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Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/7/2021 4:12:35 PM   
Nowi Ribak

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 10/30/2011
From: Austria, Europe
Status: offline 		Hi,
have a few questions, dont find a lot on the forum with the search function, so I bundled them together:

1) the right altitude for a specific air mission
offensive CAP vs defensive CAP, naval attack dive vs torpedo bombers etc - any guide out there? I test a lot but apart from the 6k feet barrier I am no wiser

2) cargo on 0 port islands
which ships can pick it up? and how?

3) guide for naval invasion
am currently playing june 42' and slowly preparing my first major offensive (to no wonder in the Solomons ...)
what to do when in which order? I am still planning and would love some guidance.

I am sure some of you veterans can help me out :-)
Btw absolutely great game, best € per h value of anything relating to entertainement

Thx in advance, BR
Post #: 1
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/7/2021 4:35:28 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Two threads to look to for answers:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2382494

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

Torpedo bombers drop their torpedo ordinance at 200 feet no matter the altitude that they fly in at.

CAP altitude varies depending upon the defensive target and the attacking aircraft so there is no set answer.

A 0(0) port has no port so it is best to pick up units with an amphibious TF.

As far as invasion go, that also depends upon the target, what is defending the target, and what you have available that is prepared for the target.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Nowi Ribak)
Post #: 2
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/7/2021 7:20:52 PM   
Nowi Ribak

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 10/30/2011
From: Austria, Europe
Status: offline 		@RangerJoe
Thx, I already know the links and will read more carefully.

How would you design the amphibious TF? I tried an AVD, but it couldnt pick up the cargo

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 3
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/7/2021 7:32:44 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nowi Ribak

@RangerJoe
Thx, I already know the links and will read more carefully.

How would you design the amphibious TF? I tried an AVD, but it couldn't pick up the cargo


Again, it depends upon the defenses, what you are attacking with, and what ships that you have available. But you want to combat load your vessels so they will unload all of the troops along with supplies in one day. Have at least one ship only loaded with supplies. If there are CD guns there, you will need Battleships and/or Cruisers with the amphibious TF.

AVDs load supplies for supporting flying boats and float planes. They would need to be in a Fast Transport TF to load anything else.

< Message edited by RangerJoe -- 9/7/2021 7:37:00 PM >

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Nowi Ribak)
Post #: 4
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/7/2021 7:34:51 PM   
Macclan5


Posts: 1065
Joined: 3/24/2016
From: Toronto Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nowi Ribak

1) the right altitude for a specific air mission
offensive CAP vs defensive CAP, naval attack dive vs torpedo bombers etc - any guide out there? I test a lot but apart from the 6k feet barrier I am no wiser

2) cargo on 0 port islands
which ships can pick it up? and how?




Welcome.

You have via the courtesy of RangerJoe some very good threads.

I highly recommend you review stickys in the 'war room' forums in addition to the manual; the manual is not that onerous to read and you will be surprised - things that didnt make sense or click as you read it - will make sense as you play the game down the road.

1) There is no one answer. It "depends". Low CAP High CAP and Naval Search have very different requirements. Your question is very mixed.

You should also consider the aircraft capabilities in terms of best performance / maneuver range - this is available from the squadron details.

A P39 on CAP has very different results than an F4 Corsair :)

2) Amphibious



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Post #: 5
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/7/2021 8:54:53 PM   
Uncivil Engineer

 

Posts: 1014
Joined: 2/22/2012
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nowi Ribak

Hi,
have a few questions, dont find a lot on the forum with the search function, so I bundled them together:

1) the right altitude for a specific air mission
offensive CAP vs defensive CAP, naval attack dive vs torpedo bombers etc - any guide out there? I test a lot but apart from the 6k feet barrier I am no wiser

2) cargo on 0 port islands
which ships can pick it up? and how?

3) guide for naval invasion
am currently playing june 42' and slowly preparing my first major offensive (to no wonder in the Solomons ...)
what to do when in which order? I am still planning and would love some guidance.

