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Farewell - 8/5/2021 2:08:50 PM

Freyr Oakenshield

Posts: 541
Joined: 4/25/2014
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I just wanted to say that I'm quitting this forum for good.

I've just posted a thread about the game Power and Revolution and the thread was closed since this is allegedly a political game...

Well, I suppose, Erik Rutins et. al, you can also close most other threads about wargames on this forum, since they also involve politics; there is no warfare without politics, unless you only want us to discuss things like the size of the hexes on the gameboard. If so, then I don't know what you have this forum for then...

Some time ago (Dec, 2018), there was this scandal in the Apple's store when one of the Matrix/Slitherine games - Afghanistan '11 - was removed. In the words of Iain McNeil: "Apple have just pulled Afghanistan '11 from the app store because its got "people from a specific government or other real entity as the enemies". You mean like every realistic game ever.... and people wonder why we don't do iOS anymore" (Twitter). Well, I didn't realise then that stupidity would come here to this forum as well - that you would adopt nonsensical rules banning legitimate discussions about wargames. What you've done here is just like what Apple did with your game back then...

So, farewell! I quit as a protest against stupidity and nonsence. I might still appear on some game-related forums now and then, but never here.

Oh, and Erik, you can also close this thread since, clearly, it's about politics....

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Post #: 1

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 2:36:24 PM

MrRoadrunner

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You should have just left.

RR

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Post #: 2

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 2:42:49 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
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Maybe just quit your account for good.

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Post #: 3

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 3:10:59 PM

wodin

Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
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Hmmmm..seems an over reaction to me. Though I also think as the thread was about a GAME, which is one of many political sim games, I think maybe locking thread was an over reaction aswell.

Saying that surely there is so much more to chat about than depressing real life things.

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Post #: 4

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 3:24:27 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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Well, I took a look at the game and its entire focus appears to be current politics, pandemics and all. Discussing current politics has been against the rules of this forum for 15+ years. We tried it the other way at the start and it resulted in too many flame wars, too much need for moderation and thus too much time both taken away from staff who should be working on games and also too much division among the community.

The fact is our society is much more polarized and politicized now than it was then. My recent responses in the delta variant thread (which due to work I unfortunately didn't even see until it had run its course for a couple of days) seem to have been also seen as taking a political stand, when I expressed my personal opinion that the vaccines are safe and offered to discuss it via PM with anyone who disagreed. I see information that could save the lives of our community, when posted with factual citations and references as not political. Debatable on the merits, sure, but not political.

I realize some folks disagree and that my view on that has caused some to see me as political. Everyone who lives in this world and keeps up with events is political to some degree, and I'm not immune to biases or mistaken opinions, but I exercise all the care I can to avoid being political in my moderation. Threads are locked based on the rules, not on a moderator's opinions.

Really, I'm rooting for us all here, regardless of politics, against a virus that is real and dangerous. I can't express how much I wish good health and a great year to everyone on this forum and their families. I'm happy via PM or e-mail to share the basis for my opinions as far as the virus and the vaccines, but all I'd really like is for folks to try to keep debates here factual and specific rather than political and emotional. That delta variant thread could have remained open if it had stuck to that kind of debate, but realistically that was probably too much to hope for.

Discussing a game that is in its very subject about current politics though was never going to work out here. That's different from historical wargames where war and politics of course interrelate.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 8/5/2021 3:25:36 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 3:28:19 PM

RangerJoe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Hmmmm..seems an over reaction to me. Though I also think as the thread was about a GAME, which is one of many political sim games, I think maybe locking thread was an over reaction aswell.

Saying that surely there is so much more to chat about than depressing real life things.

Here are some:

Attachment (3)

_____________________________

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�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
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Post #: 6

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 3:44:27 PM

Greybriar

Posts: 1148
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

I just wanted to say that I'm quitting this forum for good....

Goodbye and good luck, Freyr.

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Post #: 7

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 4:37:09 PM

Lobster

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From: Third rock from the Sun.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

I've just posted a thread about the game Power and Revolution and the thread was closed since this is allegedly a political game...

I guess in a broad sense Black Sea is that. Anyway, good luck.

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Post #: 8

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 5:20:40 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster
I guess in a broad sense Black Sea is that.

Some of the Command expansions also deal with current political situations as a pretext for conflict scenarios. Frankly, that was a challenge that we did discuss internally as far as how to handle that in forum discussions, but it's also still a modern wargame that deals with a military conflict rather than a game that appears to be specifically and only about current politics, like the one linked above. I haven't played it, but that's certainly what the description seems to indicate.

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 8/5/2021 5:21:46 PM >

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 9

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 6:58:52 PM

Freyr Oakenshield

Posts: 541
Joined: 4/25/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Well, I took a look at the game and its entire focus appears to be current politics, pandemics and all. Discussing current politics has been against the rules of this forum for 15+ years. We tried it the other way at the start and it resulted in too many flame wars, too much need for moderation and thus too much time both taken away from staff who should be working on games and also too much division among the community.

