Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Artillery comparison test of 1.02.08 and 1.02.06

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Artillery comparison test of 1.02.08 and 1.02.06 Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Artillery comparison test of 1.02.08 and 1.02.06 - 12/4/2021 3:44:19 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline 		I found a time to test the two versions of the artillery

The following results only take the value of 10 attacks with the same conditions

No tanks NO air NO support units

Only track data for 105mm lefh18 Howitzer

1.02.06 result
12.68 FPE 3.43 HPE
12.68 FPE 2.90 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.56 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.12 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.0 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.21 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.46 HPE
12.68 FPE 2.93 HPE
12.68 FPE 2.81 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.4 HPE
average 3.182

1.02.08 result
12.68 FPE 3.12 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.12 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.0 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.9 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.37 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.21 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.21 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.21 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.59 HPE
12.68 FPE 2.96 HPE
average 3.269

This is the result

< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/4/2021 3:24:46 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/4/2021 3:46:56 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline 		The production team should check to see if it has been modified correctly

< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/4/2021 3:24:59 PM >

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 2
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/4/2021 3:50:44 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline 		In addition, I suggest that the production team check the Disrupted mechanism

The picture shows that the total number of Soviet personnel is only 12646, and Ground Elements is only 1341, but they were Disrupted 15642 and 1797. I think you'd better check to see what caused it.

All in all, the current Soviet army is finally playable





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 3
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/4/2021 3:54:07 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline 		Disrupted details




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 4
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/4/2021 3:41:31 PM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline 		Why not just return the artillery mechanism back to version 1.01.09

Existing modifications may cause wad problems

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 5
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/4/2021 5:28:48 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		The 1.01.09 had some serious issues that we have addressed. It was missing a lot of the longer ranged (direct fire) combat that was intended. We don't want to go back as the changes that have been made were absolutely necessary. That's not to say that we aren't continuing to test and adjust things. This work is not easy, as we have what's happening in individual battles (which always have a lot of variability and play out differently at different times of the war), and the overall balance when you add up all the battles (which can only be tested quickly in AI games). There's really no going back at this point, only moving forward and trying to continue to tweak things to move them in the right direction. We think 1.02.08 did that, but in this case we were very careful to localize the changes. We're working on the next set of adjustments at the micro level now, but it will take us some time to get them in shape to release to testers, and then longer to see if they are an improvement. We think the game is playable as it is, but we will continue to try to improve things as we can.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 6
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/4/2021 7:52:35 PM   
DesertedFox


Posts: 314
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold

Why not just return the artillery mechanism back to version 1.01.09

Existing modifications may cause wad problems


If you had followed what was said in version 1.02.01 (I think it was) the combat routine had a flaw that was quite

detrimental to the Germans. Thus the change was absolutely necessary however the arty got too much of a boost and that has

now been scaled back with ongoing testing.

Under the patch your talking about it made the Germans as unplayable as the Russians were in 1.02.01.

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 7
RE: Artillery comparison test of 1.02.08 and 1.02.06 - 12/5/2021 12:59:17 AM   
PeteJC

 

Posts: 105
Joined: 4/4/2021
Status: offline 		Soooooo which version is "correct" and which is flawed? Am I reading/understanding that .08 has corrected too much of a buff to German artillery in .06?

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 8
RE: Artillery comparison test of 1.02.08 and 1.02.06 - 12/5/2021 1:59:32 AM   
DesertedFox


Posts: 314
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeteJC

Soooooo which version is "correct" and which is flawed? Am I reading/understanding that .08 has corrected too much of a buff to German artillery in .06?


The answer is yes according to myself, some other players, and the dev team.

However to others, the "arty is God of war" with infinite abilities and or the German fan club, no, .06 was correct.

