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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG

 
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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/20/2021 3:07:44 PM   
AlbertN

 

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Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		@MSAG: Always precious the input from your end - so that audience can have both points of view, and understanding why a player (in the right or the wrong) does something or takes that decision!

I can safely say to advance to Stalingrad was pondered after the fall of Voronhez, but the 11th Army was consumed further by your attack; and even when I had the rail arrive from the south too the logistic net there proved far too poor for a continuous assault.
I feel that for Stalingrad a true 'blitzkrieg' is required, with preparations and stocked depots just -there- at the frontline (Almost impossible to achieve unless one starves the troops, and then the troops cannot lead an offensive anyhow) and the units must be enfattened with supplies and fuel and ammo; AND the ordeal has to be wrapped up in like 3 turns. Pratically mission impossible unless a Soviet player is sleeping on their own feet.

If the surprise is foiled, with Saratov or so as NSS, the Soviets simply will have 0 problems at pouring reinforcements, troops and replacements whilst the Germans will be screwed. My present troops in the region have already a deplorable supply situation.

T68

Caucasus is the latest sector of action.

Serious Soviet mobile assets arrived in the combat zone and a counterattack started.

A Romanian regiment ceased to exist after being attacked by a Soviet rifle division without extras!

The Romanian held flanks risk to collapse I suspect as soon as the Soviets start to push some in general.




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Post #: 181
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/20/2021 3:18:34 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T68 - Leningrad Tango

Back in Supply for the Soviets.

The supposedly immense flak barrier that was located around the City to severely hinder the air supply of the Soviets apparently has holes as huge as the black ones in the space.

Over 300 weapon systems of the Luftwaffe managed to shoot down only 3 of the Flying Fortresses of the Soviets. (and damage some I assume)

As positive news there have been some aerial interceptions, I assume a batch of some hexes over my territory enabled my fighters. But it is never more than 10-15 to intercept out of 200ish that are sitting around here. And their damage to the Li2 is negligible, at least across 1 turn.




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Post #: 182
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/20/2021 3:34:38 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		That is insane amount of flak!
It would wipe out all planes in a case of GS. Can you also post this picture to a topics about flak losses?

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Post #: 183
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/20/2021 5:51:33 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T68 - Leningrad Tango

Finally a step in the right direction! After hard recon on the hex my infanteries managed to cross the riverline and establish a foothold at the other end.

The previous turn I have ground bombed there but after having seen the ridiculous effect of German bombers I elected to use them in ground support instead.

I feel the Soviets resented heavily of the limited supplies, the combat has been quite smooth this turn. But I assume last turn they got many damaged when they repelled my assault, and due to their present condition damaged stuff remains damaged? My own supposition.

And to the east an incautious Guard Corps must have received stand fast orders and got surrounded now. I am quite confident in this sector the Soviets lack the push needed to save their Guard unit.

I do have a wonder now - if I link up with the Finnish front, supply / logistics arrive through there too?




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Post #: 184
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/20/2021 6:00:32 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T68 - Moscow Sector

I do not show this since a while - the line has remained immobile and untouched for turns pratically.
Only in this turn I tried what was decided (in my mind) some turns ago. To straighten the line by seizing that heavy woods hex.

Dare say for what they got stormed by, the 2 Soviet Rifle Divisions sold their skin dearly! But now there I've a one hex border instead of 3.

There are no operations planned for the sector at all, two panzerkorps are there / on their way to refit in the immediate rearlines and act as reserve force, now that the Cauldron of War sector has turned quiet.








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Post #: 185
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/21/2021 1:31:58 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T69 - Caucasus Soviet Counteroffensive

This seems to be the latest trend for what concerns the action.

Here as well I expect the German forces to be bested by the Soviets even if I am quite confident right now the Germans have better supply network as we've a large railroad (albeit longer) to Berlin and the port facilities via the Black Sea, while supposedly all the Soviet war effort is fuelled by the single track line along the Caspian and whatever shipping they have in the Caspian.

Yet their nimble cavalries infiltrate, German regiments are shoved easily away and ... as you can see Romanians are useless.

