Please fix the weather

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII: World at War >> Please fix the weather

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Please fix the weather - 8/24/2021 9:39:38 PM

LoneRunner

Posts: 202
Joined: 8/16/2020
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I think we need to continue our discussion of weather in WaW. The current system allows luck of shifting weather to be too big a factor in the game.

I've been involved in battles around Perm, in the middle of the USSR, during winter months, and watched the weather go from snowing during my turn, to clear and sunny during my opponent's turn, back to snow and mud in mine. And even when I've benefited from such weather shifts, I didn't like it.

In my current MP game, I've invaded France. The invasion was supposed to be supported by a large air armada in England. Nope. For the past two, three turns my fighters, tac air, bombers are sitting on the runways in pouring rain while USA units get massacred. Then to add insult to injury, during the last enemy turn, it rained in England and was clear in France, so German air pounded my troops while most of my fighter pilots played cards.

Seriously, let's fix the weather.

I suggest more graduated shifts in the weather. For example, rain leads to mud or rain and mud. Snow leads to frozen and on to mud or on to blizzard or back to snow. The shifts should not be huge where your turn is a blizzard and your opponent's turn is clear.

Rain and snow should not shut down air operations. Perhaps air operates at half effectiveness.

Maybe an occasional blizzard or typhoon/storm could completely shut down air. But it doesn't last more than a month.

Thanks for listening. I'm glad to hear your ideas.

Post #: 1

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/24/2021 10:29:13 PM

Mithrilotter

Posts: 216
Joined: 2/18/2016
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My preference is to have the same weather on both the Axis and the Allied turn. That way having the same weather will benefit or hurt both sides equally.

(in reply to LoneRunner)

Post #: 2

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/24/2021 10:51:33 PM

Elessar2

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Joined: 11/30/2016
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Except as has been discussed extensively it will not affect both sides equally (1st player will know the opponent's weather).

Simply link the two turns like adjacent zones are linked; presumably some code can be written to minimize the chance of the weather getting "stuck" in the same rut turn after turn (for both sides).

(in reply to Mithrilotter)

Post #: 3

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/25/2021 12:05:59 AM

Chernobyl

Posts: 444
Joined: 8/27/2012
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I like the idea of distinguishing between storms and light rain; blizzard vs light snowfall.

Perhaps aircraft can still fly in and out of light rain and light snow, but with reduced effectiveness and slightly fewer losses too. And reducing their flying spotting range to only their own hex would be cool too (difficult to find stuff in the rain).

It sounds like the main gripe is when you get your air force shut down completely several turns in a row.

You could also just load the RNG dice to make these ruts less likely for the same player.

< Message edited by Chernobyl -- 8/25/2021 12:07:42 AM >

(in reply to Elessar2)

Post #: 4

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/25/2021 1:59:26 AM

redrum68

Posts: 1202
Joined: 11/26/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

Except as has been discussed extensively it will not affect both sides equally (1st player will know the opponent's weather).

Simply link the two turns like adjacent zones are linked; presumably some code can be written to minimize the chance of the weather getting "stuck" in the same rut turn after turn (for both sides).

This is true though you could balance the game around the fact that one side always knows the weather first. I've played a few games where that is the case and usually Allies get the benefit of knowing the weather since they are the defender in most fronts for most of the game.

(in reply to Elessar2)

Post #: 5

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/25/2021 4:04:20 AM

Unfortunate Son

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Joined: 11/30/2016
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I would like to see the weather actually move from zone/area to the next zone/area much like actual weather patterns move across the globe.

Ex: It's raining in Western Europe, England and France. Then the next turn the rain moves into Central Europe, Germany and Poland. Next turn it's raining in Soviet Union unless its fall and it changes to snow in the Soviet Union.

Then you can predict the weather as to when and where it will rain.

My 2cents

< Message edited by Unfortunate Son -- 8/25/2021 4:05:30 AM >

(in reply to redrum68)

Post #: 6

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/25/2021 4:34:11 AM

OldCrowBalthazor

Posts: 1108
Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Unfortunate Son

I would like to see the weather actually move from zone/area to the next zone/area much like actual weather patterns move across the globe.

Ex: It's raining in Western Europe, England and France. Then the next turn the rain moves into Central Europe, Germany and Poland. Next turn it's raining in Soviet Union unless its fall and it changes to snow in the Soviet Union.

Then you can predict the weather as to when and where it will rain.

My 2cents

Yeah..this is good. With WitE, for example, weather works this way. I remember a match where it was January...and a big section of the NE corner of Russia was frozen and clear. This moved down SE over 2 turns and hardened the snow and mud so the ground was concrete. I watched that system roll in and used that to plan a counter attack with the 1st Panzer Army around Kharkov. They had been stuck for two months. It was the break I needed and had some foreknowledge that the probability was high that this Siberian Express would move in.