(in reply to PeteJC)
Post #: 9
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/5/2021 3:32:54 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The 1.01.09 had some serious issues that we have addressed. It was missing a lot of the longer ranged (direct fire) combat that was intended. We don't want to go back as the changes that have been made were absolutely necessary. That's not to say that we aren't continuing to test and adjust things. This work is not easy, as we have what's happening in individual battles (which always have a lot of variability and play out differently at different times of the war), and the overall balance when you add up all the battles (which can only be tested quickly in AI games). There's really no going back at this point, only moving forward and trying to continue to tweak things to move them in the right direction. We think 1.02.08 did that, but in this case we were very careful to localize the changes. We're working on the next set of adjustments at the micro level now, but it will take us some time to get them in shape to release to testers, and then longer to see if they are an improvement. We think the game is playable as it is, but we will continue to try to improve things as we can.


Then I have a suggestion, Adjust the artillery he hit rate for each terrain and cancel the inexplicable ammunition restrictions of the Soviet artillery, so that the Soviet Union can also enjoy the new artillery mechanism, because in the current version, if you play the script for 41 years, you basically can't play 44. Either Germany won in 41-42 years or Germany conceded defeat

< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/5/2021 5:58:33 AM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 10
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/5/2021 3:44:14 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The 1.01.09 had some serious issues that we have addressed. It was missing a lot of the longer ranged (direct fire) combat that was intended. We don't want to go back as the changes that have been made were absolutely necessary. That's not to say that we aren't continuing to test and adjust things. This work is not easy, as we have what's happening in individual battles (which always have a lot of variability and play out differently at different times of the war), and the overall balance when you add up all the battles (which can only be tested quickly in AI games). There's really no going back at this point, only moving forward and trying to continue to tweak things to move them in the right direction. We think 1.02.08 did that, but in this case we were very careful to localize the changes. We're working on the next set of adjustments at the micro level now, but it will take us some time to get them in shape to release to testers, and then longer to see if they are an improvement. We think the game is playable as it is, but we will continue to try to improve things as we can.


If the artillery mechanism changes are really necessary, then I suggest cancel the inexplicable ammunition restrictions of the Soviet artillery. On the one hand, the artillery mechanism changes are large enough to affect the entire battlefield situation, and it is fairer to cancel the restrictions. On the other hand, if your army has more than 100% ammunition, the artillery still can’t fire for restrictions. Then in 44 years, it's magically free of this restriction. This method is really too rough. It doesn't matter much in the previous version, but the existing version really needs to be changed

The German army still has a considerable artillery advantage because of its high morale and experience. But at least not because of the Soviet artillery ammunition limit more than 10 times worse

The existing gap between morale and experience is enough to open the gap between the quality of artillery on both sides. There is really no need to make another absurd ammunition restriction, especially when the existing version of artillery mechanism is greatly modified

As the morale and experience of the Soviet Army gradually increased, the German army gradually decreased, and the artillery gap between the two sides gradually decreased, which is better than the ammunition limit and more in line with the historical situation

Adjust the artillery he hit rate for each terrain, At present, there is no great difference in artillery he hit rate in various terrain. You are disturbed by artillery in the plain, and you are disturbed by artillery in the swamp as well as in the forest

< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/5/2021 6:00:13 AM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 11
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/5/2021 5:35:58 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline 		GC41 Trun 11 human vs human

There are only 2 million Soviet troops left on the map. In the next Trun, the Soviet troops will be reduced to less than 1.9 million. This guy is definitely not going to survive 1942


This is the power of the German army. If it is not modified, the Soviet Union will lose 100% in the face of German experts

There are many WITE masters around me. I am 100% aware of the current problem




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/5/2021 5:39:39 AM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 12
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/5/2021 9:42:32 AM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		From a manual:
"Units reporting (directly or indirectly) to a Front set to Assault Status (21.11.2) will have a notional requirement for 90% of their ammunition."
I did not have any experience as a Soviet side, so I am not sure how many units you can attach to a front, but even now Soviets are in supply almost all of the time and they can continuously attack on any side of the front, which was not that was happening historically.