The combat you see was a fully rested, idle since turns, 100 CCP loaded Romanian division. That was shoved away by 2 Rifle Divisions of the Russians. (Which they were rested and CCP loaded too I believe). I vehemently rest in my case the Axis Minors need a buff up in National Morale / Combat Capability.

On the other hand I believe the Soviets are severely favored by the 'teleport out of the Reserves' business, that allows them to rapidly deploy without any Freight cost on their logistic system troops from the reserves on need. (Something I hope the Devs change). The only alternative is that these are the same assets that were about Stalingrad previously - but nothing stops the Russians to migrate in their own reserves units north of Moscow and then return to the map around this sector.


Axis can send without freight cost to the reserves but when you issue troops back on map they can appear in Poland and then ... they eat up freight to be brought to the frontlines.

Ultimately I am retreating from Stalingrad as I do not plan to hold the line there, considering it over exposed. But right now the Caucasus situation seem to scream to 'fall back to Rostov and turtle'. Which to me it would make the game boring.

A dynamic were to repair Maikop with construction units work (right now it is 1% a turn which is silly, it will take 2 years to be fully repaired) AND where extra OIL is a blessing for the German economics and operations would be truly needed to give the game spice here. Current design in that topic is extremely poor from my perspective. It is okay to have 'with what you have you can work' but there should be the 'if you get more you pump more' (Oil = Fuel, Resources = Tanks / Planes / etc).




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< Message edited by AlbertN -- 12/21/2021 1:38:07 PM >

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Post #: 186
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/21/2021 11:36:31 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T69 - Leader Casualties

I thought, why not! This turn Walter Weiss perished.
I admit it is the first time I've heard of this guy, in WITE2 and it is someone I got in the line quickly, during '41.

His glorious career came to an end alas!

Germany has plenty of good leaders, but Walter Weiss was one of the top tiers I believe!




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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/21/2021 11:41:13 PM   
Jango32

 

Posts: 307
Joined: 3/15/2021
Status: offline 		Leader deaths seem a bit random when they just... die for no discernible reason. I've had von Mackensen randomly die on turn 21 or so in a .07 single player game.

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Post #: 188
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 12:01:31 AM   
Rosencrantus

 

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Joined: 1/9/2021
From: Canada
Status: offline 		A Romanian division is basically like a Soviet rifle division. If you leave them unsupported (i.e no reserve activation or German troops) to guard your flanks, they will get routed, especially since in that combat the soviets outnumbered 2:1.

Same thing happened to 6th Army with Romanian 3rd and 4th Army at Stalingrad though at a much larger scale.

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Post #: 189
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 12:52:01 AM   
AlbertN

 

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Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		@Rosencratus: I personally disagree on how brittle and frail Romanians are. Stalingrad situation had a hefty amount of Soviets running over the Romanians, including amount of armoured forces the Romanians were simply not equipped to deal with. But that's just how I think.

T69: Caucasus post moves

Deep trouble there - for this turn I managed to link up but the Axis forces are severely depleted and worn off and will simply get encircled again during the next Soviet turn.

The limited railroad leading here hinders the shipping of adequate reinforcements on my end while the Soviets can pretty much fuel their own offensive via the Reserve if needs to be with fresh troops and retire in the reserves what may be necessary by just falling back to their own lines.

I am not sure if MSAG is playing that way, but the game allows it presently.

I suspect a smackdown to happen within few turnsthere with a loss of a good portion of the 1st Panzerarmee and more.




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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 1:21:19 AM   
AlbertN

 

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Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T69 - Morale Gradual Decline

That is something eluding my own mind, troops simply demoralize over time even if they just idle and risk nothing.

Supply situation is not -stellar- but that's normal in general anywhere on the front, Germans do not get 100% supply.

So over time the divisions, no matter how battle hardened they're - through refit and receiving recruits, or just idling there will suffer morale. Including dropping down the NM it seems...

It kind of mind boggles me, even because I suspect the unit morale has a much deeper impact than ground element expertise on combat. BUT that is a whiff and suspect I've due to how the CV is mirrored, in relation to the unit morale.






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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 1:24:52 AM   
AlbertN

 

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Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T69 - Leningrad

I may have sinned of haste there - the single division that crossed the river the previous turn pressed on the assault, but got stalled on its feet.

