Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> The War Room >> RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 6:56:00 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		REBASING Hungarian Air Force

Procede as indicated below:




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/15/2021 6:57:46 AM >

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 121
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 7:04:00 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Hungarian AD: 2 airfields strike




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 122
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 8:18:42 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		REBASING Rumanian Air Force

Procede as below in order to move Rumanian fighters closer to the border:




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 123
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 8:20:46 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Rumanian Air Force should look like that after rebasing:




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 124
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 8:44:20 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Last, we'll need to rebase all groups of KG 27 to Constanta and we will be good for building the last ADs (Rumanians and Luftflotte 4).




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 125
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 8:52:50 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		1st Rumanian AD: double strike on Chernovtsy AF with 50 bombers and 20 escort.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 126
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 8:58:31 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		2nd Rumanian AD: double strike on Beltsy, same force.

[Note: my ADs are slightly different from jubjub's post because my rebasing of Rumanians is not exactly the same.]




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 127
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 9:04:54 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		3rd Rumanian AD: strike at 3 Soviet airfields using Husi as a staging base.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 128
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 9:37:58 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		4th Rumanian AD: single strike at Bolgrad




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 129
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 9:42:08 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		5th Rumanian AD: 2 airfields boxed; priority lowered to "High"; strength is 50/20.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/15/2021 9:43:56 AM >

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 130
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 9:48:42 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		6th Rumanian AD: double strike at Odessa AF with 100 bombers & 20 escort. Priority is set to "High".




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 131
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 10:00:22 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		7th and last Rumanian AD: Strike at Kacha AF in Crimea with the remaining unescorted bombers; priority was set to "High".




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 132
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 10:31:43 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Final AD, and 9th for Luftflotte 4: 2 Crimean airfields bombing with 40 unescorted bombers of KG 27 from Constanta.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/15/2021 10:32:37 AM >

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 133
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 10:35:45 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		I'm testing and verifying those ADs and I'll post the game save file here once it's done.

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 134
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 11:33:04 AM   
Nix77

 

Posts: 561
Joined: 10/2/2016
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I think you should set all unescorted sorties to lower priority.

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 135
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 11:40:03 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77

I think you should set all unescorted sorties to lower priority.


Actually they are all set at lower priority as everything else is "very high". But yes, maybe those last in the South could be set even lower.

It seems that I'm getting more aircraft shot down than during my previous tests (in between, there was a couple of patches). Now, I've seen a few interceptions and, sometime, escort don't even prevent bomber losses - it's not a dramatic loss rate but I certainly had better overall results than that previously.

The good news is that it's certainly possible to improve those ADs by a good margin.

< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/15/2021 2:38:34 PM >

(in reply to Nix77)
Post #: 136
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 1:27:24 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Here is the save file (before any modification)

Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 137
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 1:30:09 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Global map for those ADs:




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 138
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 2:17:14 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Test Results.
- Losses:




Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 139
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 2:18:45 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		- AD reported:





Attachment (1)

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 140
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/15/2021 8:30:34 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		A total of 58 Soviet aircraft survived on 6 airfields amongst those covered by those ADs:




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/15/2021 8:32:26 PM >

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 141
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/16/2021 12:57:05 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		Thank you so much for putting this all together! Tremendous resource for doing T1 manual air in great detail.

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 142
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/16/2021 1:30:11 AM   
GibsonPete


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/5/2014
Status: offline 		Using the techniques you and others have shared I average over over 3000 soviet air frames destroyed with the axis losses being around 50 (+ or - 10), mostly operational. A huge difference from just eight weeks ago. Thank you for this.

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 143
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/16/2021 10:16:01 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		Thank you guys, I'm glad you liked it :)

Now, I'm going to improve all those ADs depending on what objective the Axis player will give the highest priority.

It could be:
a) - reducing losses
b) - increasing the number of destroyed Soviet airframes
c) - preparation for the ground phase in order to kill as many Soviet pilots as possible


My favorite would be the last one as I think that is what would damage the VVS most, but it's also more difficult to measure its effect immediately after the Air Phase (we'll need to wait for a full turn result).

< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/16/2021 10:21:38 AM >

(in reply to GibsonPete)
Post #: 144
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/17/2021 6:31:21 AM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline 		b) - increasing the number of destroyed airframes:

- Soviet losses are close to 4,000 airframes, about 700 more than previous ADs;
- Axis losses were kept under 100, which would be an acceptable cost; to be noted that nearly half were due to AA fire;
- Number of Sorties went down from 2,958 to 2,017, nearly one thousand less, which also means a lot less ammo and fuel burned;
- Those hastily modified ADs can certainly be refined further for even better results...




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by metaphore -- 10/17/2021 6:32:28 AM >

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 145
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/17/2021 10:29:37 AM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		What further modifications did you do for item b)?

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to metaphore)
Post #: 146
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/17/2021 3:10:15 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 6987
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline 		This is what you are fighting against to get the most aircraft destroyed on the first turn. I will let everyone fill out the parameters of the "Bell Curve" & yes you will have outliers. But there is a theoretical limit to how many aircraft you can destroy(peak Soviet plane destruction) & knowing the rough estimate at the top is a good way of judging that. The next parameter is how many aircraft & pilots the Germans lose in the process. I believe I know that top of the bell curve so I go for close to peak Soviet plane destruction and the least amount of aircraft and pilots lost for the Germans on the Bell Curve which in my opinion the true test of how efficient your bombing is.

So our math wizards can put the numbers in since I have not done math since my "Master" classes in college.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 10/17/2021 3:12:12 PM >

(in reply to Zovs)
Post #: 147
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/17/2021 4:20:45 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Somehow the 'area' business does not work for me.
The AI will allocate Bf109 fighters as bombers, send them in, not destroy enough Soviet fighters on the ground; then the 'escort of 10 fighters' get overwhelmed here and there.

There must be a passage I am missing because I quite fancy the 'draw a few ADs and get done' instaed of the 1 by 1 individual airfield targetting.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 148
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/17/2021 6:15:26 PM   
Zovs


Posts: 6668
Joined: 2/23/2009
From: United States
Status: offline 		I did a first test with Luft 1 in RTL following these guides and the results were outstanding, 7 lost to 700. Try a smaller test for each Luft. This was tested in 0.15 beta, going to test the next beta patch Monday.

_____________________________


Beta Tester for:
Flashpoint Campaigns: Sudden Storm
War in the East 1 & 2
WarPlan & WarPlan Pacific
Valor & Victory
DG CWIE 2
SPWW2 & SPMBT scenario creator

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 149
RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips - 10/17/2021 8:44:40 PM   
metaphore

 

Posts: 238
Joined: 9/4/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Somehow the 'area' business does not work for me.
The AI will allocate Bf109 fighters as bombers, send them in, not destroy enough Soviet fighters on the ground; then the 'escort of 10 fighters' get overwhelmed here and there.

There must be a passage I am missing because I quite fancy the 'draw a few ADs and get done' instaed of the 1 by 1 individual airfield targetting.

Yes, I've noticed in my latest tests that results were different from previous build but it's possible to refine those ADs to make them work again.

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 150
Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> The War Room >> RE: Luftwaffe vs VVS - GC41 - First Turn Bombing Tips Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.063