RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> After Action Reports >> RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 12:32:34 AM

AlbertN

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Personally I feel more is needed than just that - and the 'Assault HQ' change depends on how it is made since it can have an amount of variegation.
But right now everything is blanketed by 'Assault HQ' it seems. The excess of AP that Soviets have, the free disbanding, etc ... (Given I'd not mind a return to WITE1 level of AP Costing to switch stuff from this Army / Corp unless they're Stavka or OKH located / assigned - that works both ends).

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 12:39:22 AM

Rosencrantus

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I can understand your viewpoint. There are certainly more things to be tackled in this game, but assault HQ is clearly the most important one.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 2:24:18 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosencrantus

The only real issue with the previous public beta was the fact that escort fighters were sometimes charged more miles and suffered more op losses.

I don't really think there are that many balance issues in the GC 41 aside from the assault HQs and the capability for units to attack and still use admin movement, which is getting patched out I believe. Even then, I believe the axis are still capable of more or less achieving historical levels of success (in terms of territory).

Once the Assault HQ is addressed(for both sides) I think more games should see historical levels. As it is right now I would say, "not possible at all" on equal opponents. On unequal opponents yes.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 2:35:48 AM

HardLuckYetAgain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

This is not the one against Seminole! But .07 has other issues.

Tbh at this stage I'd just wait for a patch to fix the Assault HQ and a few other bits that from my perspective screw the balance. I'll prolly lose both games at the Victory Points at the first check and that's it.

Ya, I talked about the VP's in the Beta. It won't be changed even though I believe it may help in the run-away strategy. So I really don't converse much on it since it falls on death ears.

Really the real problem is that Germany is short 1 FBD from me studying it. I wish we could split an FBD down and work slower than the Corps ;-) There is just so much rail to convert and if you take a great deal of territory your trucks get eaten up like candy on clearance.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 3:17:09 AM

Rosencrantus

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What I usually do with the FBDs is after repairing up enough in the North where Axis gains is going to be a few hexes a turn, i send the FBD 4 to do repair to Velikie Luki then either gomel-bryansk or gomel-kursk. With the slower pace of advance in the north T6+ using the support repair units is sufficient for getting rail repair done in a timely fashion.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 3:28:39 AM

Rosencrantus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rosencrantus

The only real issue with the previous public beta was the fact that escort fighters were sometimes charged more miles and suffered more op losses.

I don't really think there are that many balance issues in the GC 41 aside from the assault HQs and the capability for units to attack and still use admin movement, which is getting patched out I believe. Even then, I believe the axis are still capable of more or less achieving historical levels of success (in terms of territory).

Once the Assault HQ is addressed(for both sides) I think more games should see historical levels. As it is right now I would say, "not possible at all" on equal opponents. On unequal opponents yes.

Actually the more I think about it, yeah, for equal opponents the Axis might still get Orel, Kursk, Kharkov but not Kalinin or nearly Tula like historical.

And definitely not Khimki.

< Message edited by Rosencrantus -- 9/6/2021 3:29:38 AM >

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 10:58:49 AM

AlbertN

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The question is 'can also they keep these places through the Winter'?

Because Orel, Kursk and Kharkov were all kept.

I concur the rail conversion is far too small for Axis as well. There is just one single track in general around. RAD units are far too few. And there are bazillion of Construction Units sitting in the HQs doing ... pratically nothing or if kept in Corps HQ digging trenches to be abandoned as one moves on.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 11:33:47 AM

AlbertN

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T5 - AGS longs for Vengeance but...

Air Recon will soon need to be toned down, losses due to OPs are still extremely taxing for air recon.

But right now an increased effort was made in intensity trying to discover the Soviet formations that may still linger in the zone.

Given, with slow infantries, most of the armoured units 'cut off' by the Soviet maneuver capability - the Axis is already short of punishing capability in the sector.

What the Axis can conjure up is to be seen but right now it seems the 'majestic' pocket guarded by a whole Panzergruppe revealed itself to be a grand trap for the Germans.

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< Message edited by AlbertN -- 9/6/2021 12:23:50 PM >

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 12:30:03 PM

AlbertN

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T5 - Odessa Sector

This is a post movement image. I think the Soviets do not have grand assets there, just a screening force to ZoC the river.

