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RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A)

 
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RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/14/2021 4:37:34 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

Anyone familiar with Japanese medium tank production within the game? I read in Goldman's superb Nomanhan, 1939, that these vehicles were difficult and expensive for Japanese industry to produce, so they were treated like gold. This seems to be faithfully replicated in the game. Through the middle of January, not a single new medium tank has been produced of either the Type 89A or Type 97.

I have increased Vehicle Assembly to 150.

Two possibilities:
- the pool is full so no more will be produced at this time
- there is no scheduled production so replacements for losses will only be produced using accumulated supply and vehicle production points. Per m-m's point, production might be scheduled to begin at a later date.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 91
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/14/2021 5:00:36 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		My understanding is that when the vehicles are needed, the appropriate points are deducted from the vehicle and armament pools. Any upgrades will send the older vehicles into the pool. My suggestion would be to slowly upgrade the units so you don't have a lot of older vehicles in the pools which can still be useful against the Chinese.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 92
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/17/2021 12:42:14 AM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

Thanks Mind Messing, BBfanboy and Ranger Joe!

I need to look up the asterisk to see what it means.





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 93
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/17/2021 1:48:48 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline 		As RJ said, demand them and they will arrive at the front, cooked to order from Vehicle, Manpower and Supply points.
Don’t worry if there are none in the pool, just set replacements/upgrades to on and if you have the V/M/S points they will appear.
It was a few years ago and I can’t check right now, but from memory some of the older tanks have better anti soft ratings than the newer models, which could be of more use vs riflemen. If you have time you can check the in game database to compare some of those stats to help decide whether to upgrade or not.

_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

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Post #: 94
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/17/2021 4:26:05 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jdsrae

As RJ said, demand them and they will arrive at the front, cooked to order from Vehicle, Manpower and Supply points.
Don’t worry if there are none in the pool, just set replacements/upgrades to on and if you have the V/M/S points they will appear.
It was a few years ago and I can’t check right now, but from memory some of the older tanks have better anti soft ratings than the newer models, which could be of more use vs riflemen. If you have time you can check the in game database to compare some of those stats to help decide whether to upgrade or not.

Perfect, thanks. Of course, that means I have been conserving them somewhat needlessly...War is hard. It is harder if you are stupid.

I will look at the stats in the data base. From the historical literature, the older model light tanks were vulnerable to heavy machine gun fire, so they should definitely be replaced. I suspect the Type 89A medium tank would have a better anti-soft rating since its main gun was a low velocity infantry support gun versus the Type 97s anti tank gun.

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Post #: 95
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/17/2021 5:12:54 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		If that is the case for the older medium tanks, upgrade slowly to the newer model to use up the Type 89As. Use the older ones against the Chinese . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 96
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/17/2021 5:53:46 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		17 Jan 1942

I-20 confirms there are xAPs unloading at Midway.
Glens recon Pearl Harbor, but don't get a good look at what is in the harbor.
I-169 sinks an empty AP near Auckland.
RO-60 sinks an xAK carrying troops near Cairns.
I-24 sinks an empty xAK escaping Java.

A veteran destroy squadron sinks the last of the Dutch PT boats that attempted unsuccessfully to interdict our landing on Java. Our troops advance on Batavia.

Bettys hit the airfield at Soerabaja, but the enemy has relocated the 30 or so bombers there from Java. At the moment, the ABDA air force on Java consists of a handful of Hawks and a few patrol planes. Recon will try and locate where they went. Intelligence believes they may be on Borneo.

In China, our bombers hit the airfield at Sian.




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Post #: 97
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/17/2021 6:38:24 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		18 Jan 1942

In China, the enemy has reinforced his defense in the mountains east of Sian with an understrength infantry corps and a cavalry corps. Our armor will attack tomorrow. At Wenchow, as expected, our three divisions will be in for a long fight, with one good enemy corps, and two weak enemy corps in strong terrain. Siege artillery, naval bombardment and airpower will be applied to weaken the enemy. The enemy also tried to entice us to attack the airfield at Chungking. He massed 50 bombers there on the 17th (with no fighters), then replaced them with 100 fighters overnight. This seemed a bit obvious.

We have called-off the Midway operation for the time being. With the confirmation the enemy has reinforced the base, the high command assesses the likelihood of success as low and Midway is not valuable enough to risk a major operation. Intelligence assessments of the enemy's carrier operations off the Home Islands indicate he is likely using Marine Wildcats to add fighters to the carrier air groups, and Yorktown is in theater. Indomitable is also in theater but still in the Indian Ocean. The three US CVs can be defeated by the Kido Butai, but we would likely lose one or more carriers. The enemy will have air search around Midway; the KB would have to rely on submarines to identify the enemy early.