The fact is our society is much more polarized and politicized now than it was then. My recent responses in the delta variant thread (which due to work I unfortunately didn't even see until it had run its course for a couple of days) seem to have been also seen as taking a political stand, when I expressed my personal opinion that the vaccines are safe and offered to discuss it via PM with anyone who disagreed. I see information that could save the lives of our community, when posted with factual citations and references as not political. Debatable on the merits, sure, but not political.

I realize some folks disagree and that my view on that has caused some to see me as political. Everyone who lives in this world and keeps up with events is political to some degree, and I'm not immune to biases or mistaken opinions, but I exercise all the care I can to avoid being political in my moderation. Threads are locked based on the rules, not on a moderator's opinions.

Really, I'm rooting for us all here, regardless of politics, against a virus that is real and dangerous. I can't express how much I wish good health and a great year to everyone on this forum and their families. I'm happy via PM or e-mail to share the basis for my opinions as far as the virus and the vaccines, but all I'd really like is for folks to try to keep debates here factual and specific rather than political and emotional. That delta variant thread could have remained open if it had stuck to that kind of debate, but realistically that was probably too much to hope for.

Discussing a game that is in its very subject about current politics though was never going to work out here. That's different from historical wargames where war and politics of course interrelate.

Regards,

- Erik

Ok, I accept that explanation, sound.

Also...,

I was moved to tears by these two guys:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greybriar

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

I just wanted to say that I'm quitting this forum for good....

Goodbye and good luck, Freyr.

and

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freyr Oakenshield

I've just posted a thread about the game Power and Revolution and the thread was closed since this is allegedly a political game...

I guess in a broad sense Black Sea is that. Anyway, good luck.

So..., I simply can't leave! Where else would I find such heartfelt sympathy and camaraderie?

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Post #: 10

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 10:46:16 PM

IslandInland

Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: offline

Freyr, you are still online and still here! Eff 'em all.

No one cares anyone way, least of all me and you. And everyone else.

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Post #: 11

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 10:56:03 PM

Platoonist

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Post #: 12

RE: Farewell - 8/5/2021 11:44:08 PM

IslandInland

Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
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TBH it is incredible that an innocuous thread about a Steam game from a long lineage of Steam games gets locked.

Eversim (a French software firm I think) have made a lot of games. I own a couple of them on Steam. They are clunky and hard to play but are legitimate games and reflect the zeitgeist. They are not political and make no judgement on anything really. CMANO or whatever the new version is called is about as political if not more so than the Eversim games.

A list of Eversim games on Steam.

https://store.steampowered.com/search/?publisher=Eversim

We are all becoming slowly nuts with what we can and can't say/write/discuss.

< Message edited by IslandInland -- 8/6/2021 12:00:31 AM >

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Post #: 13

RE: Farewell - 8/6/2021 12:14:52 AM

Rosseau

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The Eversim games always intrigued me, but the one or two I broke down and bought always disappointed me. And the Steam reviews are quite mixed. It doesn't seem the games can break out of the mediocre into the really good category. But that's just imho.

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Post #: 14

RE: Farewell - 8/6/2021 12:32:19 AM

IslandInland

Posts: 891
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: YORKSHIRE
Status: offline

Indeed.

There are not fantastic but they are like Civ but with modern geopolitics.

< Message edited by IslandInland -- 8/6/2021 12:33:25 AM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Farewell - 8/6/2021 7:47:43 AM

ncc1701e

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Last time I have tried one of their games, they were so many bugs that I decide not to buy another one.
This was a long time ago and it was called something like geopolitical simulator.

Maybe they have improved since then but I don't want to retest.

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Post #: 16

RE: Farewell - 8/6/2021 9:00:59 AM

ElvisJJonesRambo

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Why not make a sub-Forum with "No Snowflake Zone"?

< Message edited by ElvisJJonesRambo -- 8/6/2021 9:02:43 AM >

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Post #: 17

RE: Farewell - 8/6/2021 11:09:26 AM

RFalvo69

Posts: 1380
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From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
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As an aside, I do have the game ("Power and Revolution") and in its 2020 start the pandemic is optional for the very reason that not everybody wants to go through it again. There is a clear question about if you want it or not.

I played as Italy with the pandemic on and it was... unfunny, because, obviously it dominated everything in the game. Playing the 2020 start without the pandemic simply makes for a more varied and interesting game.

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Post #: 18

RE: Farewell - 8/6/2021 11:21:28 AM

Bamilus

Posts: 973
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From: The Old Northwest
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Cya

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Post #: 19

RE: Farewell - 9/5/2021 1:13:26 PM

ElvisJJonesRambo

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Never been to an Apple Store nor play that game mentioned above. It's just a phone.
Never played Afghanistan '11 game mentioned above, nor the new '21 flavor. Sounds fun. Maybe.