But the Germans lack the movement points to do anything.
As experienced by other players already, this is the agreed march to the East where Soviets leave space, exploit German movement and logistic constraints til the Soviets can just build up nicely and merrily.

Til now the Army Group Antonescu pratically had picnics, with barely any fight past T2.

Presently the grand narrative of Barbarossa is 'Soviets fight when and where they want, they dictate the grand strategy the Axis has to follow'.
My opponent obviously play well there (I do not agree on leaving Objective Cities empty but otherwise all is good!). With nothing to lose on Soviet end, and pratically nothing to gain on German end besides a handful of VPs that ruling out an automatic Victory, it will just be a virtual pool of score serving nothing to stem out the later Soviet tidal wave (in War in the Pacific at least Japan could use facilities and resources captured and needed them).

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 12:38:18 PM

Beethoven1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

T5 - Odessa Sector

My opponent obviously play well there (I do not agree on leaving Objective Cities empty but otherwise all is good!).

You say objective "cities" ...

Well, that is actually probably the biggest problem with Odessa. Odessa is not a city... It is clear terrain. Clear terrain is pretty much indefensible given the combat engine against a sufficiently large enemy attack.

If Soviets are supposed to meaningfully be able to defend Odessa, then it needs to not be clear terrain. It should be urban, or at least a city. If that means the fort level has to be over, then it should be. But any defense of Odessa is basically instant death from the Soviet perspective currently.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 12:43:32 PM

AlbertN

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Odessa is definitely a City on my screen.

I've seen few Soviet division skyrocket to 100+ nominal CV in defence in Odessa without problem and had to siege it, with sea interdiction and all.

The tooltip is manifest that it's City and not some Clear terrain like any hex around it.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 12:53:29 PM

Beethoven1

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Ah, you are right. I think it used to be clear, maybe it was changed in a patch (unless I am imagining it). With it being city now it is a lot more worthwhile to put units in it.

In any case though, Soviets should always at least keep the coastal guns that start in Odessa and not abandon those, because if there is a battle (even just against the fort) then more population will get evacuated from the city and they will end up with more manpower. So it was definitely a mistake of the Soviets to leave it TOTALLY undefended.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 1:02:33 PM

AlbertN

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T5 'Vengeance' desires frustrasted

Some tactical musings.

The Air Recon did the good thing to identify a Soviet HQ - that I wonder if that is the one that commands the whole armoured bandwagon in the zone.

Alas I am not able to attack it. German assets are low on fuel and in general low in nominal combat capability.

That HQ is behind a river, and beyond the reaches of my troops. The 60 MD is the only really mobile unit I retain presently with well over 30 movement points.

Two of the Panzer divisions have roughly above 50% of their TOE in operational status - since they got the mauling. And their Movement Points are well under 20 (One of them has 11 MP so pratically useless as armoured formation).

From one side I am tempted to follow the way of HYLA - though knowing I am a far shot from them - and if I well deducted I could take that yellow circled town, and then try to shove westward some of the Soviet formations and pocket them again.
On the other side, my mind is thinking 'Do not pocket because you will get hammered again and you will lose two more Panzer divisions'.

So the trivia is 'To pocked and get destroyed, or to attack straightforward and see the Soviets get away with minor losses' (For their production at least).

It just seems a Lose-Lose situation.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 1:47:37 PM

AlbertN

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T5 - Vengeance?

It just seems I've remade the previous pocket, a bit better due to Infantries slipping in, but with less stuff pocketed.

All in all a perceived gain on Soviet end, assuming they won't turn it in a new triumph.

Some German formations are quite exhausted as well and low on combat factor -but- I've to commend the Romanian Armoured Division (bolstered by a SS Motorized Brigade!) and in team with the mobile Motorized division managed to dislodge that HQ, rout its escorting Mech division and capture Soviet General Malinovsky, the name suggests me nothing and that HQ was a Rifle Corps HQ...

The German scouting formations failed to find any significant Soviet armoured force in the surroundings except a large chunk by Kiev.
If these are the ones that also attacked me previously - they surely got to a very far and distant safety from any retaliation.
A stack of 3 formations of mobile type tallying 5 CV sounds like a Soviet formation that spent CCPs, moved a lot and got some damage!