2 more divisions crossed the river, the next turn I should expand the bridgehead.

To the West shy attempt of the Soviets to relieve their trapped Guard Corp were made, met by failure due to their own hindered situation ... the German forces here hold their grounds and shove away the weak Soviet forces coming in contact.

This way I am trying to keep some units experienced and morale'd up.




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Post #: 192
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 1:31:06 AM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T69 - Moscow Sector

I am aware I am not going far there, but there were some single divisions left guarding hexes and I elected to ram into them.

It is more a psicological distraction from the Caucasus for the Soviets than else, from my perspective.

Since I am extremely hindered in what I can move across the board.

Luftwaffe Feld Division thoughts:

My reserves got filled with Luftwaffe Feld divisions ... I've to well ponder if to issue them to some Theather to take regular infantry or if to send them to the front in Russia here where they can serve the function of diggers and 'fort-keepers'.

Ultimately a 'Rifle Squad' costs the same no matter where it goes, if it goes into SS Elite Formation, into regular Infantry Division or LW Feld Division.

Thus 'cost wise' the most efficient thing is to cram them in some no or minimal losses TB.

On the other hand they can be regimented...




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Post #: 193
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 9:40:27 AM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T70 - Soviet Counterattack at Moscow

Will quickly post the turn situation I got before to go and have chores / RL stuff. I like to take a panoramic myself to assimilate and think while I may do other things in automation.

Russians hammered hard the spearhead, with a massive loss of panzers and troops for the Reich.

With utmost chances my fault to keep understimating Russian capabilities in late '42 and fit my own units in a hex attackable by 5 sides.




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Post #: 194
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 9:43:15 AM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T70 - Leningrad Tango, Relief Operation?

First time I see the Soviets pushing without the need to relieve something encircled at the eastern perimeter.

Is that the beginning of a Winter relief effort at the hands of the Soviets?

In the while Leningrad is kept supplied via the air, so the units are not fully isolated.
It seems that no matter how much AA I put around, the Li2 losses are ever relatively low for the amount of German flak guns there.




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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 9:47:21 AM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T70 - Caucasus

Logistic situation here is dire - as you can see by the tickers on supply.

Soviets have some green even, so they're better supplied than the Germans. Somehow.
Supposedly the German rail network is better even if more distant from home... that is why I think some of these Soviet units arrived out of their Reserve and are in good supply while others are not (but may have been encircled earlier).

MSAG elected this time to bruteforce most of the Axis units, routing them or retreating them.

Medals to the 2nd regiment of the 16th Panzer Division that held out against 5 repeated assaults of the Soviet forces and held a potential pocket open!




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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 10:01:47 AM   
Stamb

 

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Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		I think it would be a good move by the Soviet player to accept that without a bug with air transport he will be not able to air supply Leningrad and drop less than 500t of freight.

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Post #: 197
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 2:33:33 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		@Stamb: I'd have made a move in that direction if I did not felt I had my own advantage during 'Soviet Winter 41', even if it was at a minor scale. Besides I also kept 'alive' the 7th Panzer Division in Chevropets for I believe 2 extra turns due to the air supply for instance. And it will come handy in the future as well.

T70 Leningrad Progress

On the topic - even if the Soviets do not count as isolated during my turn they still surrender (In fact during their own turn they're isolated and cannot attack well either).
I suspect that in the case of a pocket as large as Leningrad what comes in does not cut it to feed all the present mouths, while for Voronhez (5 divisions iirc) it sufficed. The real problem will be the last hex of Leningrad I suspect.

I sinned of gluttony, or better treacherous recon misinformed me. And after the first success I took a bloodied nose at a second attack. I've lost 60 guns there and I wondered, and relized 40ish of them are AA guns attached to the infantry divisions that are meant to shoot at the Li-2, that obviously took part to the ground attack as well and ended up in the line of fire of the Soviets.

One of my many 'small' mistake that are under the scope and radar in general but all stack up.

And that is the type of micromanagement I may struggle with!

Despite the heavy rain I decided to perform recon also on the eastern side and I believe there is a mounting relief effort there - not something I'd do considering bad weather is looming and the Soviet supply line is strenuous for real there, and stuff from Reserve must appear at some distance from me so it cannot just appear on the rail there...

