Is the AI this terrible

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Is the AI this terrible - 11/10/2021 12:01:41 PM

heliodorus04

Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline

After playing the 1939 scenario into 1943 as the Axis side, I learned enough to see how the AI might handle the Axis side on its own. I turned the AI enhancements up all the way and started the 1940 scenario.

I was terribly disappointed by my results over several play-tests. First, while I set up a defence of France, placing most front-line French units in Garrison. The Germans could only barely penetrate the first line defenses, and when rain came in September, I started over.

The next time, I decided to literally do nothing. I didn't build anything. I didn't move anything. I just clicked end-turn through till the results were so bad for the Axis that I quit playing.

Even doing nothing, the Axis cannot seem to over-run France before the winter of 1940 sets in. To me, it's a complete failure. I watched it move units north and south behind the maginot line as if it were going to invade Switzerland, but then it moved the troops back north. It moved in to France, and then moved back out with key units at key times. It made pointless attacks and refused to surround and isolate.

Am I playing some older version of the game that I'm not aware of? My level of disappointment with the AI is so high that I can only recommend that people avoid the product entirely. It was an exercise only in learning and mastering an interface before recognizing that the 'opponent' is incapable of meaningful play.

I know this is harsh as a set of comments, but I want to like this game. Is there any chance to enhance the AI that I'm not aware of?

< Message edited by heliodorus04 -- 11/10/2021 1:41:40 PM >

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Post #: 1

RE: AI is terrible - 11/10/2021 12:51:12 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

Answered on Steam post.

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Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to heliodorus04)

Post #: 2

RE: AI is terrible - 11/10/2021 1:02:20 PM

heliodorus04

Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline

Thanks - I saw it over there.
How can I tell what version I'm using? If I'm playing on steam, am I not using their "most current" and "officially approved by designer" version?
Should I be using the Steam beta?

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Post #: 3

RE: AI is terrible - 11/10/2021 5:10:43 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

Should be. I wrote open the game, look lower left, version #... latest should be 1.41

Usually veteran and optimal are a good combination for the A.I. from what players told me.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to heliodorus04)

Post #: 4

RE: AI is terrible - 11/14/2021 3:03:05 PM

heliodorus04

Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/1/2008
From: Nashville TN
Status: offline

I'm pretty disappointed by the AI, really. It's somewhat capable in defense in some places, but overall, it's just not thinking properly.

I am finding the AI Allied UK player easy to conquer in the North African theater by invading first Cypress then Syria, and from there Iraq and the Persian oil fields.

The AI just has no interest in defending its conquests east of Alexandria, nor of re-conquering Iraq/Syria if they fall. In every game I've played I've been able to starve Egyptian forces (there needs to be a primary supply source in Egypt).

Italian subs can park off of Gibraltar and starve out the defenders there and the UK will do nothing meaningful about it.

Going forward, I have to play dumb and avoid taking those steps in order to give the UK force a better chance of not just beating me but survive long enough to get the chance at all.

It's not a matter of difficulty setting: it's a matter of AI sub-routines and logic to recognize Cypress/Syria/Palestine as a primary way of defeating the UK oil supply. Even after the Soviet Union and the US are involved and Persia is divided by the Allies and conquered, neither the USSR nor US/UK attempted to re-take Persia/Iraq or southern Egypt.

The AI would benefit from understanding how to supply forces in Africa (or Norway) by naval force.

The AI would benefit from not confronting German naval forces within Axis land-based aircraft range. The invasion of Norway/Denmark has routinely cost the UK one or two aircraft carriers.

Other stuff I'd like to know:
Is it possible for me to take over the Allied side in a game started as single-player? I want to know if the UK is even re-building convoys and escorts it loses during the submarine war routine. I'd like to know what the Soviet manpower/stockpile situation is.

So far I'm not a big fan of the Soviet ability to make winter offensives, even with an Axis occupation that is less in 1941 than it was historically (same for summer 42).

Is the AI burning trucks by the thousands each year like I am? The only way to keep a fighting force in the field is to burn trucks like they're Spice and you're a Harkonen... (Couldn't we just devote more of our industry to a generic "Truck Stockpile" rather than having to micro-manage that every turn? If nothing else, the AI should be doing that better than I am, right?

I think it's a fun game, and a good game, but AI is too weak right now as a Single player AI for me to recommend it. As a two-player game, though, I think it will be fantastic.

Tweaking experience and Effectiveness, while helpful, are no substitutes for an AI the understands what parts of the map it needs to adequately defend and how to properly protect its oil economy.

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Post #: 5

RE: AI is terrible - 11/14/2021 4:09:51 PM

sveint

Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline

Despite what some news or social media posts would have you believe, we are infinitely far from real AI.

If true AI is the moon, we have perhaps started wiggling our toes.

Expecting a capable opponent in WarPlan, or any other similar game (like Civilization) - it's just not possible.

(in reply to heliodorus04)

Post #: 6

RE: AI is terrible - 11/14/2021 4:51:01 PM

ncc1701e

Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: heliodorus04

As a two-player game, though, I think it will be fantastic.

It is. Jump into PBEM. You will see its true potential.

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Post #: 7

RE: AI is terrible - 11/14/2021 4:58:11 PM

Nirosi

Posts: 1776
Joined: 9/17/2017
Status: offline

quote:

It is. Jump into PBEM. You will see its true potential

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Post #: 8

RE: AI is terrible - 11/14/2021 6:38:31 PM

canuckgamer

Posts: 737
Joined: 6/23/2004
Status: offline

I won't even buy a game unless it has multiplayer. There is no point playing any game against the AI and the only thing I use single player for is to learn the game mechanics. To confirm what ncc1701e and Nirosi said, we are having a blast playing this game PBEM.

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Post #: 9