Hungarians and Slovaks gave grand victories to enemy formations that resisted their assaults...

Thoughts on Admin Movement.
Some already forwarded the notion elsewhere - but I am starting to develop the idea that Admin Movement should be tied to troop quality (and I still rest in my case Axis troop quality late war is way too low) AND proximity of significant enemy units (ie, the presence of a regiment won't hinder a division or a depleted division won't affect a vigorous TOE division).

Admin Movement is conceptually some rearline movement, across pratically safe regions where units can afford not to march in combat formation and all.

The WITE1 model of movement in enemy hexes (start of turn, enemy controlled) tied to Morale was quite excellent as well.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 2:13:02 PM

AlbertN

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T5 - Chernigov Sector

Arriving infantry relieves the encirclement at Chernigov.

No ulterior advance is made there due to shortage of forces, of fuel, and significant arrival for Soviet forces set in swamps and behind river.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 2:46:26 PM

AlbertN

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T5 AGN - Sitzkrieg

After the mauling there the still routed Elite Lehr Brigade and the Pz. Regiment are set in a big airfield and get Air Supply.

Numbers at hand, the shoddy 1-2 Attack strong Soviet division, in thick forest and good, is as valuable as your crack Panzer Division.

At times these numbers can be illusory - that is for sure. But it's a depressing sight in general.
Given, your supposedly exhausted German unit, in thick forest, suddenly skyrockets to 60 nominal CV ... without forts.

That is the nominal value of that single MOT Division in point.

Encirclements here are pratically impossible, the infantries are catching up and in general Germans are far too weak to push, encircle and not get the encirclement open I feel.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/6/2021 3:06:27 PM

AlbertN

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T5 - AGC, Sitzkrieg continues

Smolensk is conquered. It should be a grand victory - for T5! In general it's T10 for me.
In truth the Soviets evacuated it pratically and left there a single division. So 3 German IDs stormed it and made a good job.

That is the whole of the relevant positive notions.

The armoured forces maneuvered, attacked, retreated some - routed some more.
No grand strategic result desired was achieved (Pocketing 4-5 units). Swamps and rivers shielded the Soviets, and now I've a MOT Division overly exposed, and a PZ regiment.

The SS troops failed to adequately maul the mighty Soviet armoured reserves in the region - but these Soviets were behind rivers, and in swamps. Ready to pounce out of the 'defensive locations', hammer, and with post haste regain a safe posture behind entrenched infantries and in impervious terrain.

I feel I am getting redundnt with that underlining of Soviet capabilities! It is just the perception that imbues me through the turn whole.

Air Supply on the way to Smolensk after fighters gets rebased there!

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 12:38:14 PM

AlbertN

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T6 Starts - Enemy Action:

Preliminary note - with brief exchange of in-game note, my opponent told me they have only 1 Assault HQ presently in function as they've not found the APs for.
I'd give top priority if I was Soviets to put as many as Assault HQ on that. It is 20 AP, Soviets get 25 per turn! And I believe they start with 1 already on Assault.
As Axis I need to repair stuff and whatnot, and simply I'd rather delay that to have in T1 and T2 2 extra Army HQ so much that mechanic is rigged.

Anyhow - the Soviets play heavy handed in air power in the North.
But I migrated fighters there already and that is felt.

The mechanics - or better the 'outcomes' of strategic bombing are currently eluding me greatly though.
I wish there was some clarity there.
It's not that hard to 'show pre-bombing railyard damage %' and write ... 'how much % the bombers inflicted'.
If it was damage 70 and the first bombing did 3% and the second bombing 9% (for instance)then I'd know I go to 80% damage and in my logistic phase it gets repaired some ... dang I get to 77% I've it right now.

Simplicity and clarity there.

Instead I see numbers that I cannot wrap my mind around. But I am faulty here of not having checked the manual in depth yet on that aspect. Maybe it is explained there.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 12:43:08 PM

AlbertN

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T6 - Soviet Attack

Here I was doing a small test - to leave a bait unit with a lot of antitank guns.