On Luzon, our first attack at Manila gets a strong 1:1 and reduces the forts to 1. General Homma, known to be cautious with his troops, has none the less ordered a shock attack.

On Java, our troops are maneuvering and the transports are returning to Singapore. Our next move is on Burma. We are taking his bases on northern Sumatra, where he has continued to operate level bombers as naval search, and will also seize Port Blair in preparation. We anticipate the Royal Navy will attempt to intervene once our invasion TFs are sighted, but want to give him as little advanced notice as possible. He has a potentially powerful force, including a BB (Royal Sovereign), BC, a CV, a CVE and a number of cruisers.

A cruiser TF of four Aobas bombards Port Moresby with good effect.

On New Caledonia, our troops have reached Noumea and confirmed it is only defended by a French battalion and a fragment of a USAAF base force.


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Post #: 98
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/17/2021 11:34:33 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		Following up on the medium tank discussion, I looked at the device data. The Type 89 and Type 97 medium tanks have the same anti soft rating of 24 and the same anti armor rating of 50. The Type 1 medium is where the differences occur. It has a lower anti soft of 16 and a higher anti armor of 80.

The Type 98 light tank is a significant upgrade on the Type 95. It has better armor than the mediums and the same anti armor, though lower anti soft (but still better than the old Type 95)

The Ya-I Go's have the best anti soft at 34, but with an armor rating of only 5, they die easily. I used them in one assault along with six armor regiments (Israeli Six Day War style, pure armor formations) and the battalion became isolated and almost destroyed. I assume that was a bad die roll, but it was an unpleasant shock. The battalion is almost rebuilt. I won't commit it without the infantry this time and see how it goes <pun not intended>.

< Message edited by Wirraway_Ace -- 11/17/2021 11:58:28 PM >

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Post #: 99
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/17/2021 11:45:32 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		I know this is mostly a game of ships and planes, so I will wrap up the discussion of Japanese tanks with this:



The Type 4, which was only ever finished in prototype. It looks like a PZ IV hull with Henschel King Tiger turret.

Sadly, the Type 4 self propelled gun (a very different thing) makes it into the game but not the Type 4 tank.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Wirraway_Ace -- 11/17/2021 11:51:09 PM >

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Post #: 100
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/18/2021 12:28:45 AM   
ITAKLinus

 

Posts: 630
Joined: 2/22/2018
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Forget about everything. There are two important upgrades, one in like JUN-42 and the other (the most important) in JUN-44.

You can be stingy and I suggest you to be and avoid costly upgrades but remember to turn off replacements to the units using old tanks.

If I haven't lived on Mars for the last years, Japan produces tank-stuff when needed and it's not like the Allied side where you have a fixed monthly production and random pool injections from convoys.


VEH production is quite bad at the beginning and I always increase it, btw. In a mad game I reached 300 VEH per-month and I had pool always to 0, but my suggestion is for 120-150 VEH per-month. It's already a lot if you don't go wild out of the historical perimeter.


Basically, Japanese tanks are rubbish and we all know that. The general idea is to keep your LCUs with 100% TOEs and upgrade those which are super-depleted just like you'd do with the allies, but always remembering that Japanese have this funky system in which they produce as they need.
Also, never forget: A) you'll need about 10,000VEH points to fill up the arriving units; B) if you are the kind of guy who buys Manchiurian ARM, you need more VEH earlier in the game than otherwise: C) you have 2 (TWO!) relatively useful Tank Divisions coming in '42 and they need an insane amount of VEH points to be kept in fighting conditions; D) I'm fairly drunk with haitian rum; E) you can face allied tanks in '42 but '43 already becomes very intense and you'll need more VEH points; F) Omar is a pain in the butt since he's a very good player and your mobile reserves will be called into fight earlier and in higher numbers than in other games; G) never forget that artillery is a decent AT and saves you MANY VEH points over the course of a game; H) tankettes have always performed very well on atoll defense for me, those disgusting 17AV units have done a very good job almost always and using them saves limited ARM LCUs for more important tasks; I) you can and should split 80AV ARM LCUs in smaller pieces when you assume a more defensive posture; L) replacing a tankette costs precisely as much as replacing a king tiger, just like Nates cost as much as F16s; M) the magic group of Grant/Lee-Valentine-Matilda-Sherman is your problem but never forget that massed AVs can win the fight if they don't have supporting infantry and make them retreat, just like Chinese can do a random shock attack and push back IJA tanks


_____________________________

Francesco

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Post #: 101
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/18/2021 12:44:21 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

D) I'm fairly drunk with haitian rum; . . .