On the other hand as long as Leningrad holds I've a full army here - and pratically that leaves German strategic reserves to be non existant!




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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 3:04:50 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T70 - Caucasus Progress

The hugging here is severe.

Some Soviet formations got trapped the previous turn and this turn I am caressing the idea to trap some more. The enemy forces, arrived fresh and rested, now show manifest signals of exhaustion already.

I assume that is where the logistic cycle should happen (not sure if it is worth the shot) to cycle in and out of reserve. It's still '42 so Soviets cannot be mighty powerful everywhere and if there is -one- thing Germans have, that's airlift on demand for supply.

Many Russian formations are simply there on the paper pretty much but have abysmal values. The Russians are having a build up to the south too but frankly I do not expect a winter-supply-line through the Caucasian mountains to be even remotely viable for any side.




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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 3:11:19 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T70 - 'For Science', of Flak and Luftwaffe

Since there are topics and threads on that - I may add on it as well.

25 bomber losses are Stukas due to flak, the rest are OPs (Yes the Romanians have only lost bombers out of Ops).

The effect of the airplanes quite negligible if non existant for the battle - with 8 ground elements destroyed, 3 damaged and 55 disrupted.

Light rain should not have grand impact since that is frequent even in the good seasons as August and July. So is for Light Mud.




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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 3:34:34 PM   
Stamb

 

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Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		I like how 88 m3 Lee and 32 M3A1 Stuart are listed as AA. Does the same goes when Axis division is under attack? If i recall correctly - no.

Edit.

Also total armor units, on the top, for the Soviet side are showing 55. Support units do not count?

Edit 2.

Ah Soviets have 0 SU.

88 M3 Lee and 32 M3a1 = 120 tanks.

But battle report shows only 55.

< Message edited by Stamb -- 12/22/2021 3:39:13 PM >

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Post #: 201
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 3:43:16 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T70 - Away from Stalingrad

Shortening the lines here before the Winter hits.

I am not sure how ready the Soviets are due to their perpetuated offensives and counterblows to frustrate my plans but there is a long, long way from the railroads in some of the spots there.

It may be a fatalistic, historically inspired or plainly wrong decision to shorten the line but I believe it will do better to the Germans and to let the Russians come to them.

IF it was another game probably to keep the threat to Stalingrad was better, but WITE starts to give me again the vibes of 'being written as a book no matter what'.

With the gradual (and excessive) looming decline of German quality of troops, logistics that are disfunctional (from my perspective, explained already), it is impossible that a '43 offensive can lead to seize a target as relevant as Stalingrad even if for any reason I was clinging to the Don River Bend and repelled Soviet offensives right there.

I've already a problem of shortage of panzers to replenish my panzer divisions.






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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/22/2021 4:06:16 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I've seen Axis rifle squads and the like firing as AA against Il2. It may be something about dive bombing.

Also remember AA intervention is from 1 hex away too (or it can be flyover).
I do agree though in these cases it should only be real AA guns.

I've sent the turn forward - so it is down to my opponent now. Finalized a very weak encirclement in the Caucasus sector.

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Post #: 203
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/23/2021 11:08:53 AM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T71 - Logistic System WTF?

I really understand that there was a desire to put emphasis on the Logistics.
I do agree they're an important aspect of warfare.

The problem is when the system is ... disfunctional, at least from my perspective.

The priority system does not cut it.
Novorossiysk got 7000+ Freight from ship - which supposedly it is good. But it all got distributed from there, being spread from there up to Moscow ... see all these white lines there, that is where the Freight went.

There is a single, well closer and linked up depot. (alas the Soviets made a pointe and broke the rail there leading to Maikop...): Kropotkin.
That depot received 700 Freight. From Vienna.

Right?

People can write essays on 'truck management' and 'logistics' but as long as the system handling the whole ordeal simply does not work in any logical manner but just a random way.

A Tier3 Depot will send Freight to -any- Tier4. So while supposedly the supply should flow Berlin -> through Rostov -> Caucasus front I've the opposite.

I could probably put a monkey organizing supply, it would do it better than here where Berlin -> Mariupol -> Embark and goes Novorossiysk -> Back on train to Moscow.

