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The Soviet Union has no playability now

 
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The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/2/2021 8:45:40 PM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline 		At present, the Soviet Union has no playability. No matter how you fight, even if you are not surrounded on a large scale, Germany can cause 3 million casualties to you in September 41.

Even in the winter of 41, the German artillery can still magically Disrupted more than 50%-90% of your troops in any weather and terrain except urban

Even if you destroy 2 million Axis forces in the winter of 41, Once 42 summer comes, even if your troops are full and equipped, the CV is twice that of the offensive troops, You will still be magically Disrupted by German artillery by more than 50%-90% and lose the battle, except in urban terrain (Rough, swamp, heavy woods still will be Disrupted), even if you are in Level 3 fortress (It was just that there were not so many Disrupted, but the artillery efficiency was still higher than Soviet Union )

The Soviet artillery, no matter how many, could only suppress the German army by less than 20%

I won't play Soviet Union until adjust artillery

I like this game, but now I've decided to play only the German army. At present, the Soviet game experience is that Germany carries out delibrate attack on you. No matter whether your troops are fully equipped or not, no matter you are a level 2-3 fortress, unless you defend in urban terrain, you will lose, Yes, it often happens that the CV of the Soviet Union decreases by 50%-90%

some "magically" Disrupted and CV decreases, Just Turn 47






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< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/3/2021 6:26:15 AM >
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RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/2/2021 8:52:39 PM   
Sir.Arnold

 

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Joined: 8/14/2021
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< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/2/2021 9:02:37 PM >

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Post #: 2
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/2/2021 9:14:47 PM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline 		The rest is here, change txt to zip

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(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 3
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/2/2021 9:21:39 PM   
Dreamslayer

 

Posts: 452
Joined: 10/31/2015
From: St.Petersburg
Status: offline 		Can the ground element being disrupted twice per battle?
On the 2nd screenshot Soviet side have 3870 elements total and during the battle was disrupted 3891.

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 4
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/2/2021 9:50:01 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I am playing HvH and my Soviet opponent has some bastions I can hardly dislodge or need to invest them with massive forces as Germans.

But in '42 Germany should be able to gain ground and Soviet forces are not exactly great, or supposed to be great, in May '42.

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 5
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/2/2021 9:51:12 PM   
jubjub

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 5/2/2021
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quote:

Can the ground element being disrupted twice per battle?


Yes.

(in reply to Dreamslayer)
Post #: 6
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 12:00:06 AM   
ShaggyHiK

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 10/10/2021
Status: offline 		The German tank attack on the move is too strong, technically it implies a quick attack without using the overwhelming force of artillery and some kind of assault actions, but in the game the tank division uses all its forces in battle at full capabilities, while the defender has even large forces directly in battle sees well if 1/5 of the forces involved. What is striking is the inadequate deferentiation of strike capabilities, not only does the Soviet artillery not shoot, moreover, it is not even in battle.
This gives rise to situations when Soviet troops have, for example, 10k people 200 guns, against 15 thousand people 150 guns and 150 tanks, and in fact, only 2 thousand people and a dozen mortars are involved in the battle of the defender, excluding any heavy weapons. At the same time, the attacker uses in battle almost the full range of forces and means that he has at his disposal, including the heavy one.
After the defender's forces participating in the battle lose the battle, the calculation of the retreat begins. When a Soviet division loses 99.9% of all the forces that it basically has, even if they did not technically participate in the battle.

(in reply to jubjub)
Post #: 7
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 12:08:12 AM   
ShaggyHiK

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 10/10/2021
Status: offline 		To combat such attacks, anti-tank brigades need to be withdrawn from the map to headquarters, creating many anti-tank regiments. Strengthening the tank-dangerous directions with anti-tank guns and commanders with high initiative.
Also covering such armies with Il-2 aircraft.

It will be even better if the Soviet tank and motorized divisions are brought together into one army, using it as a tank, under a tank commander, inflicting counter-strikes into the Wehrmacht's tank divisions, knocking out German tank divisions, reducing their actual potential in battle.
And in defense they are actively using on the second and third lines in the reserve status.