Cya dude, not sure what country you're in, but in the USA you have free speech via the 1st Amendment which can be done in public.

Is this website some Communist site or something?

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Post #: 20

RE: Farewell - 9/5/2021 1:33:52 PM

Aurelian

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

Cya dude, not sure what country you're in, but in the USA you have free speech via the 1st Amendment which can be done in public.

Is this website some Communist site or something?

Since you obviously never read the First Amendment, I'll put it below.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Last I looked, this forum is not the federal gov't. It's a private forum. When you joined you agreed to its rules.

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Post #: 21

RE: Farewell - 9/5/2021 1:39:37 PM

ElvisJJonesRambo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

Cya dude, not sure what country you're in, but in the USA you have free speech via the 1st Amendment which can be done in public.

Is this website some Communist site or something?

Since you obviously never read the First Amendment, I'll put it below.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Last I looked, this forum is not the federal gov't. It's a private forum. When you joined you agreed to its rules.

I do follow the rules.
No kidding, this is a private Forum. Not the solid ground of the USA.
Was informing the gentlemen, that in my Country, outside on the dirt, IN PUBLIC, not on private property, that right exist, so no need to bring it here.

Got anymore useful information for me, Sherlock?
Glad you're reading up on my Constitution.

_____________________________

Without Him, I could do nothing
Without Him, I'd surely fail
Without Him, I would be drifting
Like a ship without a sail

(in reply to Aurelian)

Post #: 22

RE: Farewell - 9/5/2021 1:41:10 PM

ElvisJJonesRambo

Posts: 1345
Joined: 2/6/2019
Status: offline

Off to _______, it starts at 11am. You're welcome to join, without a ______ too.

< Message edited by ElvisJJonesRambo -- 9/5/2021 1:42:59 PM >

_____________________________

Without Him, I could do nothing
Without Him, I'd surely fail
Without Him, I would be drifting
Like a ship without a sail

(in reply to ElvisJJonesRambo)

Post #: 23

RE: Farewell - 9/5/2021 3:35:01 PM

Aurelian

Posts: 3916
Joined: 2/26/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

Cya dude, not sure what country you're in, but in the USA you have free speech via the 1st Amendment which can be done in public.

Is this website some Communist site or something?

Since you obviously never read the First Amendment, I'll put it below.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Last I looked, this forum is not the federal gov't. It's a private forum. When you joined you agreed to its rules.

I do follow the rules.
No kidding, this is a private Forum. Not the solid ground of the USA.
Was informing the gentlemen, that in my Country, outside on the dirt, IN PUBLIC, not on private property, that right exist, so no need to bring it here.

Got anymore useful information for me, Sherlock?
Glad you're reading up on my Constitution.

No you don't always follow the rules as indicated by the warning you got recently. And your asking if this website is some Communist website or something indicates you need to read the lesson on the amendment

< Message edited by Aurelian -- 9/5/2021 3:58:13 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Farewell - 9/5/2021 6:25:09 PM

Rising-Sun

Posts: 2082
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From: Clifton Park, NY
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I did that to Paradox's Forum some years back, i didnt have any problem here.

Want to see worst? Check out Paradox's Forum!

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Post #: 25

RE: Farewell - 9/5/2021 6:25:24 PM

ElvisJJonesRambo

Posts: 1345
Joined: 2/6/2019
Status: offline

Maybe you have a career calling in Intellectual Technology Law. Hot market right now. Especially with NFT's around the corner. Web 3.0 gonna change alot of things. Could also teach Constitutional Law 101, Tort Law, Property Rights, etc.

Thanks for keeping up on my doings, regards.
-EJR

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Post #: 26

RE: Farewell - 9/5/2021 7:07:06 PM

Bamilus

Posts: 973
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: The Old Northwest
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rising-Sun

I did that to Paradox's Forum some years back, i didnt have any problem here.

Want to see worst? Check out Paradox's Forum!

Paradox is the absolute worst. Power hungry mods that ban you for nothing and since their forums (pre Steam) were the only way to get access to mods (and for some mods that aren't on Steam, it still is) you basically lost access to any mods because of that. Horrible company and they've gotten even worse since going public.

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Post #: 27

RE: Farewell - 9/5/2021 7:20:07 PM

AndySfromVA

Posts: 130
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I'm glad that there's a moderator who believes that wargames should be about the "art" of war first, and politics second (or third, or forth).

(in reply to Bamilus)

Post #: 28

RE: Farewell - 9/5/2021 9:53:40 PM

gamer78

Posts: 536
Joined: 8/17/2011
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I believe it is more about the community about who play these games than the mods, EX: for someone not effected with Afghan immigration then any war can be about some kind of 'art' or about tactics, but reality is about weapons in this century. Paradox is making games about earlier periods so they have an easier time in game development about politics I guess.

< Message edited by gamer78 -- 9/5/2021 9:55:32 PM >

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Post #: 29