I am sure some of you veterans can help me out :-).
Btw absolutely great game, best € per h value of anything relating to entertainement

Thx in advance, BR


My answers here are by no means the gospel truth, but I'll tell what I use playing Japan -

1a - defensive CAP should usually be layered, I generally use 10k, 12k, 15k, 20k but not necessarily all four. As the game progresses these will go higher, as sweeps come in at 20k, 25k, 30k. Altitude should also be adjusted for the type of incoming - 4E bombers will be higher than 2E bombers (usually).

1b - for escorting fighters I usually put them 2k above the bombers (and hopefully they fly at the same time).

1c - I fly DB at 10k, TB at 8k, search at 6k, and ASW at 2k. Nells and Betties fly higher when attacking a land target, unless that target is a secondary mission to naval attack. In China I fly ground attack bombers at 5k, since Chinese AA generally sucks.

2 - you don't say what you're trying to pick up in a level 0 port. For troop pickup the TF should be amphibious. I wouldn't bother picking up supply or resources in a level 0 port.

3 - you want to know as much about your objective as you can - fly recon on it continuously, bombard it with battleships or cruisers, bomb it from the air. If you can keep the airfield and/or port damaged, then the defenders cannot fortify. Select transports that unload the fastest - LST, APA, AKA, AP, AK, xAP, xAK, APD, AMC, etc. Have tanks, engineers, and artillery in the first wave (along with infantry, obviously) AND supply. Have one or two ships loaded with supply ONLY. Transports unload troops before supply, so in order to get some supply unloaded in the first wave have some ships that carry only supply. Have your troops prepped for the objective, especially if it is an atoll. Have air cover over your transports, and a stout naval escort. Have aviation support, more engineers, HQ, and infantry reinforcements ready to go in a second wave. That should be a good start.



(in reply to Nowi Ribak)
Post #: 6
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/8/2021 3:54:49 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		There was a recent thread on organising an amphibious operation that included some excellent posts going into minute detail about how to organise and sequence your TFs.

Post #12 is particularly good.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5026903#

Edit - Pasted for you:

quote:

Collect everything in a hex a adjacent to the target, and then go in and unloading from 1 hex away, so that you get two unload phases before the shock attack {Note this is a reference to the mandatory shock attack when you land on atoll. There is no mandatory attack when you land on any larger island.)

Ideally you organise something like this to form up one hex away -

1) your lead TF that everyone follows is your AGC carrying the prepped Amph force HQ, set to not unload.

2) Your bombardment SAG.

3) Your CVE TF(s).

4) Your assault landing TF. Note regarding the escorts taking shore fire - Fletchers are good in this role because they have some armor plate.

5) A separate supply force made up of combat loaded AKs.

6) A support force with AR, AE/AKE, AD, and AOs, that can anchor in the atoll as soon as it's secured and get to work.

7) A replenishment TF to service, at least, the CVEs.

8) An empty TF AP/AK that arrives empty and is tasked with lifting your marines straight off the atoll and heading back to pearl for R&R. {Not required for larger islands where stacking is not an issue, but, it still may be useful due to malaria zone effects, etc]

9) Your garrison and engineers/base force TF which will unload after the atoll is secured.

The turn you issue the order 'land the landing force', you can manually set the orders for the assault TFs to make sure they do what they are supposed to.


< Message edited by Ian R -- 9/8/2021 4:08:05 AM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/8/2021 5:38:45 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		The one thing I do different is to change this for atoll assaults:
Collect everything in a hex a adjacent to the target, and then go in and unloading from 1 hex away, so that you get two unload phases before the shock attack

To go to the hex you are assaulting with everyone set to not unload that can have that order( amphib assault, supply, support, garrison and engineers )

The next turn set the amphib assault TF to unload, the bombardment TF to bombard with stay on station orders. That way you get 4 unload phases during the turn and should
be able to unload most every thing. If you somewhat lightly load the troops in the amphib assault TF, they should completely unload as long as you are using APA, AKA, LST, etc.
I would caution you to not try invading an atoll with xAP and/or AP ships. It can be costly.

