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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/25/2021 6:12:38 PM

golden delicious

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Little changed on turn 33. AGC, which was pushing forward slowly on a broad front up to two turns ago, is now extricating itself from the few Soviet units which were in contact and pulling back, to Tula as seen here and also to Orel just to the southeast of the screenshot (note 5. Panzer in reserve at Ryazan). The reduction of Moscow is paused to give the remaining Soviet troops there a chance to starve to death while my troops rest, but AGN has little choice but to continue the elimination of the Volkhov pocket, as it blocks the main LOC for significant forces which need to be pulled back.

I'm also on the offensive in the Kerch peninsula, which I hope to clear quickly and then evacuate much of this force back to Odessa (which is on the rail net) by sea. The first units have already left the Crimea.

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< Message edited by golden delicious -- 11/26/2021 1:17:40 PM >

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Post #: 61

RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/27/2021 11:42:33 AM

golden delicious

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More of the same on turn 34. AGN continues to work on liquidating the Volkhov pocket. Note that, for the first time since the fall of Odessa, the railhead is approaching one of the fighting fronts, here advanced to just short of Kirishi, thanks to AGN being somewhat behind its objectives compared to the other Axis forces. It should allow AGN to recover relatively rapidly from the mud phase and perhaps even make up some ground before the full winter, but the southern half of AGN is still mired in a supply desert, struggling to get back to the rail.

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Post #: 62

RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/27/2021 2:56:26 PM

Curtis Lemay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

More of the same on turn 34. AGN continues to work on liquidating the Volkhov pocket. Note that, for the first time since the fall of Odessa, the railhead is approaching one of the fighting fronts, here advanced to just short of Kirishi, thanks to AGN being somewhat behind its objectives compared to the other Axis forces. It should allow AGN to recover relatively rapidly from the mud phase and perhaps even make up some ground before the full winter, but the southern half of AGN is still mired in a supply desert, struggling to get back to the rail.

What's the Supply Radius?

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Post #: 63

RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/27/2021 5:33:03 PM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

What's the Supply Radius?

2

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Post #: 64

RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/27/2021 5:47:58 PM

Curtis Lemay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

What's the Supply Radius?

2

very short! Is that just for the mud phase? Or long term?

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Post #: 65

RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/28/2021 12:40:37 PM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

very short! Is that just for the mud phase? Or long term?

On turn 31 (last pre-mud turn), supply radius was 6. After the mud it rises back up but only to 4 (at least at first)

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Post #: 66

RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/28/2021 12:47:24 PM

golden delicious

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Turn 35 and the drain continues. From a level of 34k Heavy Rifle Squads assigned on turn 31, I've reached a low of just 26.5k from just four turns of mud effects. The good news is that the almost complete cessation of combat has led to more HRS accumulating in the "on hand" pool than have been lost from units; when the mud phase ends and my units recover their strength, I can hope to have an aggregate HRS strength 3-4k higher than when it started, plus a bit more from units scheduled to arrive as reinforcements in that time.

With forces pulling back along most of the frontline, the Soviets have had some chance to recover from the battering they received in the first part of the campaign and are beginning to probe forward in places, such as here east of Kharkov. A number of German and Hungarian divisions which are in good supply state are pushing east again in a race to preserve the strategic depth already obtained, and to screen the withdrawal of rearguards left behind which are now withering without supply.

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Post #: 67

RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/28/2021 4:02:10 PM

Curtis Lemay

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

very short! Is that just for the mud phase? Or long term?

On turn 31 (last pre-mud turn), supply radius was 6. After the mud it rises back up but only to 4 (at least at first)

I'll just say that's far below the numbers I use. But, maybe this has more liberal rail repair to compensate?

(This is a topic I like to harp upon, because so many designers don't give the Supply Radius much thought and its effect is enormous).

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/28/2021 6:19:43 PM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

I'll just say that's far below the numbers I use. But, maybe this has more liberal rail repair to compensate?

(This is a topic I like to harp upon, because so many designers don't give the Supply Radius much thought and its effect is enormous).

Rail repair is pretty bad too. The net effect seems about right to me: Axis units which are a long way from the railhead really don't get the supplies they need, which is quite correct for this campaign. There are however a significant number of supply units available which allow this condition to be improved in certain sectors.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/28/2021 6:22:15 PM

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There were 48 Railroad Pioneer companies (Eisenbahn-pionier Kompanien) in the east in 1941. These guys were the elite rail repair engineers. Each company could regauge about 5km of rail per day and were trained to work independently in company sized units and typically did. They sometimes worked very close to the front lines. Then there were the Railroad Engineer Construction companies (16) and battalions (6). Less skilled and used guys from the Reich Rail Authority but mainly from the Reich Labor Service and the Todt Organization (named after Fritz Todt). These guys were less specialized and had less heavy equipment so relied more on muscle power. They were mostly pulled back at the end of August to work on rail lines and infrastructure that needed more specialized labor.

