Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Understanding Air Group Training Missions

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Understanding Air Group Training Missions Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 5:49:36 AM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		From the manual section 8.2.1.4, am I to understand that assigning a IJN air group at 50 exp will not raise the exp? Same goes for an IJA air group at 55 exp? So don't bother to assign groups with >= that exp on the 'training' mission? It would matter for individual pilots I assumes since the avg is what is displayed?

thanks for any help here

_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu
Post #: 1
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 5:57:11 AM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		Hmmm it's way more complicated since there are like 8 columns of skill experience types. So does training help to increase all or just the ones that apply for that type of plane?

_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 2
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 6:21:23 AM   
jdsrae


Posts: 2716
Joined: 3/1/2010
From: Gandangara Country
Status: offline 		You can train pilots in a specific skill, or general training which increases skills at random.
Experience can also increase while training specific skills.
It is harder to teach old dogs new tricks.


_____________________________

Currently playing my first PBEM, no house rules Scenario 1 as IJ.
AAR link (no SolInvictus): https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4684655

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 3
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 7:47:38 AM   
Maallon


Posts: 196
Joined: 12/27/2020
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Chapter 8.2.1.4 only applies to ground units.
Pilots can train their experience and skills endlessly, though there is a barrier at 70 there it gets painfully slow and not worthwhile anymore.
Combat is generally the better teacher, after your guys reach the 70 mark.
This is not depended on nationality.

edit: What is dependent on nationality is the maximum starting experience of your pilots once you pull them from the replacement pool. You can see that starting experience in the intelligence screen under "Pilot Replacements".
The values here are scenario dependent.

< Message edited by Maallon -- 11/30/2021 7:52:57 AM >

(in reply to jdsrae)
Post #: 4
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 11:58:54 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		70 is both the minimum and maximum for me. I don't activate any pilot for actual combat who is not at level 70 in the skills I want him to use. You can and will move pilots around to some extent based on the talents they exhibit. Each pilot learns at their own rate. You might start a pilot out training to be a fighter pilot and decide after a while that he just isn't cut out for that and move him to something else. With the IJA early in the war you start out with a lot more squadrons and planes than you actually need and I tend to use the bulk of them for training. The IJN transports are way, way better than the IJA ones so they'll be handling that function mostly. That said you'll never not need to have some Helen transports and you need to keep at least a small production level of those throughout the war. The same really for the Helen bomber, though I prefer the Peggy and especially the TB version. And always remember bombers can be used in lieu of transports. Anyway I have those IJA squadrons set to General Training and train them up to a Defn level of 50 before I release them into the reserve. By that point you can see who the natural fighter pilots are and move them to fighter squadrons training in that skill. Once I have them at 70 at that skill I try to have a large fraction of those pilots training in Naval Attack and Low Naval Attack skills. A lot of the Japanese Fs and FBs have great potential in bomb load and range, the Oscar series in particular. I build Oscars all the way to the end, they come in extremely handy in a lot of roles. When I said 70 is my minimum there is an exception. I often end up throwing raw recruits in for the transport function. They manage.

_____________________________



(in reply to Maallon)
Post #: 5
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 12:09:23 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		By the way I think you will find yourself using at least half of your total force in squadrons in the training function. Even with that the case you'll be having active squadrons training in secondary skills when things are idle or slow in their sector. ASW is a good example of something worth training idle front line units in. Also my method is to have a training squadron train in one skill only and graduate pilots (one at a time) when they reach 70 in that skill by releasing them to the reserve and then have another squadron training in a different skill pick them up. This results in some inefficiency in that pilots train faster in groups where the other pilots are at a similar level. I find however that because each pilot trains at their own rate maintaining groups of pilots becomes impossible, so you end up with each training squadron having the full spectrum of students. I try and visit each training squadron at least once a week to keep the process moving along.

_____________________________



(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 6
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 12:21:49 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		As to priorities on types of skills, with the exception of attacks on airfields and ports I rarely utilize the ground attack function for any type of plane. For me the results never justify the expense. If you're playing the Allied side that calculation would be different. Bomb anything and everything with B-29s when you have them. Naval attack is paramount for all functions except transport and recon. It is important to have your search plane squadrons trained in that as they will attack any ships they encounter as part of the search function, and the results can be significant. They will tend to pick up ASW skills at the same time as a matter of course. One thing though, don't put pilots trained in torpedo attack on the 4Es. You can't afford to use them that way and torpedoes shorten their search range anyway. As a matter of fact I've never seen a plane ordered to use torpedoes attack with torpedoes when searching. I think they just go up with bombs regardless. Plus torpedoes aren't the weapon of choice for when you encounter subs.

_____________________________



(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 7
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 12:22:01 PM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline 		I suggest that you go through this thread with some caveats:

FAQ / Info for Newb's

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

One of the biggest caveat is that some of the information presented has changed, as an example, there is no "Glide Bombing" any more. The person who posted this has not been online since last June and that was on the WITE2 forum. I suppose that someone could suggest to him corrections or even put all of them in the thread in on post.

Here is another good link:

Useful Info for Beginners

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2576157

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 8
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 5:29:02 PM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I suggest that you go through this thread with some caveats:

FAQ / Info for Newb's

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2260137

One of the biggest caveat is that some of the information presented has changed, as an example, there is no "Glide Bombing" any more. The person who posted this has not been online since last June and that was on the WITE2 forum. I suppose that someone could suggest to him corrections or even put all of them in the thread in on post.