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 8
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/8/2021 11:01:46 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

The one thing I do different is to change this for atoll assaults:
Collect everything in a hex a adjacent to the target, and then go in and unloading from 1 hex away, so that you get two unload phases before the shock attack

To go to the hex you are assaulting with everyone set to not unload that can have that order( amphib assault, supply, support, garrison and engineers )

The next turn set the amphib assault TF to unload, the bombardment TF to bombard with stay on station orders. That way you get 4 unload phases during the turn and should
be able to unload most every thing. If you somewhat lightly load the troops in the amphib assault TF, they should completely unload as long as you are using APA, AKA, LST, etc.
I would caution you to not try invading an atoll with xAP and/or AP ships. It can be costly.


There are 4 load/unload phases in a one day turn?

Agree on not using AP/xAP for atoll landings.

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Post #: 9
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/8/2021 11:45:28 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		Atoll attacking is about understanding stacking limits and what effect they have and understanding the automatic Shock Attack mechanism.

Unlike a landing on a larger island, an Atoll landing will trigger an auto-shock attack. All subsequent follow up landings will also trigger shock attacks.

For this reason, as mentioned above, you want to make sure you get as much landed as possible, by making sure you take advantage of all unloading phases that will occur prior to the first attack and by using ship types that have higher unload rates over beaches such as APAs, AKAs and landing craft.

The way to ensure you get to use every unloading phase is to set the TF to Do Not Unload until the turn after it enters the target hex.

To attack a properly defended Atoll, you will need to overstack. If the initial attack doesn't succeed, you will be left with a difficult situation as you will be suffering the ill effects of overstacking with a force that is likely heavily disabled. A decidedly difficult situation going forward.

Atolls, because of their stacking limit, are untenable for full divisions as garrisons. At most you will likely encounter a regiment/brigade plus support. Stacking space may also have to be allocated to a base force to support air operations.

This can be successfully assaulted with a full division, plus support troops in the form of an artillery battalion, a tank battalion and at least a combat engineer battalion, but preferably a regimental sized CE as the battalions are very squishy.
The combined arms approach has always proven to be the best for me.

It is also a very good idea to include a Corps HQ to provide a force multiplier for your assault values. Later, when they become available, an Amphibious Force HQ, in an amphib control ship, is also a big plus.

The key to dealing with the overstacking is to keep the invasion TF in the hex and immediately reload the division after the invasion succeeds.

Those are just a few suggestions. I am sure others can expand on it.

_____________________________

Hans


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Post #: 10
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/8/2021 12:19:26 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nowi Ribak

3) guide for naval invasion
am currently playing june 42' and slowly preparing my first major offensive (to no wonder in the Solomons ...)
what to do when in which order? I am still planning and would love some guidance.


There's been some good advice in this thread, but also a lot which is not applicable to your situation:

1) You do not have an AGC command ship in June 1942, so any HQ will have to land with the attackers.

2) The only atoll in the Solomons is Ontong Java, so unless you plan to land there (and why would you), then you can ignore all the information on "Atoll Invasions". It does not apply.

3) The most important thing you can do it to recon, recon, recon, and RECON your target. Also you should have been paying attention to the daily intel reports, as they will frequently tell you which units - by name - are at this location or moving toward it. KNOW what is there, and then craft your attacking force to beat it. Don't use an elephant to kill a fly.

4) Again, it's June 1942 so your choice of troop carrying ships is limited. Do not use xAPs or xAKs (as you've wisely been advised), but you will probably have to utilize AP and AK ships. APDs and AMCs are also very good. As a cautionary note, you might think that AVDs can load troop elements, but they cannot - supply only.

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to Nowi Ribak)
Post #: 11
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/9/2021 9:56:56 PM   
Nowi Ribak

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 10/30/2011
From: Austria, Europe
Status: offline 		thx guys for the great answers, I read them all in detail and am already drawing up my invasion plans

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 12
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/10/2021 12:12:46 PM   
Mercenary


Posts: 44
Joined: 12/25/2008
From: Russia.
Status: offline 		"Various questions"

So... this is the topic I need.