There were also 10 Switching companies who took care of rail communications, switch construction, rail traffic management and anything else required to keep the rail network running efficiently on the regauged tracks.

The rail repair guys that come in as reinforcements and the ones from minor Axis nations are less skilled, same as the second type of German rail troops mentioned above. But all in all the Axis brought a good number of rail repair troops to the party.

The Soviets did a fair job of destroying infrastructure like water, fuel, switching, rolling stock and traffic control. Didn't have the time to do the same damage to tracks early on but they did get some done. A bit of irony, Germany was one of the nations that had helped the Soviets modernize their rail system before Hitler took over as dictator.

Just some factoids.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/29/2021 8:11:48 AM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

There were 48 Railroad Pioneer companies (Eisenbahn-pionier Kompanien) in the east in 1941. These guys were the elite rail repair engineers. Each company could regauge about 5km of rail per day and were trained to work independently in company sized units and typically did.

My understanding is that the regauging work is actually a red herring, since all it meant was detaching one of the rails, moving it inward on the sleeper, then reattaching it in the new position.

What I heard was that, due to the huge distances involved, Soviet trains were equipped to travel significantly further between coaling and watering stops, and so the Soviet network duly had these much further spaced than in the rest of Europe. As such, the Germans had to add extra coaling and watering stations across the whole network before they could run their own stock on it.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/29/2021 11:47:57 AM

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Aye, that too.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/29/2021 6:32:23 PM

golden delicious

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I'm breezing through these turns so quickly, now there's no fighting, that I don't even have a save from turn 36, so we'll go straight to turn 37. My assigned HRS are still slowly trickling away, now at 25.8, but large numbers of divisions are now resting at my various forward supply points and railheads. Combat has all but ceased with the Kerch peninsula cleared and the Volkhov pocket eliminated. This turn, however, saw a final push to eliminate the shattered remnants of the Moscow Front: Stalin's emaciated body was discovered face down in a suburban cellar, with a bullet wound in the back of his skull.

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< Message edited by golden delicious -- 11/29/2021 6:33:07 PM >

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 11/30/2021 6:21:02 PM

golden delicious

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Turn 38 and the southern half of AGN is really visibly suffering from the supply conditions. The nearest railhead for this force is at Novgorod so they get nothing, and must crawl through the mud to reach it. Note SS Polizei- which was already in the rear when the mud phase started- moving towards Bologoye to relieve some of the ruined divisions here. Further north, the picture is quite different, as the rail has almost reached the front and, with the Volkhov pocket eliminated, the whole force is resting, drawing a princely 13 supply each turn, while the Finns move northeast with a view to closing up to their planned stopline running south from Lake Onega once the mud freezes.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/1/2021 5:42:21 PM

golden delicious

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On turn 39 the Soviets finally start to move back up towards Moscow, in doing so threatening an immobile supply unit just north of Dimitrov. They're pretty weak here and I resolve to clear them away, but the mechanised divisions I have locally are all still too low on supply to act effectively. Instead, I commit my strategic reserve, 7. Flieger (less one regiment which is currently employed clearing the Estonian islands). I drop this around and in front of the lead Soviet units and, together with 20. Motorised and some supporting infantry which has a little supply, I'm able to isolate and then eliminate the most threatening units. I'll want to get this valuable division back to reserve as soon as possible in case it's needed again.

With the majority of my force now resting in supplied hexes, the drain has finally reversed and I'm back up over 27k HRS assigned. There are another 10k left in the pool which will need to make their way back into units over the next few turns before I'm at full strength ready for the winter.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/2/2021 5:54:44 PM

golden delicious

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Turn 40 and the Soviets are starting to creep forward from the Don. A number of rested units have painstakingly been brought forward and it should not be a problem to prevent any further advance here, ideally destroying these exposed forces once the freeze arrives. Note that the large stack southwest of Rossosh consists of nine Fortified Regions.

Almost the entire OOB is now out of contact with Soviet forces and either resting or moving back to the rail

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/3/2021 3:07:33 AM

larryfulkerson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious
Turn 40 and the Soviets are starting to creep forward from the Don. A number of rested units have painstakingly been brought forward and it should not be a problem to prevent any further advance here, ideally destroying these exposed forces once the freeze arrives. Note that the large stack southwest of Rossosh consists of nine Fortified Regions.

