Escorting B29 Missions to Tokyo

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Escorting B29 Missions to Tokyo

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Escorting B29 Missions to Tokyo

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Escorting B29 Missions to Tokyo - 11/6/2021 10:55:57 AM

Hano

Posts: 77
Joined: 2/5/2009
Status: offline

I'm at a stage in the game where my B29's can hit Tokyo, not unsuprisingly there are significant concentrations of fighters there who take a toll of them in damage/destroyed.

I have put a lot of effort into capturing a base that is 17 hexes away from @Tokyo, Toyohara in the Sakhalin Islands, I have 300 Mustang P51D's there that I plan to use to escort in raids from Shikuka (range 21) in the Sakhalin Islands and Paramushiro-Jima (range 30)in the Kurile Islands. I have AF HQ's in each of the B29 bases, but not yet at Toyohara although it is within the command radius of Shikuka

My intention is to use Toyohara in the same way the US used Iwo-Jima and Okinawa to escort bomber raids on Tokyo and launch Sweeps as a Counter-Air campaign to whittle down the Japanese Air Force.

So far -
P51's have failed to escort the B29's and when I tried to get them to sweep Tokyo they did nothing.

The P51's normal radius is 15, extended is 19, I know that IRL P51's based at Iwo-Jima Swept Kanoya in Kyushu which is a game range of 16 so comparable to my range 17 sweeps of Tokyo....what am I doing wrong?

With regard to sweeps...my understanding is that it is a low level attack by F/FB to hit airfields and take out air defences through destruction on the ground or air to air combat. To me the logic would be that a percentage go in at low level - 100ft and the the remainder act as a counter air to deal with any CAP and then strafe and leave. So in game terms what altitude do you set sweep operations at? Or do you have a low level attack force and higher level escort?

So any suggestions or comments please?

Just realised why the F/FB failed to sweep - max range sat incorrectly that will have an effect on Escort too I suppose

< Message edited by Hano -- 11/6/2021 11:04:58 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Escorting B29 Missions to Tokyo - 11/6/2021 11:09:01 AM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

While the game does model fighters escorting bombers when the fighters are not based at the same airfield as the bombers, it seems to do a better job of this when neither group is very far from the other, especially with the fighters being very close to the target, it does not do so well when attempting to vector escorting fighters in from long distances.

The best way to ensure fighters escort bombers is to base them at the same airfield.

Air combat in the game gives huge advantages to altitude. Game fighter sweeps are not conducted for the purpose of impacting the airfield, but rather what is stationed there in the way of fighters. Sweeping at 100 ft is going after the airfield, not the fighters. To sweep the fighters you want to use altitudes that will give your fighters the dive advantage without being so stratospheric as to completely miss the enemy fighters.

The game also heavily penalizes fighters in the escort role, which will make you P51s very vulnerable. You may not like the results you get once you manage to get them flying escort missions.

Your best bet for softening up the enemy fighters is to sweep with P47s. The P47 is the preeminent fighter on the Allied side.
This, obviously, means getting air bases in P47 sweeping range.

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to Hano)

Post #: 2

RE: Escorting B29 Missions to Tokyo - 11/6/2021 12:16:21 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

What month is it? The fighters may be failing the blizzard roll. Open the strategic map and have a look at the cold weather zone. You are trying to operate out of arctic bases. Also, in AE, normal range (meaning can be with drop tanks) gets you normal ops. Extended range is for emergencies and sends fatigue and morale in the wrong direction. Unless you have very aggressive, high air skill fighter group commanders, they won't launch. Inspiration rating also features, because morale is another die roll you need to pass.

Put your B-29s on night ops and bomb at 7000 feet. Target manpower so they load incendiaries and start firestorms. Which, incidentally, is exactly what 20th AF did historically, before someone starts whining about house rules.

Bihoro is out of the cold zone, may well be poorly defended, can be supplied by cargo TFs crossing the Kuriles to the north, coming in to the port under fighter cover (send at least about 800 nav squad's worth of base forces to optimise port activities, because it's only a 4 level max) and can be built into a size 9 airbase. There is the solution to your problem. You can base the entire 20th AF, with its escort groups (reassigned* to 20th AF control) in temperate weather, although, it is still in the northern tier of weather zones where there are are a lot of "no fly" days.

*Assigning the escort groups to the bomber HQ (or at least one in the same command HQ chain) is important, there are various coordination die rolls affected by that [per Alfred]. Also, make sure the base is assigned to the same command HQ as the Senior Air HQ there, if airgroup stacking is a problem early on.

In order to answer your query with any greater precision, I would need to see screen shots of the fighter group screens, and also know what the command assignments are.

Also, have an oracular ability to predictthe weather

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 3

RE: Escorting B29 Missions to Tokyo - 11/6/2021 12:26:50 PM

Trugrit

Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Complex issue. There are a lot of factors involved in coordination.

There is a good air coordination guide available:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2382494
Pay careful attention to the D0�s and Dont�s

Here is another good Thread:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2693781

From that thread here is a post from Michael:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2698839

Sweeps are used to beat down enemy fighter cap. They typically go in at high altitude.
The purpose is air to air combat over an enemy base.

In your case with 300 fighters I would not focus on escort but instead use multiple
high altitude sweeps over Tokyo to clear the enemy cap. When you beat down the
enemy cap, then go in with the bombing missions.

I don�t run sweep and escort at the same time. Sweeps do not coordinate.
The Elf gives good advice.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2272044
Read the whole Thread.

I never go in with fighters low over a heavily defended base like Tokyo.
If I want to hit the airfield I do it with heavy bombers.

(in reply to Hano)

Post #: 4

RE: Escorting B29 Missions to Tokyo - 11/6/2021 12:34:31 PM

Yaab

Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline

Hano, the biggest problem in your setup is weather.

Base A - bombers
Base B - fighters

If Base B has bad weather, the bombers will fly unescorted. If Base A has bad weather, no one will fly.

This is why I like to put fighters/bombers in the same base, so I can reduce weather influence on coordination. If it is not possible and you have to use two bases, then check weather foreacsts for bases A and B and fly only in Clear/Cloudy weather. Even Light Rain weather will hurt coordination.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 11/6/2021 12:36:20 PM >

(in reply to Trugrit)

Post #: 5