Here is another good link:

Useful Info for Beginners

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2576157


Wow, that link is amazing. Thanks

_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 9
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 5:30:44 PM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you all for the prompt responses! I'll say one thing, WitP is an incredible game with such depth, but the community is just as incredible.

Would I be dreaming to think of a WitP2? Gary can combine the land engine of WitE2 with the best of WitP, plus a few other odds and ends improvements to UI and game play

< Message edited by abulbulian -- 11/30/2021 5:32:53 PM >

_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 10
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 5:40:22 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		You want to see depth? Download RHS mod for WitP:AE, look at China and weep.

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 11
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 5:41:12 PM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1047
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline 		Quick question, when you are in the air group screen and you set mission to training and it shows 'Patrol Level' and below 'Train <NUM>' with the widget to inc and dec. Is the number there the % that will train and the remaining % will fly patrol? Some have a 'Rest' displayed instead of 'Patrol'?

Do I have this right and what do people usually set the % to?

thanks

_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 12
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 6:34:25 PM   
Trugrit


Posts: 947
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		You have it right. Percent allocation.

There is a screen beyond this one which I seldom use.
Note when you see yellow text you can usually click on it
and you will get a different screen or option.

You should mouse over every part of the displays and read the fly outs.
They are important.

How the percentages are set up depends on the situation.
Usually I go 100% on one task only.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Trugrit -- 11/30/2021 6:35:49 PM >

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 13
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 8:30:46 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		It might make sense to split search and ASW in a carrier squadron but otherwise not. Search is ASW, too, just less intense but to twice the range (potentially). That's why search pilots also benefit from ASW training.

_____________________________



(in reply to Trugrit)
Post #: 14
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 11/30/2021 11:00:07 PM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
You might start a pilot out training to be a fighter pilot and decide after a while that he just isn't cut out for that and move him to something else.


By Dog, if I train you to be a fighter pilot, you gosh darn WILL be a fighter pilot!

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 15
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 12/1/2021 12:28:59 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
You might start a pilot out training to be a fighter pilot and decide after a while that he just isn't cut out for that and move him to something else.


By Dog, if I train you to be a fighter pilot, you gosh darn WILL be a fighter pilot!


Or die trying!

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 16
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 12/1/2021 3:34:40 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral DadMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert
You might start a pilot out training to be a fighter pilot and decide after a while that he just isn't cut out for that and move him to something else.


By Dog, if I train you to be a fighter pilot, you gosh darn WILL be a fighter pilot!


Or die trying!

Anyone can be a fighter pilot ... once!





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to RangerJoe)
Post #: 17
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 12/1/2021 2:56:19 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

It might make sense to split search and ASW in a carrier squadron but otherwise not. Search is ASW, too, just less intense but to twice the range (potentially). That's why search pilots also benefit from ASW training.


Actually, my search pilots when put on 10% ASW, 50% Naval Search train also ASW pretty fast.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 18
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 12/1/2021 8:03:59 PM   
Treetop64


Posts: 926
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: 519 Redwood City - BASE (Hex 218, 70)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Quick question, when you are in the air group screen and you set mission to training and it shows 'Patrol Level' and below 'Train <NUM>' with the widget to inc and dec. Is the number there the % that will train and the remaining % will fly patrol? Some have a 'Rest' displayed instead of 'Patrol'?

Do I have this right and what do people usually set the % to?

thanks


Some advice:

Instead of splitting active "frontline" air units between missions and training, thus diluting their effectiveness; set aside entire squadrons or air groups, transfer them to the rear and dedicate them for 100% training in a specific skill only (example. for fighter pilots, Air training first, then Low Ground Attack - ground attack at 1000 feet - set 100 feet if you want training for strafing only) . Once those pilots are at least in the 60s for a specific skill or skills (I recommend waiting until the "slowest" pilot in the squadron is at 60 in a skill before moving the squadron to the reserve or training them in another skill), then transfer them all into the Reserve pool. After that, just click in recruits from the Replacement pool and repeat.


_____________________________



(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 19
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 12/2/2021 2:18:27 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Remember that your float plane squadrons can do the bulk of the training for the IJN.

_____________________________



(in reply to Treetop64)
Post #: 20
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 12/2/2021 6:39:42 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline 		Is it necessary to do percent allocation for resting? If I set to 50% search don't the other 50% automatically rest? I get very low fatigue from doing this and don't see a need for the extra micro clicking?

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 12/2/2021 6:40:37 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 21
RE: Understanding Air Group Training Missions - 12/2/2021 7:13:49 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: abulbulian

Thank you all for the prompt responses! I'll say one thing, WitP is an incredible game with such depth, but the community is just as incredible.

Would I be dreaming to think of a WitP2? Gary can combine the land engine of WitE2 with the best of WitP, plus a few other odds and ends improvements to UI and game play


This would definitely be the ultimate wargame and yes you would be dreaming lol. The land engine of WITE2 with the sea and air engine of WITPAE with the planeside and shipside combat animations. Wow can you imagine a world war game like that. We can only dream...

< Message edited by Tanaka -- 12/2/2021 7:16:38 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 22
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Understanding Air Group Training Missions Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.092