I was expecting a potentially stronger attack that would have mauled it - but costed 50% of the CCPs of the enemy (Working in the assumption of the double Assault HQ).

Considering the losses I am not to complain to have somehow worn off the valiant defenders of Velike Luki. Hopefully I will wrap it this turn. But recon still to happen.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 12:48:40 PM

AlbertN

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T6 - Soviet Action, Smolensk Night Bombing

Fighters, despite being right there, were instructed to fly only by daylight (Til NJs arrive!)

Somehow the Soviets exterminated the Smolensk remaining population? (100% damage on Manpower? I still do not know how to read that number).
The night OPs losses are double than what the flak inflicts.

Bombing run nr.2 supposedly went to bomb some farmlands around Smolensk (no % of damage shown at least), and inflicted a bit smaller amount of losses.

Smolensk Railyard damage is 91%, and Manpower 88% (After my logistic phase).
AA and Construction units on the way. (Well AA will come in the form of a HQ sitting there)

Also not related to the Soviet activity Axis product filled up some the staggering theathers!

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 12:52:42 PM

AlbertN

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Start of T6 - For Metrics sake!

Air Losses til now.
I will tone down the Recon as the fronts stabilize some to mitigate on OPs losses.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 12:56:46 PM

AlbertN

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T6 - Ground Metrics

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 1:19:53 PM

AlbertN

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Refit Test

The 16th Panzer will be kept for this turn static on Vinnitsa - that will get rail connection, a mostly repaired Railyard.
Attached to its Army HQ directly that will be kept there with Flak to be allocated.

While this is not Poland itself, I want to see how many Panzer replacements I can get there.

I understand supplies must also get to the fighting units - but surely some tanks can be shipped too all along.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 1:39:47 PM

AlbertN

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T6 - Insignificant Experiments

The Hungarian Mobile Corps has been shifted under the leadership of the VIII Hungarian Corp. (Who is a better leader).
Admittedly they could just go as well under a German leader and occupy some more space. (Which anyhow happens already at Army Level if you do...)

I am trying to 'cultivate' these units. Right now exhausted and a bit understaffed in personnel, they have cleared an amount of Soviet stuff there that was pocketed.

The idea is to have somehow viable mobile forces to supplement the German ones.
Notice all these units are labelled as Elite (That means their National Morale has a +15, ontop of the +5 for non being vanilla infantries). That sets these hungarians to be at 65 baseline National Morale.

I reinforced them with German SUs (Motorized Machinegun Battallions and AA) to bolster them some, and then pushing their morale up by giving them victories. (The Hungarian leader there has also 6 in Morale. So easier to get morale credit I think for victories). One of the MOTs is already at 75 morale.

I just do not know if the Hungarian production can keep these units adequately combative once they get in more intense fights and not mopping up of pockets! - Right now they're just a shadow of themselves with 5 combats or so this turn and enormous fatigue!

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 2:21:40 PM

AlbertN

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T6 AGS

I did a grandtotal of 0 air recon there.

There were units visible from previous turn in a nice and cute line, I had a pocket to clean and was close enough to Kiev to know where the enemy will be.

I gave a grand rest to my Recon Pilots in the zone.
Pushed Slovak Recon onward, set them on Supreme and Absolute Priority for replacements. (I made a point already elsewhere, about Slovaks having a hundreds of airframes in the pool. And all their air units will get disbanded somewhen. And won't get more. Make intense use of them before they go forever! The Slovaks still get Heinkels and the like that they won't be able to use at all.)

Said that - the initial plan was just to get idle, the Soviets are quite out of reach, the armoured units are spent barring a few, etcetera.

That's how my turn starts. Shy advancing, and setting infantries to regain CCP for the Dnepr storming and crossing.