Why can Betty use torpedoes on a Truck? There is no air HQ. On other airfields without HQ, only bombs, regardless of the amount of supplies.



< Message edited by Mercenary -- 9/10/2021 12:14:08 PM >

(in reply to Nowi Ribak)
Post #: 13
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/10/2021 12:24:08 PM   
Mercenary


Posts: 44
Joined: 12/25/2008
From: Russia.
Status: offline 		Nowi Ribak
Thank you for creating a theme with this name! Am I going to live here?

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Post #: 14
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/10/2021 12:29:54 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercenary

"Various questions"

So... this is the topic I need.

Why can Betty use torpedoes on a Truck? There is no air HQ. On other airfields without HQ, only bombs, regardless of the amount of supplies.




Because there is a Command HQ present.

See section 7.2.1.10.2.2 of the manual.

< Message edited by Nomad -- 9/10/2021 12:31:29 PM >

(in reply to Mercenary)
Post #: 15
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/10/2021 2:10:36 PM   
Uncivil Engineer

 

Posts: 1014
Joined: 2/22/2012
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercenary

"Various questions"

So... this is the topic I need.

Why can Betty use torpedoes on a Truck? There is no air HQ. On other airfields without HQ, only bombs, regardless of the amount of supplies.




What scenario are you playing? You're correct that without an Air HQ Betties should not have torpedoes, but in smaller scenarios the creator may have given Truk the ability to always allow torps. Just my guess.


(in reply to Mercenary)
Post #: 16
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/10/2021 2:18:02 PM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercenary

"Various questions"

So... this is the topic I need.

Why can Betty use torpedoes on a Truck? There is no air HQ. On other airfields without HQ, only bombs, regardless of the amount of supplies.




What scenario are you playing? You're correct that without an Air HQ Betties should not have torpedoes, but in smaller scenarios the creator may have given Truk the ability to always allow torps. Just my guess.




Read the manual. It really helps.

(in reply to Uncivil Engineer)
Post #: 17
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/10/2021 3:34:50 PM   
Mercenary


Posts: 44
Joined: 12/25/2008
From: Russia.
Status: offline
quote:

What scenario are you playing? You're correct that without an Air HQ Betties should not have torpedoes, but in smaller scenarios the creator may have given Truk the ability to always allow torps. Just my guess.


2 scenario. A big campaign. Yes, I found two headquarters there.

(in reply to Uncivil Engineer)
Post #: 18
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/13/2021 4:43:37 PM   
tomeck48

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 8/5/2016
Status: offline 		Hi, I'm looking for Kull's spreadsheet for initial allied setup, but all I can find is some screen shots. Anyone have a link?

(in reply to Mercenary)
Post #: 19
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/13/2021 5:04:10 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Look on the bottom of Kull's posts.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to tomeck48)
Post #: 20
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/14/2021 1:16:33 AM   
tomeck48

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 8/5/2016
Status: offline 		Thanks

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 21
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/21/2021 9:45:16 AM   
Mercenary


Posts: 44
Joined: 12/25/2008
From: Russia.
Status: offline 		Repair Shipyards - they spend heavy industry points?
It seems to be not. But then why is there an ON / OFF button?

< Message edited by Mercenary -- 9/21/2021 9:55:58 AM >

(in reply to tomeck48)
Post #: 22
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/21/2021 10:04:19 AM   
Mercenary


Posts: 44
Joined: 12/25/2008
From: Russia.
Status: offline 		I examine Japanese production and the acceleration of aviation. Ended of all the tears

< Message edited by Mercenary -- 9/21/2021 10:06:00 AM >

(in reply to Mercenary)
Post #: 23
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/21/2021 1:17:23 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercenary

Repair Shipyards - they spend heavy industry points?
It seems to be not. But then why is there an ON / OFF button?


Maybe expansion and repairs?