How things like these eluded the radar when the game was in design it is beyond me.

PS: Yes Mariupol is intended to be an export depot even if it should not be really the one exporting. The issue there is that Export Depots have a supply priority so it is a way to ensure I somehow get some supply there at least. (Where I've air lift).

Thus, as mud comes, due to the Logistic system being bogus, I assume my trucks will be playing destruction derby of their own accord.

I am tempted to hit the AI DEPOT ASSIST for 1 turn to see if the AI itself, supposedly knowledgeable of its own logic, can do better. But I fear it will destroy an amount of depots with freight, with the subsequent loss of freight.






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< Message edited by AlbertN -- 12/23/2021 11:15:41 AM >

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Post #: 204
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/23/2021 11:39:47 AM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T71 - Soviet Mighty Attack

Here I feel I've peeled it! Just out of the Light Mud. If it was clear I suspect the Soviets simply shove 1 hex a turn of the Germans otherwise.

Given they poured together a huge mass of troops but I also think they were not CCP loaded as they hit the panzers the turn before.

Now here the Soviets have been butchered in terms of losses but their CV has barely budged (from 1081 to 987) while German one dropped sensibly (I think out of the fort destroyed).

Despite the quite terrific losses inflicted the Soviets breezed through that in terms of CV.

The elite German FJ do not seem much elite, when they have such a poor hit ratio too if compared to regular rifle squad of a seasoned infantry division.

I suspect at this stage I am to expect at least 6+ 'loaded' corps attack a turn on one hex. And the German front will just budge if the attacked hex is defended by 1 single division no matter how fortified the location is (barring Urban maybe).

I am not sure why MSAG picked a 2 division hex but I assume it is due to having 3 hexes to attack from. I'd have rather picked a 1 division hex I can attack from 2; than a 2 division hex that I can attack from 3. (Ideally 2:1 > 3:2)

That may consist of a problem as an amount of frontline hexes are manned by just a regiment in some quiet sector, i a regiment is attacked it will simply buckle in savagely, and the general lack of reserve units for Germany (That is though due to me having a whole army still pinned at Leningrad and I assume and overstretched front into the Caucasus).

Reserves would magically appear out of thin air if I was to retreat behind Kerch Strait and the Don River Bend.




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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/23/2021 11:42:06 AM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		I completely agree with you AlbertN. Logistics seems to work only if there is only 1 straight line with 1 2 3 4. Also super depots can do magic of bringing supplies to a front, while without them you will get much less no matter what you do :(.

Was there any PvP game where Stalingrad was taken?
It looks like only North can be supplied normally with a Center being so so and South struggling.
And after first winter there is no much improvement in comparison with a summer '41. 20-25k freight each turn?

< Message edited by Stamb -- 12/23/2021 11:43:57 AM >

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Post #: 206
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/23/2021 12:22:41 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T71 - Tambov / Voronhez sector

Post air recon.

The Soviets have grown confident as the bad weather arrives.

This sector has been calm for months by now. Since the fall of Voronhez.
The German line of forts is still far from being complete - despite people professing abundance of Admin Points I am always borderline with them to the 0!

I believe they're mostly infantry divisions though, for now at least. But I feel they're converting hexes and probing grounds to see if there is a reaction.

Right now I am in the process of 'disbanding' the fortified zones where there are 3 forts, and building them up in other locations with the 1 level fort.






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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/23/2021 12:52:51 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T71 - Logistic Study...

Now here I put the Supply Situation of the 1st Corp - positioned well high in the north around Leningrad.

Due note - the Corps whole was also set on REFIT status and demanded more Freight than the needed (That was dictated by the perception of the Soviet build up for a Leningrad relief effort).

I've the luck to have 2 ports there. Supposedly useless ports since I do not need shipping across Lake Ladoga BUT ... just because these are ports I can set them to Export Ports (Even if they won't export anything) and I know I will get Freight there.

As you can see 4768 there in that Port - and I got 2000+ in the other port. I had to recur to a gimmick of the system, the 'Ports receive freight first' to ensure they get the needed freight on the front.

The 2000+ port (not in screenshot) is a Tier2 Export Port! It has received way more than Tier4 depots around the map that are mere non port Depots.