But ground scouting probing the Soviet lines visible unveil a grand amount of rabble. 1-1 Formations of various echelons and type.
Seen as an opportunity - but unable to pocket anything big and sizeable - the Axis go for an amount of push-and-shove attacks that fatigues the Axis, stings them, cost some AFV, but also pound the Soviets.
The only good formation spotted, a 3-3 stack of armoured units, is wrapped around.
Mostly some of the mauled panzer formations in the zone that dropped under 75 morale (with a baseline of 85!) were upped up some, even if German AFV persist in being brittle. (I still rest in my case there is something iffy there)

The booty is measly there - but it's something.
This time though if the Soviets are to attack me, I've rather fresh infantries ready to pounce just behind if they linger around.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 2:39:15 PM

AlbertN

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T6 'Game Tricks'

By the first looks, the first 'hasty attack' there seems suicidal.

But for who has not noticed (hard to miss admittedly) the values of an enemy unit do not update.

The two infantries there with the mobile forces adjacent were in the Swamps earlier, and got attacked by the 3 Divisions that you see at the end of the movement right there.

The question now is if to risk more Panzers or not for this attack.
The Soviet formations in the zone are quite strong from my perspective and the pointe in that direction seems mildly stalled still!

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 2:48:16 PM

AlbertN

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T6 - Of Illusions

To be on the safer side I favored to bring also the GD Regiment along the Panzer. Which ought to have enough move to ZoC the other retreat.

First the attack of the Panzer + GD netting the above result. (numbers shown at tooltip are same of the MOT attack shown above).

The GD moved in and proceeds to ZoC and then the MOT attacks ... on the 'paper' (tooltip) before the attack it is a 1:2 attack - suicidal pratically.
But as said the Soviet numbers do not compute the damaged stuff and disruption and all that the previous combat inflicted.

(Again it is not rocket science, if a unit retreats post combat and its on map shown values are unchanged - there is something iffy. But this is the 'good iffy' as per it makes sense, we know its original status and condition and not in which shape the enemy unit retreated!)

Now to adjust and tinker to secure that single division pocketed there.

Using the Major River as my own 'flank guard' against the migthy Soviet armoured formation there - that I fear it is just the tip of a potent lance!

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 3:11:50 PM

AlbertN

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Refit Test Update

Having seen that in Chelm there is a HUGE depot of Freight sitting there, I decided to issue the 16th Panzer from Vinnitsa (where it'd have taken 'stuff' for other units) and not burden with Panzer Refit the whole rail.

Ontop of that - the 6th Army is Assault mode, the Army leader has 7 in Admit.
That should offset with ease the penalty of change of chain of command.

Obviously this is a rather 'ahistorical' way of doing things, since a Panzer Division wastign fuel back to Poland and then back to the Front is ... not something that would realistically happen at all. They'd just get stuff at the frontlines.

Feeling anyhow my Opponent is retreating with haste I know in the South it's not about fighting power but logistic hamstring.

Edit: A Light Infantry Division will be reassigned to normalize the Chain of COmmand and bring it to 44/45 instead of 46/45.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 3:32:48 PM

AlbertN

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T6 AGN

That is one of the headaches.

Simple as - it turns into a trench war. A nightmare to be that is push and shove and the Axis do not have enough forces for.

I wonder if it's simply best to regiment down Infantry divisions, shape a perimeter and be content with what I got - and push further toward Moscow.

Probably this is the 'biggest' risk a Soviet player has BUT for all I can see, there is abundance of troops anywhere I look.

The attack shown seems 'good' to me, the Soviets tucked in swamp terrain armoured formations and 3 Infantry Divisions attacked at once.

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RE: AAR vs Opponent Nr.2 - 9/8/2021 3:43:10 PM

AlbertN

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T6 - AGN

I thought to have a solution - but it backfired greatly.

Push and shove, push and shove, inway was made as the Motorized divisions pursued - and pounded on the formations that were dislodged by the infantries.

That was good!

Then the panzer arrives, sneaking around like rogues, behind the enemy lines!
And suddenly the Soviet valiant infantry division in the Light Woods saves the day! (I admit I may have swapped around that Pz Korp from the 3rd to 4th PzGruppe but I am not sure that would have made it!)

I had the opportunity to 'half pocket' 5 divisions (I feel the Soviets would have liberated them but for once it was them to attack in bad terrain!

In virtue of bad terrain here it's the only sector where for now I regiment some infantry troops. (Ontop of the vibe that I mauled the main enemy armoured formation there).

A smoked chance for the Germans.

Combat Note: Air Support once again ... rather insignificant.