This is the best part.

It also helps the Haitian economy which needs help.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to ITAKLinus)
Post #: 102
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/18/2021 2:00:23 AM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

Forget about everything. There are two important upgrades, one in like JUN-42 and the other (the most important) in JUN-44.

You can be stingy and I suggest you to be and avoid costly upgrades but remember to turn off replacements to the units using old tanks.

If I haven't lived on Mars for the last years, Japan produces tank-stuff when needed and it's not like the Allied side where you have a fixed monthly production and random pool injections from convoys.


VEH production is quite bad at the beginning and I always increase it, btw. In a mad game I reached 300 VEH per-month and I had pool always to 0, but my suggestion is for 120-150 VEH per-month. It's already a lot if you don't go wild out of the historical perimeter.


Basically, Japanese tanks are rubbish and we all know that. The general idea is to keep your LCUs with 100% TOEs and upgrade those which are super-depleted just like you'd do with the allies, but always remembering that Japanese have this funky system in which they produce as they need.
Also, never forget: A) you'll need about 10,000VEH points to fill up the arriving units; B) if you are the kind of guy who buys Manchiurian ARM, you need more VEH earlier in the game than otherwise: C) you have 2 (TWO!) relatively useful Tank Divisions coming in '42 and they need an insane amount of VEH points to be kept in fighting conditions; D) I'm fairly drunk with haitian rum; E) you can face allied tanks in '42 but '43 already becomes very intense and you'll need more VEH points; F) Omar is a pain in the butt since he's a very good player and your mobile reserves will be called into fight earlier and in higher numbers than in other games; G) never forget that artillery is a decent AT and saves you MANY VEH points over the course of a game; H) tankettes have always performed very well on atoll defense for me, those disgusting 17AV units have done a very good job almost always and using them saves limited ARM LCUs for more important tasks; I) you can and should split 80AV ARM LCUs in smaller pieces when you assume a more defensive posture; L) replacing a tankette costs precisely as much as replacing a king tiger, just like Nates cost as much as F16s; M) the magic group of Grant/Lee-Valentine-Matilda-Sherman is your problem but never forget that massed AVs can win the fight if they don't have supporting infantry and make them retreat, just like Chinese can do a random shock attack and push back IJA tanks


Thanks, Francesco! Great stuff.

I am currently producing 120 vehicles a month and plan to expand a bit further. I have bought out all the Manchukuo armor, but will wait to the Jun 42 upgrades to get the Type 1 medium tanks then grit my teeth until the Type 3s are available.

I don't recall the 17 AV tankette units in the OOB, but will keep my eye out for them.

All my friends who were artillery officers won't let me forget a 15cm artillery piece is a darn good tank killer.

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Post #: 103
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/18/2021 2:02:43 AM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

D) I'm fairly drunk with haitian rum; . . .


This is the best part.

It also helps the Haitian economy which needs help.

Does the rum help or hurt game play?

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Post #: 104
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/18/2021 10:46:23 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		19 Jan 42

Manila falls to a 3:1 shock attack. 27,000 Philippine Army, USAAF, and USMC troops surrender. The IJA loses 38 squads (and 44 disabled), nearly all from the 56th engineer regiment which apparently led the entire attack. Gen Homma also captures a considerable amount of supply and fuel. The enemy did fly in some P40Es to CAP Manila from Bataan. Our Tojos on LRCAP arrived to the dog fight late, so we lost a handful of Lilys and Sonias before the Tojos shot down the remaining CAP. This minor air engagement above the city appeared to have no effect on the outcome of the fight. On Luzon, the enemy is now confined to Clark-Bataan as we control all the hex-sides. We will leave one division, the 56th, along with two brigades to sit on the 40,000 enemy at Clark (with another 26,000 on Bataan) and redeploy the 48th and 16th divisions that suffered almost no casualties. The 56th is still broken down into regiments, one of which is assigned to the 16th Army. In the stock map, Clark is a costal hex, so naval bombardment over the coming days, weeks and months is an option to supplement IJAAF bombers.

The situation is similar on Mindanao, where the enemy retreated early to mountains, though we do not control all the hex-sides there yet. Small enemy forces remain on Panay and Cebu.

On Java, our second wave units arrive and begin offloading unmolested.

In the Celebes, the last major airfield at Makassar is invaded with SNLFs.

On New Guinea, IJA engineers complete the expansion of the Lae airstrip to Level 4 and move on Nadzab. The 4th Division is moving slowly on Kokoda Trail toward Port Moresby while 20th Division departs Japan to reinforce the attack as needed.