< Message edited by ShaggyHiK -- 12/3/2021 12:16:40 AM >

(in reply to ShaggyHiK)
Post #: 8
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 1:21:27 AM   
DeletedUser44

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold

even if you are not surrounded on a large scale, Germany can cause 3 million casualties to you in September 41.


Is this the total losses from June through Sept 1941? Or just for the 1 month of Sept 1941? I didn't see anything about your total losses.

A commonly referenced data source for losses of roughly the same period is 2.8 million.

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union

(but it has been challenged as under-counting Soviet losses, which some claim were actually higher)

----

Having a hard time understanding the losses and rather 3.1 million is excessive or not? If it is just for the one month of Sept 1941, then YES, it is excessive.

But if it is cumulative (June thru Sept), I don't think that would be completely unreasonable.

----
Battles (May 1942)

One battle image is of the hex (198,151) - which is just 3 hexes East of Minsk? MINSK?

Which means you pushed the Germans back to nearly Minsk during Winter of 41-42? And you are complaining?

(206, 160) - 4 Hexes West of Gomel?
(206, 161)

(215, 194) - 5 Hexes West of Odessa?

------

Looks you thoroughly thrashed Germany in your winter offensive. You effectively have the game won.

No play-ability? Seriously?


(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 9
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 2:09:58 AM   
DesertedFox


Posts: 314
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sauron_II

------

Looks you thoroughly thrashed Germany in your winter offensive. You effectively have the game won.

No play-ability? Seriously?





I am guessing the majority of this game was played pre the latest beta patch.

What I am not guessing at is any game started under the new beta patch is a waste of time for the Russians.

(in reply to DeletedUser44)
Post #: 10
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 2:55:09 AM   
DeletedUser44

 

Posts: 397
Joined: 5/27/2021
Status: offline 		Maybe that is what is going on.

Maybe he is trying to say Soviets have no playability based on a couple of turns at the onset of the German 1942 offensive? That is quite a stretch.

Whatever was done to artillery, I can almost guarantee, it is going to cut both ways.... just like the AFVs do.

The information provided is really sketchy. Even combat reports show none of the weapon details on what is really causing the disruptions.


(in reply to DesertedFox)
Post #: 11
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 6:21:04 AM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		It's hard to give a specific response to this game or scenario without having a much fuller view BUT my 2P on macro game motions:

If we assume that the historical result of WW2 is 'the norm' then on average 1941 and 1942 should see the Soviets 'struggling', inefficient, poorly led (with some notable exceptions), huge NM and experience disparities meaning they'll lose most battles, high losses in most battles (same through the war to be fair), able to counter-attack with success at times and just trying to survive in as best a shape as possible.

If you can get to 1943 then the Soviets should win on average once the re-organised formations can be utilised en masse, NM and experience level disparity begins to narrow, the grinding of the Axis begins to take effect etc etc.

This, at the macro level, is how I see the average game to be. They'll always be exceptions based on player skill level differences. There'll always be things at the micro level that may need to be tweaked/ammended but I (personally) think if most games follow the above then that's the historical norm. Naturally VP levels are set to allow some game prospect of the Axis winning which is fair enough as it's a simulation of the war. My 2P

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(in reply to DeletedUser44)
Post #: 12
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 6:29:15 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I am playing HvH and my Soviet opponent has some bastions I can hardly dislodge or need to invest them with massive forces as Germans.

But in '42 Germany should be able to gain ground and Soviet forces are not exactly great, or supposed to be great, in May '42.


This can not explain why Germany can magically Disrupted 50%-90% of the Soviet army in the game. In reality, the reason why the Soviet army lost again and again in 41-42 years is related to the command mistakes at the level of Stalin and the front army, and the lack of equipment and personnel, which I avoided

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 13
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 6:32:08 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sauron_II


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold

even if you are not surrounded on a large scale, Germany can cause 3 million casualties to you in September 41.


Is this the total losses from June through Sept 1941? Or just for the 1 month of Sept 1941? I didn't see anything about your total losses.

A commonly referenced data source for losses of roughly the same period is 2.8 million.

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union

(but it has been challenged as under-counting Soviet losses, which some claim were actually higher)

----

Having a hard time understanding the losses and rather 3.1 million is excessive or not? If it is just for the one month of Sept 1941, then YES, it is excessive.

But if it is cumulative (June thru Sept), I don't think that would be completely unreasonable.

