Soviet Winter Range?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Soviet Winter Range?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command Series >> Strategic Command WWII: World at War >> Soviet Winter Range?

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Soviet Winter Range? - 11/24/2021 4:49:34 AM

redrum68

Posts: 1202
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: offline

It appears Soviet Winter range is 25 hexes from Kirov which means a good portion of the Baltic and Ukraine aren't covered. This doesn't really seem historical and can lead to gamey moves where the Axis pull some units back a few hexes to avoid the penalty. At a minimum it would be better to extend this several hexes or change it to check from multiple locations within USSR not just Kirov.

Post #: 1

RE: Soviet Winter Range? - 11/24/2021 5:57:10 AM

SittingDuck

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline

Really needs to be somewhat random. A range of like 20,30 (or some such). Something where people don't assume.

(in reply to redrum68)

Post #: 2

RE: Soviet Winter Range? - 11/24/2021 8:41:36 AM

BillRunacre

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

There is a small strip of territory in the Baltic States that isn't affected, running literally from Tallin through Parnu to Riga and Siauliai.

You're right that units could pull back to avoid the winter, but how bad would the winter have been in such areas that are pretty close to Germany and able to receive supplies by sea too?

_____________________________

(in reply to SittingDuck)

Post #: 3

RE: Soviet Winter Range? - 11/24/2021 8:42:22 AM

BillRunacre

Posts: 4945
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SittingDuck

Really needs to be somewhat random. A range of like 20,30 (or some such). Something where people don't assume.

In principle I agree, but I fear that a range of hexes like 20-30 would frequently lead to the Axis suffering a lot less, rather than more, from the winter event?

_____________________________

(in reply to SittingDuck)

Post #: 4

RE: Soviet Winter Range? - 11/24/2021 2:19:22 PM

redrum68

Posts: 1202
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre
There is a small strip of territory in the Baltic States that isn't affected, running literally from Tallin through Parnu to Riga and Siauliai.

You're right that units could pull back to avoid the winter, but how bad would the winter have been in such areas that are pretty close to Germany and able to receive supplies by sea too?

Yeah, which means you can stand in Tallin (7 hexes from Leningrad) and avoid the Soviet Winter! Even just increasing to say 27 hexes to eliminate that strip in the northern Baltics would be a significant improvement. The other problem area is west of Rostov where you can sit 3 hexes away from Rostov and avoid Soviet Winter. I know there is maybe some argument that winter is less severe in southern Ukraine and Crimea but from a game perspective it makes it easy to manipulate. So the easiest adjustment would be increasing from 25 to 27-28 hexes maybe even 30 if you don't mind picking up a few hexes of East Prussia. To better cover Ukraine, you could alternatively switch city from Kirov to Kazan as 25 hexes from there ends up covering most of the problem areas.

A more drastic change would be having Soviet Winter occur over multiple turns but have a lesser effect each turn so its harder to just pull back for a turn.

(in reply to BillRunacre)

Post #: 5

RE: Soviet Winter Range? - 11/24/2021 3:30:36 PM

firsteds

Posts: 52
Joined: 3/24/2021
Status: offline

I am not sure this is a massive issue. If the Axis pull back a couple of hexes that gives the Russians the chance to reinforce, rotate, organise and upgrade. Even if you do nothing you get an extra turn of entrenchment. You can't upgrade (AA and InfW) if you are being hard pressed by the Axis. I often find there is an upgrade waiting for Russia but you don't get many chances to do it for frontline troops and you don't want to lose entrenchment in places like Rostov. Also the winter event date is slightly random (isn't it?). So the Axis player would have to be cautious for a couple of turns.

(in reply to redrum68)

Post #: 6

RE: Soviet Winter Range? - 11/24/2021 4:08:43 PM

redrum68

Posts: 1202
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: firsteds
I am not sure this is a massive issue. If the Axis pull back a couple of hexes that gives the Russians the chance to reinforce, rotate, organise and upgrade. Even if you do nothing you get an extra turn of entrenchment. You can't upgrade (AA and InfW) if you are being hard pressed by the Axis. I often find there is an upgrade waiting for Russia but you don't get many chances to do it for frontline troops and you don't want to lose entrenchment in places like Rostov. Also the winter event date is slightly random (isn't it?). So the Axis player would have to be cautious for a couple of turns.

So generally Axis doesn't move all their units back just planes/tanks to avoid the penalty so they can still use corps/armies to hold the line then surge back with their tanks/planes which avoided the morale/damage penalty.

(in reply to firsteds)

Post #: 7

RE: Soviet Winter Range? - 11/24/2021 4:08:45 PM

petedalby

Posts: 179
Joined: 12/18/2020
Status: offline

The effects of Winter are already more severe following the recent update. That combined with the impact on Supply sources is making things a lot tougher for the Axis. Yes - the Axis player can mitigate the effects but there are downsides to that so please don't get too carried away.

(in reply to firsteds)

Post #: 8

RE: Soviet Winter Range? - 11/24/2021 4:10:25 PM

redrum68

Posts: 1202
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: petedalby
The effects of Winter are already more severe following the recent update. That combined with the impact on Supply sources is making things a lot tougher for the Axis. Yes - the Axis player can mitigate the effects but there are downsides to that so please don't get too carried away.

Agree but this makes avoiding the penalty even more beneficial as before the penalty didn't matter that much. I'm mostly advocating to just close the "loopholes" not make it more severe.

(in reply to petedalby)

Post #: 9

RE: Soviet Winter Range? - 11/25/2021 1:26:15 AM

SittingDuck

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

quote:

ORIGINAL: SittingDuck

Really needs to be somewhat random. A range of like 20,30 (or some such). Something where people don't assume.

In principle I agree, but I fear that a range of hexes like 20-30 would frequently lead to the Axis suffering a lot less, rather than more, from the winter event?

I really meant it on principle, as an example. The data values I have no clue about and haven't looked at. But the variability I think is core. It could also be that a specific strength line needs to be made for a few different spots, differentiated from each other as to severity.

I think it's important to realize that Germany really does have severe winters. Not as long as eastern europe, but there is a reason so many Germans live in Mexico. I've openly had them discuss their reasons for immigrating there, and the cold/dark is a core of it.

I think the thing to do is look at the actual weather for those years, and construct a modified version (if one wants historical weather, vs typical weather for those regions).

(in reply to BillRunacre)

Post #: 10