Almost the entire OOB is now out of contact with Soviet forces and either resting or moving back to the rail

I take it that the DON RIVER is off image to the NE? It's a good thing that your forces aren't in contact with them because that will boost the supply transfer process as the units soak up supply. Ideally, adjacent to some kind of HQ unit, I suppose. And also parked on a rail or at least a road, perferably in an Urban hex maybe. It's really too bad that TOAW4 doesn't have a "supply transport" mission for our bombers because as I understand it Von Palous ( spelling? ) needed supplies really badly at Stalingrad and precious little was carried by bomber aircraft in that supply push. It's my understanding that part of the reason the Germans capitulated was that they were never really supplied adequately. ever. And the head of the Lufftwafe ( Gobbels ? ) was on Hitler's ****list for a while after that event. You yourself could use such a function of your bombers now that the weather is turning so poor that strike missions would be a waste of AVgas. And they didn't have the good stuff that the Allies had, that 115 octane gas. The Germans has to do with something that approached 87 on a good day. And then they started using something called "synthetic" gas. Some kind of manmade gas of some kind. They were running out of things to try toward the end of the war. What say you?

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< Message edited by larryfulkerson -- 12/3/2021 3:09:26 AM >

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/3/2021 3:33:30 AM

rhinobones

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

. . . a waste of AVgas.

1940 my dad was in Wyoming training with the early B-17 squadrons. Some of the guys would sneak out a few gallons of aviation gas for their cars . . . burned up a few pistons.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/3/2021 8:05:47 AM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

I take it that the DON RIVER is off image to the NE?

It's the super river shown in the upper right portion of the screenshot.

quote:

It's a good thing that your forces aren't in contact with them because that will boost the supply transfer process as the units soak up supply. Ideally, adjacent to some kind of HQ unit, I suppose. And also parked on a rail or at least a road, perferably in an Urban hex maybe.

In that screenshot, every hex more than about five hexes out from Kharkov ( on the left hand side of the screenshot) has zero supply, which means being on the road or adjacent to an HQ doesn't help. That's why all my beaten up units are headed to the city. Fortunately, the mud phase is about to end and then the situation should improve.

quote:

It's really too bad that TOAW4 doesn't have a "supply transport" mission for our bombers because as I understand it Von Palous ( spelling? ) needed supplies really badly at Stalingrad and precious little was carried by bomber aircraft in that supply push. It's my understanding that part of the reason the Germans capitulated was that they were never really supplied adequately. ever. And the head of the Lufftwafe ( Gobbels ? ) was on Hitler's ****list for a while after that event. You yourself could use such a function of your bombers now that the weather is turning so poor that strike missions would be a waste of AVgas. And they didn't have the good stuff that the Allies had, that 115 octane gas. The Germans has to do with something that approached 87 on a good day. And then they started using something called "synthetic" gas. Some kind of manmade gas of some kind. They were running out of things to try toward the end of the war. What say you?

In this scenario, there are a lot of forward supply points and all of them are located at airfields, so to some extent this is reflected. For example the supply point for Kharkov is in the airfield northeast of the city.

The problem here is that in TOAW supply is always a blanket level which is applied to all units in the hex, rather than being quantified. The Luftwaffe had great success in delivering supplies to the Demyansk pocket where a total of 100,000 men were trapped until they broke out. This gave Hitler and Goering the confidence to rely on air transport for Stalingrad as you say, but this pocket contained three times as many men, at a time when the Luftwaffe's air transport capacity was already depleted (in part by losses at Demyansk). In TOAW, a supply point that can support one division can support 100 divisions. In real life, one division thrives and 100 starve.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/3/2021 6:14:09 PM

golden delicious

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Turn 41 and the Pioneers have not been wasting their time during the mud phase: here, in AGN's sector, the railhead is now just one hex from the frontline near Nebolchi, and the majority of Panzer Group 4 is now resting along it. When the freeze begins, this force will attempt to dash to the Rybinsk reservoir. As well as securing a strong forward position to hold during the winter, it's my hope that significant Soviet forces can be trapped against the Volga and destroyed, as AGC can support this offensive by pushing north from their positions off the southeast corner of the screenshot.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/4/2021 2:39:33 PM

golden delicious

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As the mud begins to freeze still my forces are largely too exhausted to fight and the turns go by quickly, so no save for turn 42. As of turn 43 AGC is still resting around Moscow but note here too the railhead has reached the front. In the coming turns I'll be using my temporary shock advantage to engage and destroy the Soviet forces which have crept into the area northeast of Moscow, before withdrawing back to these strong positions for the winter.