----
Battles (May 1942)

One battle image is of the hex (198,151) - which is just 3 hexes East of Minsk? MINSK?

Which means you pushed the Germans back to nearly Minsk during Winter of 41-42? And you are complaining?

(206, 160) - 4 Hexes West of Gomel?
(206, 161)

(215, 194) - 5 Hexes West of Odessa?

------

Looks you thoroughly thrashed Germany in your winter offensive. You effectively have the game won.

No play-ability? Seriously?




Because the Germans mistakenly drove their troops into the heavy woods and swamps in the autumn of 41, they were cut off by our cavalry and mechanized troops.

Is this the total losses from June through Sep 1941

However, I was not surrounded by 600000 troops like Kiev in history. In fact, I did not encircle and annihilate more than 50000 troops except the first Western front. The German army directly attacked you and caused 3 million losses

This is absurd

< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/3/2021 6:43:44 AM >

(in reply to DeletedUser44)
Post #: 14
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 6:38:53 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I am playing HvH and my Soviet opponent has some bastions I can hardly dislodge or need to invest them with massive forces as Germans.

But in '42 Germany should be able to gain ground and Soviet forces are not exactly great, or supposed to be great, in May '42.


My troops are 100% toe, and have good generals and terrain, artillery, or level 3 fortress. It is not a lack of equipment and personnel in reality

Why do you always think that in history, the Soviet army will collapse in 41-42 years because the German army is too strong, not because the Soviet Army lacks equipment and personnel, and serious strategic command mistakes

I mean, the reasons for these problems are largely related to Stalin and senior generals, and Soviet players can be avoided to a large extent

< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/3/2021 6:46:24 AM >

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 15
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 6:50:57 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaggyHiK

The German tank attack on the move is too strong, technically it implies a quick attack without using the overwhelming force of artillery and some kind of assault actions, but in the game the tank division uses all its forces in battle at full capabilities, while the defender has even large forces directly in battle sees well if 1/5 of the forces involved. What is striking is the inadequate deferentiation of strike capabilities, not only does the Soviet artillery not shoot, moreover, it is not even in battle.
This gives rise to situations when Soviet troops have, for example, 10k people 200 guns, against 15 thousand people 150 guns and 150 tanks, and in fact, only 2 thousand people and a dozen mortars are involved in the battle of the defender, excluding any heavy weapons. At the same time, the attacker uses in battle almost the full range of forces and means that he has at his disposal, including the heavy one.
After the defender's forces participating in the battle lose the battle, the calculation of the retreat begins. When a Soviet division loses 99.9% of all the forces that it basically has, even if they did not technically participate in the battle.


This is the case. It has happened many times in the current version. I've had enough

(in reply to ShaggyHiK)
Post #: 16
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 6:59:49 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedysteve

It's hard to give a specific response to this game or scenario without having a much fuller view BUT my 2P on macro game motions:

If we assume that the historical result of WW2 is 'the norm' then on average 1941 and 1942 should see the Soviets 'struggling', inefficient, poorly led (with some notable exceptions), huge NM and experience disparities meaning they'll lose most battles, high losses in most battles (same through the war to be fair), able to counter-attack with success at times and just trying to survive in as best a shape as possible.

If you can get to 1943 then the Soviets should win on average once the re-organised formations can be utilised en masse, NM and experience level disparity begins to narrow, the grinding of the Axis begins to take effect etc etc.

This, at the macro level, is how I see the average game to be. They'll always be exceptions based on player skill level differences. There'll always be things at the micro level that may need to be tweaked/ammended but I (personally) think if most games follow the above then that's the historical norm. Naturally VP levels are set to allow some game prospect of the Axis winning which is fair enough as it's a simulation of the war. My 2P


My troops are 100% toe, and have good generals and terrain, artillery, or level 3 fortress. It is not a lack of equipment and personnel in reality

Why do you guys always think that in history, the Soviet army will collapse in 41-42 years because the German army is too strong, not because the Soviet Army lacks equipment and personnel, and serious strategic command mistakes

In reality, the vast majority of Soviet divisions in 41-42 had only about 50% toe, At the same time, Stalin and senior generals misjudged the situation, resulting in improper strategic command, That's why the Soviet Army collapsed in 41-42, Soviet players can be avoided to a large extent

German army is not God of the battlefield

In reality, 43 Kursk, When the Germans encountered the Soviets with sufficient equipment, sufficient personnel, level 3 fortresses and good generals, they failed, and they failed completely

(in reply to Speedysteve)
Post #: 17
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 7:19:08 AM   
DesertedFox


Posts: 314
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sauron_II



Whatever was done to artillery, I can almost guarantee, it is going to cut both ways.... just like the AFVs do.