At Noumea on New Caledonia, we find a full USAAF Base Force along with the New Caledonia Detachment behind level 2 forts.

In China, we continue to grind away to decent effect, another couple hundred squads disabled and 100 destroyed for no losses other than a few trucks. The enemy has moved all his fighters from base to base the last three days, Kunming-Chungking-Sian, presumably trying to catch our bombers in a CAP trap. This is a goofy aspect of the game, making for very unrealistic play, but the game engine allows it with little penalty (a few ops loses, but many players just save and redo the move until there are none, and some fatigue that does not affect fighter squadrons much). The 5th Air Div is generally ignoring these antics, focusing on ground support. Nells from Chiang Mai will hit Kunming this turn, weather permitting, to see if he goes back to where he started.

On the production front, we are now producing 150 Oscars a month, By the end of January, all the units that can upgrade to the Ic will have converted from Nates or the older Oscar 1a model with only two 7.7mm machine guns. We still have a sentai flying the 1b model. It will be the last to convert. The other sentai flying Nates have to wait for Tojos in a PDU off game.

An enemy submarine is sighted off the Home Islands for the first time of the war. The enemy had a couple submarines in the East China Sea until yesterday, but one is now transiting just off the coast of Shikoku.





< Message edited by Wirraway_Ace -- 11/18/2021 10:54:21 PM >

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Post #: 105
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/19/2021 12:32:43 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		Just to let you know, I do believe that in order to bombard Clark that you have to go through the Bataan hex . . .

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 106
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/19/2021 9:13:11 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

Just to let you know, I do believe that in order to bombard Clark that you have to go through the Bataan hex . . .

I have that memory from ten years or so ago. I will test it first...

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Post #: 107
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/20/2021 12:08:28 AM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		Looks like a bombardment TF can go straight in at Clark from the west, based on some test routing. I will try it with something very expendable.

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 108
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/20/2021 1:34:53 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

Looks like a bombardment TF can go straight in at Clark from the west, based on some test routing. I will try it with something very expendable.

If you are using the extended map, it puts new base Subic Bay west of Clark, but going into Subic Bay does not let you bombard Clark AFAIK.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 109
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/20/2021 1:50:57 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I seriously suggest that you test it first before you do that in a PBEM, even if you just start the first turn and move a TF from Pescadores or Formosa to Bataan.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 110
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/20/2021 2:30:33 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace

Looks like a bombardment TF can go straight in at Clark from the west, based on some test routing. I will try it with something very expendable.

If you are using the extended map, it puts new base Subic Bay west of Clark, but going into Subic Bay does not let you bombard Clark AFAIK.

Thanks. I am uneasy as it is the stock map, which I have not played in a decade. I will test it as RangerJoe suggests using a first turn sandbox.

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Post #: 111
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/20/2021 7:08:17 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		20-21 Jan 42

In the mountain battles south and east of Sian, our attacks continue to decimate the enemy--literally. He loses about 100 AV each turn to disablements and twice that number destroyed in each stack. His fighters have not contested the airspace above the battles in weeks. It is harder now, since all the strikes are proceeded by sweeps and the bombers are escorted by Oscars instead of Nates. It is, none the less, a slow grind as the enemy has picked the best terrain he can to defend and bypassing is difficult and time consuming.

In Burma, he has largely evacuated the southern part of the country. We will invade by the end of the month.

On Java, his main defense is in the mountains at Bandoeng with about 40,000 troops there. He has one fighter squadron of B-339Ds at the base (his only fighters on Java at the moment), but they are flying training missions in the hope of catching unescorted bombers. This is another gamer only tactic: your air force at your primary airfield will not fly CAP in defense of the troops or the he airfield because of risk of being shot down. That squadron commander would be gone in a day. The tactic does not work anyway, as Nates on LRCAP shoot down one of the "trainees" who are unsuccessful engaging the bombers. If karma had a say, it was the squadron commander who was shot down.

The 38th Div enters Batavia and finds it moderately defended.
Ground combat at Batavia (49,98)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 13742 troops, 124 guns, 69 vehicles, Assault Value = 530

Defending force 6228 troops, 27 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 146

Assaulting units:
38th Division
6th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
Batavia Coastal Gun Battalion
1st KNIL Landstorm Battalion
4th KNIL Landstorm Battalion
1 ML-KNIL Aviation
Batavia Base Force

1st SNLF Paratroopers take Madioen while a recon battalion reaches Semarang. We are still couple of days away from cutting any potential support by his scattered forces, but we don't think that is his intent. Intel estimates believe his units will now die in place. Makassar in the Celebes was taken, so he is down to the following level II+ airfields in the PI and DEI:
Clark and Bandoeng which are heavily defended and will have to be suppressed for months; Tjilatjap, Soerabaja, Loemadjang, Denpasar, Bandjermasin, Balkpapan and Tarakan which we aim to take within the next two weeks.