The mud phase has overall been good for the strength of my units as I've continued to receive replacements into the pool while fighting has largely ceased, and I expect my infantry to be close to 100% strength in Heavy Rifle Squads before the Winter, as I have almost 40,000 total between my Assigned and On Hand totals. It will take the Rumanians and Finns longer to recover and the last Finnish units to return from Overextended locations are stuck with very little equipment as a result- 7th Finnish Division is below 20% strength.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/5/2021 10:11:51 AM

golden delicious

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Turn 44 and the Wehrmacht has a bit more oomph in it. At the boundary between AGC and AGS just north of Voronezh, three mechanised divisions move to isolate and destroy the Soviet troops which have been holding between the two super rivers here for some time. Further north, 255. Infanterie is in trouble and additional infantry is coming out from reserve to smash the still very weak Soviet troops in this area. Elsewhere, AGS also eliminates the big stack of Fortress Region units near Rossosh. In AGN's sector, 1. Panzer is already half way to Rybinsk reservoir.

The Finnish Army seizes Belomorsk, cutting supply to the remaining Soviet forces in Karelia, so we're on track to occupy the planned stopline across the front, except for the eastern bulge along the Volga between Lipetsk and Ryazan, where I have neither the forces nor the supplies to advance further. Still, the majority of the Wehrmacht is resting at supply sources

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/6/2021 6:09:14 PM

golden delicious

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Turn 45 and 1. Panzer has almost reached Rybinsk reservoir. There are a lot of Soviet troops between here and AGC's positions just south of Kimry in the bottom right of the screenshot, at least a dozen divisions and supporting units. With 7. Flieger back in reserve, I'm eyeing up the possibility of using another airdrop to seize and destroy the three bridges over the Volga. As the super rivers are not yet frozen, if I can pull this off then this whole sector goes out of supply. AGN and AGC can then co-operate to relieve the paratroops before they're overwhelmed. It would be great to eliminate all these pieces before the Soviets get their winter shock bonus, but at the same time this offensive is going to really push AGN's supply lines to the limit, and I may end up exposed just when the counterattack hits.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/7/2021 6:23:50 PM

golden delicious

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Turn 46 and AGC's exercise to eliminate the Soviet forces close to Moscow is almost complete- when the Soviet winter offensive begins, there will be that much less strength to attack in this sector. Most of AGC is already back resting in reserve, or was never committed here, so this force should be back in top condition for the defensive phase. The remaining troops northeast of the river line will be pulled back over the next two turns or so.

Note at Kimry the top of the screenshot, showing how close AGC is to AGN's sector here: 7. Flieger will drop this turn so I hope to have the whole Soviet force southwest of Rybinsk out of supply by the end of the turn.

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/8/2021 6:18:33 PM

golden delicious

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Turn 47 and Axis forces on the Black Sea have taken the opportunity to seize the Taman peninsula, with an initial landing a few turns ago now reinforced, putting a big stack (shown here after multiple attacks) out of supply. Once this is cleared I'll dig in as I have no intention of being caught exposed in the Kuban when the Soviet winter offensive starts. Otherwise the whole of AGS' frontline as far north as Voronezh is quiet, with forces finally starting to get back into the green and in places deploy out to the winter stopline.

Elsewhere, the Rybinsk pocket is mysteriously still drawing a supply trace from somewhere, which is frustrating. These units are now all overextended but this means their losses go back to the pool and I want them out of the game. AGC is pulled back to Moscow with only a few divisions now screening forward areas, but 4., 7. and 12. Panzer are detached to support AGN and relieve 7. Flieger, elements of which are still far behind enemy lines.

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< Message edited by golden delicious -- 12/8/2021 6:19:26 PM >

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/10/2021 5:43:43 PM

golden delicious

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Turn 48 and the situation southwest of Rybinsk remains chaotic. The Soviet force here is now fully cut off from supply and I'm attacking it from all directions in the hopes of clearing this area before the Soviet Winter offensive, but this could start as early as next turn. Even without a shock bonus, my extremely poor supply situation along the Volga means that I'm fighting at a disadvantage in my battle to keep the bridgeheads closed- you can see that two beleaguered regiments of 7. Flieger have still yet to be relieved, although 1. Panzer will shift south to support them this turn (being relieved in turn by the fresh 3. Motorised.

Elsewhere on the front I'm only engaged in small, local actions as I prepare to meet the expected storm of the Soviet offensive in a few short turns. Fortunately, much of my force across the board has recovered its supply state following the end of the mud phase and I feel well prepared to fight on the defensive, especially around Moscow where I have much of AGC's strength concentrated.