RTFM?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Mercenary)
Post #: 24
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/21/2021 2:21:10 PM   
btd64


Posts: 9973
Joined: 1/23/2010
From: Mass. USA. now in Lancaster, OHIO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercenary

Repair Shipyards - they spend heavy industry points?
It seems to be not. But then why is there an ON / OFF button?


Maybe expansion and repairs?

RTFM?



I don't have the link but search for the Japanese Economy Primer. Very helpful. Also there is a Economy update in the manual folder in the game....GP

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Post #: 25
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/21/2021 10:52:02 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline 		Second link in the first post is the pdf version of the Economy Primer. Answers that question and MANY more.

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AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

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Post #: 26
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/23/2021 12:56:11 AM   
tomeck48

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 8/5/2016
Status: offline 		I am working through Kull's spreadsheet for the first turn setup. There are a number of directions that look like this: "Create Cargo TF (4), to Brisbane, Set Home Port Brisbane"

What does the (4) refer to and/or mean?

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 27
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/23/2021 1:47:42 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		How many cargo TFs were created before this?

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to tomeck48)
Post #: 28
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/23/2021 3:09:43 AM   
tomeck48

 

Posts: 203
Joined: 8/5/2016
Status: offline 		This is all happening in Brisbane, lines 167 - 183

Upon further review, it looks like TF1 goes to Los Angeles to carry cargo back to Brisbane or other port? TF3 has 6 ships going to Port Moresby that will Dock, Load fuel and not refuel. TF 4 has 4 ships carrying supplies to Port Moresby

TF 2 (not shown here) is a minesweeper.

Am I right?

PG Moresby Create Cargo TF (3), Dock, Load Fuel, to Port Moresby, Do Not Refuel
PG Swan Create Cargo TF (4), Dock, Load Supply, to Port Moresby, Do Not Refuel
xAK American Create Cargo TF (1), to Los Angeles, Set Home Port Los Angeles, Waypoint1: 154,164
xAK Anshun Create Cargo TF (4), Dock, Load Supply, to Port Moresby, Do Not Refuel
xAK Beltana Create Cargo TF (3), Dock, Load Fuel, to Port Moresby, Do Not Refuel
xAK Dardanus Create Cargo TF (1), to Los Angeles, Set Home Port Los Angeles, Waypoint1: 154,164
xAK Mobile City Create Cargo TF (9), to Townsville, Set Home Port Townsville (Convert to AKE)
xAK Momba Create Cargo TF (3), Dock, Load Fuel, to Port Moresby, Do Not Refuel
xAK Silksworth Create Cargo TF (1), to Los Angeles, Set Home Port Los Angeles, Waypoint1: 154,164
xAK Steel Age Create Cargo TF (1), to Los Angeles, Set Home Port Los Angeles, Waypoint1: 154,164
xAK Yochow Create Cargo TF (4), Dock, Load Supply, to Port Moresby, Do Not Refuel
xAK Yunnan Create Cargo TF (4), Dock, Load Supply, to Port Moresby, Do Not Refuel
xAKL Bidelia Create Cargo TF (7), Dock, Load Supply, to Merauke, Set Home Port Townsville, Do Not Refuel
xAKL Morazan Create Cargo TF (3), Dock, Load Fuel, to Port Moresby, Do Not Refuel
xAKL Nevadan Create Cargo TF (3), Dock, Load Fuel, to Port Moresby, Do Not Refuel
xAKL Prusa Create Cargo TF (3), Dock, Load Fuel, to Port Moresby, Do Not Refuel

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 29
RE: Various questions - beginner lvl - 9/23/2021 1:14:09 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tomeck48

I am working through Kull's spreadsheet for the first turn setup. There are a number of directions that look like this: "Create Cargo TF (4), to Brisbane, Set Home Port Brisbane"

What does the (4) refer to and/or mean?


It means it's the 4th TF you are creating in Brisbane. All TFs being created in Ports get similar terminology - see the "Naval Units" comment on row 21 of the "Getting Started" page for an in-depth discussion on this.

_____________________________

AE-Japan Setup

AE-Allied Setup

Japan Air-Engine Plan

(in reply to tomeck48)
Post #: 30
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