Here is the situation in Java.





Attachment (1)

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Post #: 112
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/20/2021 7:51:51 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I seriously suggest that you test it first before you do that in a PBEM, even if you just start the first turn and move a TF from Pescadores or Formosa to Bataan.

So, in the stock map, you can go straight into the Clark hex from the sea. It is, however, defended by the Subic Bay batteries, with include two 10" and eight 6" coastal guns.

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 113
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/20/2021 8:24:38 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I seriously suggest that you test it first before you do that in a PBEM, even if you just start the first turn and move a TF from Pescadores or Formosa to Bataan.

So, in the stock map, you can go straight into the Clark hex from the sea. It is, however, defended by the Subic Bay batteries, with include two 10" and eight 6" coastal guns.

Where did I say you can go straight to Clark field on the stock map? On the stock map, you must go through the Bataan hex but you can get to Clark for bombardment on that route. On the extended map (which is NOT stock), you can go into Subic Bay or you can go into the Bataan hex, but I don't think either one lets you bombard Clark from the sea.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 114
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/20/2021 10:46:17 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I seriously suggest that you test it first before you do that in a PBEM, even if you just start the first turn and move a TF from Pescadores or Formosa to Bataan.

So, in the stock map, you can go straight into the Clark hex from the sea. It is, however, defended by the Subic Bay batteries, with include two 10" and eight 6" coastal guns.

Where did I say you can go straight to Clark field on the stock map? On the stock map, you must go through the Bataan hex but you can get to Clark for bombardment on that route. On the extended map (which is NOT stock), you can go into Subic Bay or you can go into the Bataan hex, but I don't think either one lets you bombard Clark from the sea.

I don't know, but in the map I am using, which to my knowledge is the stock map, Clark is a costal hex, defended by Subic Bay batteries, and I was able to invade the hex in a test turn without going through the Bataan hex.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Wirraway_Ace -- 11/20/2021 10:49:49 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 115
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/20/2021 10:48:23 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I seriously suggest that you test it first before you do that in a PBEM, even if you just start the first turn and move a TF from Pescadores or Formosa to Bataan.

So, in the stock map, you can go straight into the Clark hex from the sea. It is, however, defended by the Subic Bay batteries, with include two 10" and eight 6" coastal guns.

Where did I say you can go straight to Clark field on the stock map? On the stock map, you must go through the Bataan hex but you can get to Clark for bombardment on that route. On the extended map (which is NOT stock), you can go into Subic Bay or you can go into the Bataan hex, but I don't think either one lets you bombard Clark from the sea.

I don't know, but in the map I am using, which to my knowledge is the stock map, Clark is a costal hex, defended by Subic Bay batteries, and I was able to invade the hex without going through the Bataan hex.




Here is the F6 view without the invasion route.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 116
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/20/2021 10:54:02 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		Bottom line, however, is if I want to bombard Clark on this map, my ships will face the Subic Bay batteries. These are not terribly powerful, and not much of a threat to battleships, but anything smaller will be at risk. It looks like it will continue to be a job for the IJAAF.

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 117
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/21/2021 2:20:01 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		Something strange is going on. Are you using the new maps that Andrew Brown has been working on?
Here is my stock Scenario One map of the area with hexside details turned on. The red line on the west side of Clark field means no passage for ships or LCUs. But there is clearly a navigable approach on the left NE side of the Bataan hex.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 11/21/2021 2:21:12 AM >

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 118
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/21/2021 2:20:40 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline 		deleted: duplicate post

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 11/21/2021 2:21:36 AM >

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 119
RE: Requiem for Tomorrow Wirraway (J) v DesertWolf (A) - 11/21/2021 1:28:14 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Something strange is going on. Are you using the new maps that Andrew Brown has been working on?
Here is my stock Scenario One map of the area with hexside details turned on. The red line on the west side of Clark field means no passage for ships or LCUs. But there is clearly a navigable approach on the left NE side of the Bataan hex.






Definitely different. I did not download any different maps for this game. I had been playing DBB with the extended maps for years, but did a fresh download and install for this new game. Omar provided the stacking limits map data files. Perhaps those data are the source of the difference?

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 120
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