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 13
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/5/2021 10:02:02 AM   
ShaggyHiK

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 10/10/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

From a manual:
"Units reporting (directly or indirectly) to a Front set to Assault Status (21.11.2) will have a notional requirement for 90% of their ammunition."
I did not have any experience as a Soviet side, so I am not sure how many units you can attach to a front, but even now Soviets are in supply almost all of the time and they can continuously attack on any side of the front, which was not that was happening historically.

Are you sure? Can you answer the question where did the Soviet offensive near Moscow begin? I will not wait for your answer and I will answer myself: Near Rostov.
With a difference of a couple of weeks, the Soviet army launched an offensive almost along the entire Soviet-German front. And this is 41 years old.
Historically, after 41, it was the German army that could not advance on a large scale. This is clearly seen in global examples. In 1941 the width of the offensive front was 3000 km, in 42 it was 600 km, and in 43 it was only 150 km.
While the Soviet army in the winter of 41, after heavy losses, was able to advance no less widely than the German. At 42 there was parity, and at 43 after the Kursk Bulge, and even more so in 44, they were actually able to advance along the entire front.

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 14
RE: Artillery comparison test of 1.02.08 and 1.02.06 - 12/5/2021 12:21:55 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold

The following results only take the value of 10 attacks with the same conditions

No tanks NO air NO support units

Only track data for 105mm lefh18 Howitzer

1.02.06 result
12.68 FPE 3.43 HPE
12.68 FPE 2.90 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.56 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.12 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.0 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.21 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.46 HPE
12.68 FPE 2.93 HPE
12.68 FPE 2.81 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.4 HPE
average 3.182

1.02.08 result
12.68 FPE 3.12 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.12 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.0 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.9 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.37 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.21 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.21 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.21 HPE
12.68 FPE 3.59 HPE
12.68 FPE 2.96 HPE
average 3.269

This is the result


There are definite differences between artillery in 1.02.08 and 1.02.06. I'm surprised they're not showing up in your testing as they are showing up in ours. Could you describe exactly how to recreate your tests?

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 15
RE: Artillery comparison test of 1.02.08 and 1.02.06 - 12/5/2021 12:37:13 PM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline 		Operation Typhoon 41

Turn 2 The German 256th infantry division attacked the Soviet 178th infantry division (Heavy woods at 207,162 Level 1 fort)

both sides No tanks NO air NO support units

Only track data for 105mm lefh18 Howitzer

< Message edited by Sir.Arnold -- 12/5/2021 12:41:19 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 16
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/5/2021 6:03:17 PM   
Yogol

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 11/30/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold

GC41 Trun 11 human vs human

There are only 2 million Soviet troops left on the map. In the next Trun, the Soviet troops will be reduced to less than 1.9 million. This guy is definitely not going to survive 1942


This is the power of the German army. If it is not modified, the Soviet Union will lose 100% in the face of German experts

There are many WITE masters around me. I am 100% aware of the current problem





With which version of the game did you get those numbers and on what difficulty level (I am assuming it's versus AI)?

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 17
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/6/2021 2:56:14 AM   
Sir.Arnold

 

Posts: 99
Joined: 8/14/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogol


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir.Arnold

GC41 Trun 11 human vs human

There are only 2 million Soviet troops left on the map. In the next Trun, the Soviet troops will be reduced to less than 1.9 million. This guy is definitely not going to survive 1942


This is the power of the German army. If it is not modified, the Soviet Union will lose 100% in the face of German experts

There are many WITE masters around me. I am 100% aware of the current problem





With which version of the game did you get those numbers and on what difficulty level (I am assuming it's versus AI)?


1.02.06

versus human

NO AI

(in reply to Yogol)
Post #: 18
RE: New 1.02.08 combat situation - 12/6/2021 3:36:29 AM   
jubjub

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 5/2/2021
Status: offline 		You obviously outclass your opponent or he made serious errors in '41. Show the on map manpower chart for some context to this campaign.

< Message edited by jubjub -- 12/6/2021 3:37:52 AM >

(in reply to Sir.Arnold)
Post #: 19
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Artillery comparison test of 1.02.08 and 1.02.06 Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.656