My strategy will be to defend key sectors with a strong static line backed by artillery, but only where my supply situation is good or the ground difficult. Particularly this is Moscow but also the Don from Voronezh south, the Donetsk bend east of Rostov and the taiga between Lake Onega and Rybinsk Reservoir. The intervening areas will be left largely open, inviting Soviet advances, but with the majority of my mobile units positioned in the rear to counterattack once the enemy is exposed.

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< Message edited by golden delicious -- 12/10/2021 5:44:07 PM >

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/11/2021 1:19:10 PM

golden delicious

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Turn 49 and no Soviet offensive yet. AGC has firmly established the main line in front of Moscow, with the panzertruppen resting behind it. I should have liked to have it fortified before the Soviet offensive lands, but the poor condition of the red army and the strong position (behind river and canal lines which, though frozen, still give the attacker a penalty) plus the substantial artillery behind the line give me some confidence in being able to hold the Red Army here. Some mechanised troops have already fully replenished supply and so are moving off to the more open terrain to the south.

My main concern remains AGN. I wasn't able to stop some supplies trickling in to units in the Rybinsk salient this turn and my own forces here are in bad condition. If the Soviets make a major effort here I will have to fall back.

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Post #: 87

RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/12/2021 8:59:02 AM

golden delicious

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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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Turn 50, and it looks like the events which trigger the PO's offensive stance are independent from the shock effects, as the PO just started blasting on its turn 49 irrespective of not having a shock bonus. This was quite a sight as across the front masses of Soviet units which had hitherto been sat behind the line piled up in huge stacks and started hitting my dug-in units, but in most places these attacks just bounced off with no effect. One unfortunate event was that 2nd Shock Army pushed past 11. Infanterie, and when I tried to withdraw the division it exploded from the disengagement attacks. The whole division will be lost. However, the area near Rybinsk that I have been worried about didn't see a serious influx of Soviet troops and so there's no disaster here, for now.

On the Donetsk bend, one rifle division slipped over the river and threatens my position, but I'll cut this off and destroy it as I have 11. Armee here now (I think this is fair play given that 11. Armee's job of clearing the Crimea is already complete).

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"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 88

RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/14/2021 6:09:30 PM

golden delicious

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From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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Turn 51, the shock effects triggered last turn so I've now experienced a Soviet turn at disadvantage, and I have to confess I find the results pretty disappointing. I was expecting a real struggle for survival here but despite piling up a huge number of pieces, the Soviets continue to bounce off my Moscow defences (taking massive losses in the process), and are anaemic elsewhere. I did feel it necessary to abandon the Ryazan salient, which is the remnant of my easternmost advance in AGC. When these troops make it back over the Oka river southeast of Moscow, they'll dig in and form the extreme end of my main Moscow line. To the south, my elastic defence is in evidence as two rifle divisions are encircled by 18. Motorised plus 900. Lehr and the Grossdeutschland regiment.

If this carries on then it's not going to be much of a match; I will wait out the period of Soviet superiority and then roll over them later in the Winter when it passes (the shock bonus for the Soviets is supposed to last ten turns, then there are another 20 until the Spring mud). As noted on Larry's thread, a contributing factor here is the poor state of Soviet rail repair, and there is no Soviet railhead within six hexes of the main Moscow line, but even so I was expecting to take a lot more punishment than this.

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"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 89

RE: Another Barbarossa AAR - 12/15/2021 6:06:02 PM

golden delicious

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Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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Turn 52 and Soviet attacks continue to be largely ineffectual, but one area I'm feeling the pressure is south of Rybinsk reservoir. My supply here is very low (although not zero) as the railhead is a way back at Pestovo, and rail construction seems to have slowed to a crawl now that the ground is frozen. Although the Soviets, too, are in a bad supply condition, I've been taking a bit of a beating here and so this turn have made the decision to pull back to a new line along the road, where I am at least above the overextended threshold. The really battered units will be pulled back to the rail as fresh ones come up to replace them; I do actually have a few of these as I've been cycling units in and out since the mud phase.

Besides the supply condition I'm also worried about my north flank, as the Soviets have been infiltrating units over the upper Volga here (one is visible in this screenshot having already been pinned by two of my divisions), and is trying to work westerwards further north with 2nd Shock Army, though I have plenty of good infantry to hold them in place.

Otherwise it's smooth sailing and my losses to the cold (via a nasty 2% pestilence effect) far outweigh my combat casualties.

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< Message edited by golden delicious -- 12/15/2021 6:08:05 PM >

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"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 90

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RE: Another Barbarossa AAR