RE: About scenarios difficulty

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RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/21/2021 5:57:24 PM

BeirutDude

Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaQueen

I'm terrible at most publicly available scenarios. I find them to be completely unplayable or infuriating to the point I have to stop. It's not because I can't strike targets. I'm great at killing stuff. I just think that I execute the planning process I've been taught, and many scenarios are a sort of assembled "splat" of stuff that should really be a different scenario or even a different game.

And the real shame in this comment is that , YOU, probably more than anyone else on the board has the opportunity to improve the quality of many of the publicly developed scenarios though positive advice and a mentoring attitude toward those who are giving FREELY of their own time to attempt to advance the game and keep it in the forefront with new content. Instead you chose to go the other route and consider it your role to demine and chastise others in their work. Would be nice if you actually shared your scenarios with us! Personally, I've been hearing for three or four years now how great your work is without ever seeing any evidence of it in the Community Scenarios! If you see an area for improvement in a scenario I designed I would like to hear about it but with the respect due one who has produced AND SHARED the work with the community. If you get on the boards insulting others, of course they are going to shut down to you, but offer constructive criticism and maybe the quality of scenarios will improve. Hell I would love to learn from some one who is an analyst who sits in the back of the room in meetings I can't attend, but I don't want to be insulted by them in the process!

To quote San Rayburn, "Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a good carpenter to build one." It would be OUTSTANDING if you helped others become better scenario designers rather than demeaning others. That begins with treating others with the respect you would like afforded to you. Be a good carpenter (mentor)...

< Message edited by BeirutDude -- 10/21/2021 5:58:53 PM >

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(in reply to SeaQueen)

Post #: 31

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/21/2021 6:19:27 PM

BobTank63

Posts: 52
Joined: 9/23/2021
Status: offline

To address the original question, I find playing smaller scenarios first and building up from there is good. The skills you learn in smaller scenarios can be applied to bigger scenarios.

Mark Gellis's smaller scenarios are great for learning stuff. Also, Half-Life Expert's guide on the Steam page has a list of a lot of scenarios that help one learn, with the list being split into different skills. I recommend checking it out.

Kashmire Fire was overwhelming for me too. The second mission really challenges one's planning skills as there is a lot of targets and assets. One thing to keep in mind is that it is okay if one doesn't get all targets. You just have to get enough to get a triumph. Focus on hitting targets one at a time. That's what allowed me to get to Mission 7 (I stopped there because M7 has BS in the form of Indian ballistic missiles that the player isn't told about in the briefing).

(in reply to nukkxx5058)

Post #: 32

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/21/2021 11:27:51 PM

RoryAndersonCDT

Posts: 1830
Joined: 6/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeirutDude
Personally, I've been hearing for three or four years now how great your work is without ever seeing any evidence of it in the Community Scenarios!

I'll vouch for the excellence of SeaQueen's work with Command.

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(in reply to BeirutDude)

Post #: 33

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/21/2021 11:54:37 PM

BeirutDude

Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

I'll vouch for the excellence of SeaQueen's work with Command.

And I do not doubt it for a second. She is clearly extremely knowledgeable and I have learned a great deal reading her posts. That said, NOBODY wants to spend two, three or four weeks of their spare time designing a scenario they think others will enjoy to have it derisively run down. Personally, I think I have proven in the playtesting posts I'm more than open to suggestions for scenario improvement, but like anyone else I appreciate that being done respectfully. If there is a difference of opinion it is the designer's scenario, but if you make a persuasive case in a fashion which isn't insulting I suspect most designers will hear the individual out.

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Post #: 34

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/22/2021 12:57:44 AM

boogabooga

Posts: 457
Joined: 7/18/2018
Status: offline

Deep breaths BeirutDude.

FWIW, I liked some of your scenarios ;)

(in reply to BeirutDude)

Post #: 35

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/22/2021 1:14:06 AM

BeirutDude

Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

FWIW, I liked some of your scenarios ;)

To be honest there are some of mine that I don't even like anymore!

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Post #: 36

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/22/2021 5:10:01 PM

BDukes

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: boogabooga

Deep breaths BeirutDude.

FWIW, I liked some of your scenarios ;)

I do too. BD's work is great.

I still think this string is a contest in kookery amongst the spectrumy. Don't get sucked into it.