It's doesn't matter if it cuts both ways when come Nov 41 the Germans occupy Leningrad, Moscow, Voronezh and are way east of Rostov.

Unless there is some kind of chance that the Russians can discover the atom bomb it is game over because they have basically lost the game from logistics alone if they lose just Moscow (NSS), let alone all the others thrown in for good measure.

(in reply to DeletedUser44)
Post #: 18
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 7:29:24 AM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		The Soviets seems okay in my game in 42. Started with the 'arty' patch. Just Soviets had to fight and defend ground and tradeoff manpower for space. They cannot anymore just run run run like before and then stop Germans at dead point. But I assume it is perspective. And no I have not managed to gain Moscow. Nor Leningrad. Voronez yes but lost it in winter 41. Rostov yes and kept through. Good grace I and I assume my opponent are having good fun.

(in reply to DesertedFox)
Post #: 19
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 7:38:28 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

The Soviets seems okay in my game in 42. Started with the 'arty' patch. Just Soviets had to fight and defend ground and tradeoff manpower for space. They cannot anymore just run run run like before and then stop Germans at dead point. But I assume it is perspective. And no I have not managed to gain Moscow. Nor Leningrad. Voronez yes but lost it in winter 41. Rostov yes and kept through. Good grace I and I assume my opponent are having good fun.


So I'm going to play only the German army now. It's not fair at all

And I don’t like the production team "teach" people how to play, especially this kind of wargame

< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/3/2021 7:41:40 AM >

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 20
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 1:00:37 PM   
Gunnulf


Posts: 686
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline 		The Soviets are definately difficult in 41/42, bordering on masochistic to play for sure, but certainly far from unplayable. There are AARs out there of the Axis being held up but its not easy for sure. Attached is not an AAR but the latest turn of my soviet game, played on the latest patch against a reasonable player. He took big chunks out of my armies at every turn with 189 divisions destroyed, each line I tried to hold seemed to end in another army pocketed. Yet here we are at the start of Dec41 with the resistance having paid off he was held short in front of Orel, Rzhev Kursk, Stalino and Sevastapol and the first proper blizzard turn has been quite painful for the Axis.
Its tough for the Soviets, but way off being unplayable. The example you post in the screenshot is of 2 Panzer, 2 motorised and 1 Fallshirjager beating up an unfortified 3 divisions abeit in rough terrain, and an infantry corps verus and infantry corps in swamp. Both losses but not disasterous, and if I had not seen the result in advance I think I would have roughly guessed the outcome. But as has been pointed out, both these fights are taking place in May42 close to Minsk so it doesn't seem like your campaign has really been a disaster overall either? Frustrating at time I'm sure, but you have held the Axis further west than historical by a long way so unplayable seems a stretch unless.




Attachment (1)

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(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 21
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 1:44:19 PM   
DesertedFox


Posts: 314
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunnulf

The Soviets are definately difficult in 41/42, bordering on masochistic to play for sure, but certainly far from unplayable. There are AARs out there of the Axis being held up but its not easy for sure.



Please provide the links to these AARs that deal only with games playing GC 41 that started with the latest Beta patch?

There is only 1 to my knowledge jubjub vs Beethoven and as I have seen the state of that game past what's currently up in the AAR forums, and it doesn't support your "Axis being held up".

Still, I am interested to look at the others you have obviously seen which I have missed.

(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 22
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 1:49:56 PM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline 		Sadly, even is Stalingrad to Berlin scenario, you will still be "magically" by the German army Disrupted 50%-90% troops

and you can download my attachment. There are more pictures in it. It shows that even level 3 fortress will still have "magically" disrupted and CV decreases

This either BUG or serious WAD problems

< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/3/2021 1:54:03 PM >

(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 23
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 2:20:35 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold
At present, the Soviet Union has no playability. No matter how you fight, even if you are not surrounded on a large scale, Germany can cause 3 million casualties to you in September 41.