Not sure if the game engine could be adapted to this way of handling weather...but zonal movement through time would be cool. Weather forecasting was a huge thing in WW2..even though it was more rudimentary than today.
A good example of how strategically important weather forecasting was were Allied operations to destroy German outpost weather stations on Jan Mayan Island and Svalbard way up in the Arctic. Those places and others became key for the Allies..as they could measure the weather as it moved through and on towards Europe.

Yeah..zonal movement with variability of weather is an interesting idea.

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(in reply to Unfortunate Son)

Post #: 7

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/25/2021 5:56:04 AM

pjg100

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Much of the angst around this issue could be addressed by simply reducing the impact of bad weather on air operations.

(in reply to OldCrowBalthazor)

Post #: 8

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/25/2021 8:55:01 AM

Marcinos1985

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quote:

the weather go from snowing during my turn, to clear and sunny during my opponent's turn, back to snow and mud in mine.

That's pretty important. On Eastern Front, in weather zone 39 (Ukraine up to Stalingrad) it's entirely possible to get clear weather in middle of Winter, and then weather can turn into deep snow a turn later. Hard to imagine.

Weather was discussed quite recently, I think devs got a lot of info from other topics. Letting aircraft fly at reduced effectiveness was one of common suggestions, making bad weather worse was an other. I was pretty surprised when I found in the manual, that mud reduces AP's, but combat effectiveness only of planes. So if there is a frontline on Easten Front, Soviets will take a beating even if there is mud. I thought attacking in mud is at least as hard as during frozen weather, it;s hard to move those tanks you know. But apparently it's not the case. So Allied player should strive to have some buffer zome between him and Germans, because otherwise his troops will be vulnerable.
Generally I think that if Winter "worked right", so was harsh enough to suspend fighting for both sides, USSR would have some time to recover losses and prepare resistance. But currently USSR takes additional (albeit smaller) beating in Winter too, and then spring comes and gangbang is harder than in 1941.

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(in reply to pjg100)

Post #: 9

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/25/2021 10:38:00 AM

EarlyDoors

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From: uk
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Personally i love the weather - it makes the game harder and less predictable
Quite happy to take it on the chin and move on
But I also understand the concerns of everyone here

If I were fortunate to program this game I'd advocate a % based likely outcome
I'm pretty certain that it currently uses randomised % outcome based upon zone and season
So for instance the Southern Uk in Winter may have 50% chance of no-fly

What i'd look to do is adjust those % based upon what went before

So for instance
For UK
In Winter
If first 3 turns had produced no-fly
then next turn would have less than 50% chance of no-fly

And vice versa

Very often IRL we get the same weather but at different times
like if early spring is dry then late spring will be wet

So the amount of rain will be the same year after year but its timing might be slightly adjusted

It should stop those game situations where one year southern russia may be 6 turns clear then next year its six turns snow

As to whether beneficial weather falls on your or your opponents turn? Well, thems the breaks

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(in reply to Marcinos1985)

Post #: 10

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/25/2021 12:00:04 PM

Taifun

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From: Spain
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As mentioned earlier, the weather in this game could be really frustrating. I experienced myself the misery of continuous rain several turns while my opponents could use their Airfores... But what I think that should be fixed is the weather in the USSR. You can't get clear in the middle of the winter. The weather should be at least frozen/mud from November-March.

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(in reply to EarlyDoors)

Post #: 11

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/25/2021 10:51:28 PM

Mithrilotter

Posts: 216
Joined: 2/18/2016
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Perhaps under War Maps, there could be an additional map for the individual weather zones. Then clicking on each weather zone could give a probability of the likely weather for the next two turns for that zone.

(in reply to Taifun)

Post #: 12

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/27/2021 5:13:31 PM

LoneRunner

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Joined: 8/16/2020
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I think the problem with weather in WaW is that it's all or nothing, either it's clear and you can conduct air operations or it's rain, snow, dust and you can't. A blanket shutdown of air doesn't make sense. It doesn't rain all day, every day of a month (except in Liverpool). Dust storms don't last for weeks. Even in Russia it doesn't snow every day. Even in the frozen hell at the gates of Moscow, German air conducted feeble operations.

As a result of extreme restrictions of weather a good portion of the game is based purely on luck. You get the weather you need or you don't. My current MP game is a case in point. Turn after turn my carrier fleet waited off the coast of North Africa for the rain to clear over Italy. For two months the rain cleared during the Axis turn. Axis air pounded Allied troops clinging to Sicily. Then rain returned for the Allied turn.

Suddenly the rain stopped and the Allied fleet destroyed five Axis bombers. All or nothing. I just finally got lucky.

(in reply to Mithrilotter)

Post #: 13

RE: Please fix the weather - 8/27/2021 10:30:21 PM

ElvisJJonesRambo

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Joined: 2/6/2019
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We all get ticked over weather. Some rain around Island Brothers that you're ready to whack. Sandstorms in Egypt. Then of course, being on the edge of the wrong side of weather.

Best defense in SC-WAW, please give me rain/snow/sand.

(in reply to LoneRunner)

Post #: 14