the first year will dictate the rest of the game.

The ultimate factor is player skill level. The higher the skill of the Axis player the harder the game for the Soviets. As a fledgling German I would get my VP's in the Center & South leaving the North alone except for Pskov, Tallinn, and Riga which I would take. Leningrad is a time sync & will take up considerable resources which will hurt all other fronts. If you are by chance able to take it then the future is promising but not written in you favor. Fail at taking Leningrad, well you can look at the majority of the games to see what happens.

(in reply to Rosencrantus)
Post #: 8
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 1:51:43 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I agree with Rosencratus here - it's either total obliteration (and in general that's due to Soviet player ineptitude more than else) or the Soviets having solid lines that fall back in good order and enlarge each turn.


Usually boils down to the difference between player skill level.

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 7/27/2021 1:55:35 PM >

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 9
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 2:06:46 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 1 Riga






Attachment (1)

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 10
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 2:07:41 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 1 North






Attachment (1)

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 11
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 2:08:50 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 1 Center Minsk








Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 7/27/2021 2:10:19 PM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 12
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 2:10:50 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 1 Center Brest




Attachment (1)

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 13
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 2:11:19 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 1 South Rovno




Attachment (1)

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 14
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 2:11:48 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 1 South




Attachment (1)

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 15
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 2:12:19 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 1 Ground losses






Attachment (1)

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 16
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 2:12:44 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Turn 1 Air Losses






Attachment (1)

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 17
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 2:14:50 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		Some of the pictures are "HUGE". Anyone have what they do to shrink the picture down so you don't have to scroll forever? Thank you in advance.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 18
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 3:03:14 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 2105
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline 		Paint.net is great freeware to manipulate image files. I really appreciate the layer tool for stitching together maps.

No pockets in the south? How many mountain division does that leave you with?


Edited to add: hotkey ‘y’ to flip to unit names for AAR shots.
I play with combat CV showing, but screenshots with unit names showing are nice for keeping track of enemy mech formations.

< Message edited by Seminole -- 7/27/2021 3:10:34 PM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 19
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 3:42:18 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

Paint.net is great freeware to manipulate image files. I really appreciate the layer tool for stitching together maps.

No pockets in the south? How many mountain division does that leave you with?


Edited to add: hotkey ‘y’ to flip to unit names for AAR shots.
I play with combat CV showing, but screenshots with unit names showing are nice for keeping track of enemy mech formations.


Thank you for the input with paint.net

No pockets & all mountain divisions are safe.


(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 20
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 3:43:39 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole

Paint.net is great freeware to manipulate image files. I really appreciate the layer tool for stitching together maps.

No pockets in the south? How many mountain division does that leave you with?


Edited to add: hotkey ‘y’ to flip to unit names for AAR shots.
I play with combat CV showing, but screenshots with unit names showing are nice for keeping track of enemy mech formations.


Thank you for the input with paint.net

No pockets & all mountain divisions are safe.




Of course I haven't done my turn yet other than take snapshots so some of the Mountain divisions may not be able to walk/run fast enough. Will have to see when I get back into the game.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 21
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 3:52:57 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		I don't like that opening for the Axis. It looks like he blew away all the border formations, but that means alot of fighting and not as much pocketing.

AGS is particularly bad.....I don't see any units pocketed in the South, and a clear path for you to withdraw the quality formations south of Lvov....there's even an intact rail line, so you can rail alot of units out of there, particularly the Mountain Units which are very useful long-term and you can't build more of.

Getting Rovno is nice, but a better idea is clearing the line through Proskurov, which is easy to do T-1. The terrain around Rovno is much better for defense, and pushing directly east doesn't buy him much

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 7/27/2021 3:54:40 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 22
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 4:10:08 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I don't like that opening for the Axis. It looks like he blew away all the border formations, but that means alot of fighting and not as much pocketing.

AGS is particularly bad.....I don't see any units pocketed in the South, and a clear path for you to withdraw the quality formations south of Lvov....there's even an intact rail line, so you can rail alot of units out of there, particularly the Mountain Units which are very useful long-term and you can't build more of.

Getting Rovno is nice, but a better idea is clearing the line through Proskurov, which is easy to do T-1. The terrain around Rovno is much better for defense, and pushing directly east doesn't buy him much


I am inclined to agree. I could be wrong, but I definitely think HLYA's openings in his other games were better.

Soviets should be able to rail quite a lot out from the south, and anything that they can't rail out they can simply transfer to reserves. Unless Soviets make a mistake, there should be pretty close to 0 divisions eliminated in the south on T2/3 (other than a few divisions that were routed on T1 and don't have MP to escape and can't rail out or transfer to reserves since they are unready/routed).