Even in the winter of 41, the German artillery can still magically Disrupted more than 50%-90% of your troops in any weather and terrain except urban

Even if you destroy 2 million Axis forces in the winter of 41 [...]


Well, you're basically describing Barbarossa. So in fact the game seems to more or less replicate the real thing. The Game 1 - 0 You.

"Destroy 2 million Axis forces in the winter of 41"? Looks like that was impossible in the real thing and -hopefully- in the game.

The Game 2 - 0 You.

Best regards

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 24
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 2:37:25 PM   
jubjub

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 5/2/2021
Status: offline 		Honestly, it sounds like you got used to auto-win by pressing the AHQ button, and have given up now that it's not so easy.

Before these changes, the Soviets were hopelessly OP. Out of 6+ of my pvp games, only two made it past the 1941 HWM. Out of these, 1 will end on the 1942 HWM, and the other was vs HYLA, whose games shouldn't really reflect balance. On the other hand, Germany was an absolute grindfest after turn 3. I felt like a masochist for playing them.

My game that started after the changes is difficult, but it's not impossible. Maybe instead of crying about it, get better and adapt to the new game before claiming the sky is falling.


< Message edited by jubjub -- 12/3/2021 2:38:39 PM >

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 25
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 2:38:56 PM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold
At present, the Soviet Union has no playability. No matter how you fight, even if you are not surrounded on a large scale, Germany can cause 3 million casualties to you in September 41.

Even in the winter of 41, the German artillery can still magically Disrupted more than 50%-90% of your troops in any weather and terrain except urban

Even if you destroy 2 million Axis forces in the winter of 41 [...]


Well, you're basically describing Barbarossa. So in fact the game seems to more or less replicate the real thing. The Game 1 - 0 You.

"Destroy 2 million Axis forces in the winter of 41"? Looks like that was impossible in the real thing and -hopefully- in the game.

The Game 2 - 0 You.

Best regards


I’m sorry that you’re wrong, because even in the Stalingrad to Berlin scenario, everything I’ve said existed. It was the winter of 1943.

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 26
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 2:49:13 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		And in Winter '43 the Russians when going on the offensive, smartly smashed Axis minors and not the Germans.
One may wonder why, even in Winter '43. Ah yes because the other offensive, against German forces, did not exactly went so well for the Russians. (Besides it is simply more efficient to hit the weather spots).

I agree with JubJub on that notion notheless.

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 27
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 3:08:08 PM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

And in Winter '43 the Russians when going on the offensive, smartly smashed Axis minors and not the Germans.
One may wonder why, even in Winter '43. Ah yes because the other offensive, against German forces, did not exactly went so well for the Russians. (Besides it is simply more efficient to hit the weather spots).

I agree with JubJub on that notion notheless.


German army not God of the war

This is obviously the Soviet bias

I know you want to say Lezhev

However, the battle near Lezhev is more like WW1. In the game, it is equivalent to the Soviet Union attacking the German army at Level 3 fortress. I didn't say that the Soviet army can still break through the German defense line in this case. In fact, I rarely do so in the game

What I'm saying is that the Soviet Union will still be defeated in defense, not attack, even in 1943

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 28
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 3:09:19 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold
I’m sorry that you’re wrong, because even in the Stalingrad to Berlin scenario, everything I’ve said existed. It was the winter of 1943.


There should be a clear divide. Before the "turning point" or november '42 (aka smash the weak allies on the flanks and annihilate a whole German army) and after that moment. Before = [Soviet] catastrophes, catastrophes and more catastrophes. After = start stuffing the Germans. As long as this works I can't see any problem.

I was not wrong when I said you were describing er, Barbarossa.

Best regards

_____________________________

a nu cheeki breeki iv damke

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 29
RE: The Soviet Union has no playability now - 12/3/2021 3:14:08 PM   
jubjub

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 5/2/2021
Status: offline
quote:

What I'm saying is that the Soviet Union will still be defeated in defense, not attack, even in 1943


This is just not true. Try putting rifle corps in the way of the German offense and see how the Germans fare.

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 30
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