Mike

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Post #: 37

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/22/2021 5:13:17 PM

altipueri

Posts: 869
Joined: 11/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkins

While I agree learning the editor and lua is, in the long run, the best approach to CMO, we can also understand that many players with families do not have the time to do so. More often than not, a player gets home from a busy day and just wants to grab a cold beer and have fun killing bad guys. Scenarios and DLC have not supported those casual players. They are large and difficult. No player wants to spend months in tutorials every night nor ever winning. I wonder how many copies of Command have dried up on hard drives because players can't get into it? 90 percent?

I'm one of your 90% - and same with many other games - so I am down to playing mostly the games where I can adjust the difficulty level so that I get about a 50:50 win/loss ratio.

I'm not interested in showing the grognards that I'm as good as them or know more about the XYZ missile system than anybody else.

The game and scenario developers can set their standard level but I think they would get more sales and popularity if the market were effectively expanded by them enabling noobs and drunks to easily adjust the game difficulty.

(in reply to kevinkins)

Post #: 38

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/22/2021 5:28:51 PM

thewood1

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

While very much prefer small and middling scenarios, if you look at the most active designers and players, they seem to like monster multi-thousand unit scenarios. I think thats why the DLCs tend to skew towards the complex. But if you are will to play a lot of non-standard US vs Red scenarios or ones from the 50s and 60s, there are a lot of sub800 unit scenarios out there.

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(in reply to altipueri)

Post #: 39

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/23/2021 9:39:16 AM

nukkxx5058

Posts: 2932
Joined: 2/3/2005
From: France
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As an example, I'm currently playing Brass Drum (first try ever, discovering the scen as play) and I am very surprised to see that so far, I'm doing very well. Unlike Kashmire Fire, the difficulty level seems very well balanced. Not that I disliked kashmire Fire, I really like the DLC. But I can't win any of its scenarios at the first try.

And BTW Bass Drum is very entertaining ! Great scen.

(in reply to thewood1)

Post #: 40

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/23/2021 10:32:41 AM

thewood1

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Joined: 11/27/2005
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Brass Drum is a great starter for newish players. It has a little bit of every kind of combat. Its also one you can just build missions and let it play out.

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Post #: 41

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/23/2021 1:16:50 PM

BDukes

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nukkxx5058

As an example, I'm currently playing Brass Drum (first try ever, discovering the scen as play) and I am very surprised to see that so far, I'm doing very well. Unlike Kashmire Fire, the difficulty level seems very well balanced. Not that I disliked kashmire Fire, I really like the DLC. But I can't win any of its scenarios at the first try.

Who cares. You win some, you lose some. Let's level set a bit. DLCs are less than the price of a movie ticket.

quote:

And BTW Bass Drum is very entertaining ! Great scene.

Yeah it is a good scenario.

Mike

Mike

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Post #: 42

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 10/23/2021 10:26:40 PM

BeirutDude

Posts: 2625
Joined: 4/27/2013
From: Jacksonville, FL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thewood1

While very much prefer small and middling scenarios, if you look at the most active designers and players, they seem to like monster multi-thousand unit scenarios. I think thats why the DLCs tend to skew towards the complex. But if you are will to play a lot of non-standard US vs Red scenarios or ones from the 50s and 60s, there are a lot of sub800 unit scenarios out there.

I'm trying to trend away from the monsters and into the small to medium range these days. I'm working on greater proficiency with Lua over more units.

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Post #: 43

RE: About scenarios difficulty - 1/24/2022 1:54:46 AM

hrfepo1

Posts: 108
Joined: 9/19/2017
Status: offline

I so much agree with you. I have a full-time job and I got into this game to be up to date on modern warfare. The designs of the scenarios need to provide more information regarding the objectives and rationale so that the weekend warriors like me can learn. If the mission is unachievable then say so and don't keep me wondering for days what did I do wrong or can do better.

I do spend time preparing for each scenario before I press the play button. For example, I am currently playing Kasmir Fire's "Chaos" Scenario and it is very frustrating to see how all Pakistani platforms get blasted as if they were fighting space aliens. My question is what is the designer trying to demonstrate? I have not learned anything other than according to the designer, the Pakistani airforce is incompetent and outdated.

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Post #: 44