My guess is HLYA is going for Kiev and then north towards Kursk and on to Moscow or something. I guess we'll find out.

Likewise in the north/center, the advance is not as far (not even across the Berezina river in the center and barely across the Daugava in the north). That gives JubJub a lot of room and extra time to set up defenses, which could slow things down in the early turns if he can do things right.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 23
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 4:11:22 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		out of curiosity why lock hq ?

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 24
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 4:40:14 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

out of curiosity why lock hq ?


If you don't lock HQ, you basically hand support-unit distribution decisions to the AI. You don't want to do that.

_____________________________


(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 25
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 4:43:46 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I don't like that opening for the Axis. It looks like he blew away all the border formations, but that means alot of fighting and not as much pocketing.

AGS is particularly bad.....I don't see any units pocketed in the South, and a clear path for you to withdraw the quality formations south of Lvov....there's even an intact rail line, so you can rail alot of units out of there, particularly the Mountain Units which are very useful long-term and you can't build more of.

Getting Rovno is nice, but a better idea is clearing the line through Proskurov, which is easy to do T-1. The terrain around Rovno is much better for defense, and pushing directly east doesn't buy him much


I agree with you. I would personally surround some units. Now on the flip side of things I personally don't think anything in the South should be able to move by rail or be disbanded. But that is just me. Have I disbanded units in the south before, of course, but in my opinion the disband unit function is too liberal in use and should be farther than the front then now allowed.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 26
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 4:46:09 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beethoven1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I don't like that opening for the Axis. It looks like he blew away all the border formations, but that means alot of fighting and not as much pocketing.

AGS is particularly bad.....I don't see any units pocketed in the South, and a clear path for you to withdraw the quality formations south of Lvov....there's even an intact rail line, so you can rail alot of units out of there, particularly the Mountain Units which are very useful long-term and you can't build more of.

Getting Rovno is nice, but a better idea is clearing the line through Proskurov, which is easy to do T-1. The terrain around Rovno is much better for defense, and pushing directly east doesn't buy him much


I am inclined to agree. I could be wrong, but I definitely think HLYA's openings in his other games were better.

Soviets should be able to rail quite a lot out from the south, and anything that they can't rail out they can simply transfer to reserves. Unless Soviets make a mistake, there should be pretty close to 0 divisions eliminated in the south on T2/3 (other than a few divisions that were routed on T1 and don't have MP to escape and can't rail out or transfer to reserves since they are unready/routed).

My guess is HLYA is going for Kiev and then north towards Kursk and on to Moscow or something. I guess we'll find out.

Likewise in the north/center, the advance is not as far (not even across the Berezina river in the center and barely across the Daugava in the north). That gives JubJub a lot of room and extra time to set up defenses, which could slow things down in the early turns if he can do things right.


Well, I am the Soviets in this game ;-) You may be referring to my other game here which I am playing Germans & have yet to post my opening moves ;-)

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5054724

(in reply to Beethoven1)
Post #: 27
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 4:50:59 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

out of curiosity why lock hq ?


If you don't lock HQ, you basically hand support-unit distribution decisions to the AI. You don't want to do that.


I will unlock HQs on the first turn anyway if my opponent wants locked HQ's. This will get all my support units to Stavka(and OKH as Germans). The next turn, or turn 3 at the latest, I turn it off & lock HQ's with all support units there. I will then cherry pick my SU's based on front usage of where I am attacking or defending. This isn't for everyone but that is how I do it.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 28
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 5:09:33 PM   
Beethoven1

 

Posts: 754
Joined: 3/25/2021
Status: offline 		Ah yes, I got confused between the two threads, sorry!

I agree it is too easy to disband/transfer to reserve units. However, I am of mixed minds on whether Soviets should do it, because even when they do it, VPs in the south still basically always fall earlier than historical. I have yet to see a single AAR where Germany has failed to take e.g. Odessa and Kiev way before they historically fell, except for one or two where the Germany player was new and didn't know what they were doing and totally flopped everywhere from the get-go.

So I think, at least until that is hopefully eventually fixed, it is ok for Soviets to rescue troops from the south that realistically they probably should not be able to. But ideally, it should be harder to transfer/disband/rail out, but combine that with some changes that make it possible to delay a competent Axis player more in the south.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 29
RE: Motherland in Flames (Axis) Rosencrantus (Soviet) HLYA - 7/27/2021 5:18:24 PM   
Rosencrantus

 

Posts: 318
Joined: 1/9/2021
From: Canada
Status: offline 		This opening in the South worked pretty well for me in my other game. I'm testing it again this game.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 30
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