The 1st Corp is part of an Assault Army and has a Level 3 Supply Priority.
Syasstroy and Novaya Ladoga are the 2 ports in question that received the amount of supplies.
In the bottom corner of the screenshot you can see the small tidbit of relevant map. 2 units are stacked together of the 1st Corp.

2 Infantry Divisions (the two at the leftmost of the Supply logs) lost no trucks as they've not used trucks at all I believe, due to the range being 3 or less to the depots.

On the other hand the ... 24th Panzer division felt the need to gain that extra 132 Freight at some insane distance (8 hexes but I bet of swamps and forests) that ... costed 72 trucks of Attrition?

The same goes for the other 2 divisions.

The infantry division is definitely baffling. Seeking -14- freight from Chudovo, for it to cost 7 trucks? (Assuming the range 1 and 3 are horse pulled).

For which reason this nonsense is coded that way?
Because 'supply level 3'? I hope not because it's stupid and dumb if that is the case.

Supply level 2 means to get 60% of your supplies and ammunitions and will cripple the morale of the unit and have it suffer more attrition by frontline.
Supply level 3 sets it to decent percentages IF obtainable. That does not mean that the unit trucks should run the Paris Dakar and self destruct for a measly extra % of freight. - Because let's be frank, for the motorized division that's an extra 10% freight they got for 58 trucks. The infantry division has a rather abysmal % of extra freight (14 / 700 pretty much... 2%).

We have a tool (That I personally do not like but it has its sense) to instruct a unit to not receive replacements (limiting TOE %) beyond a certain value; but we do not have some kind of parameter to instruct a unit to not drive trucks into a self destructive race and just content with the amount of supply in easy grasp?

Because you know, all that was needed there (for how I loathe extra micromanagement) is to put some more parameters.

I tend to be a logical person - and simply when something eludes logic or worse, goes against it - I am just at a loss.
I can understand 'freight loss' as it is natural. Trucks being destroyed - when needed all fine.
But that an Infantry Division to gain 2% more freight for that turn (that I do not know in how much it translates, that 14 Freight) wastes the 7% of their trucks (They have 101 trucks...)...

After this turn the 1st Corp will be set out of REFIT for the most (4 divisions out of 5 got replenished and the Panzer division will live with the tanks it has, being set as local mobile reserve).

It may sound like a rant but the logistic system frustrates me beyond oblivion here.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by AlbertN -- 12/23/2021 1:17:12 PM >

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 208
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/23/2021 1:43:10 PM   
AlbertN

 

Posts: 3693
Joined: 10/5/2010
From: Italy
Status: offline 		T71 - Black Sea Coastline sector

The Italians and Romanians here seem cozy.
But they're gradually bleeding.

As part of my study of logistics I fit them in REFIT now that I linked back the railroad connection, as their 'Supply Detail' signals they get -75 / -100 replacements a turn.
I presume that is the attrition rate each division is suffering weekly, just to be sitting there in their measly fort in the mountains.

The poor Romanian infantry division at the rightmost suffered 200 just this turn IF my interpretation of the number of 'replacements' is correct. (Negative numbers).

As I check the Romanian divisions by the port too are at -200ish of replacements.

That means that this whole sector of the front is losing ... between 1000 to 2000 soldiers a week just by staying put?
On the other hand as the railroad was cut by the Soviets, the supplies getting there have been minimal and for some reason the port does not work.
It is not interdicted for all I can see - but it does not receive freight.
Tuapse lvl 2 port is repaired even. I'll try to leave it as only Import Port in the Black Sea for the next turn.

Here I am aware of the issue, I had air meant to bring freight there for a while BUT I expected the port to start functioning AND did not expected the Soviet bold maneuvers either.

On a totally different note I was (still am) planning the operating against the next Soviet port. It may bring their own supply in a dire situation if Sukumi is pretty much the next big depot.

Given, from my end to advance here will get me nowhere and it is not sought.


I hope I am somehow wrong otherwise the amount of casualties per turn are ... massive! Here






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(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 209
RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/23/2021 2:03:43 PM   
Stamb

 

Posts: 1030
Joined: 10/26/2021
Status: offline 		What a trick with export ports!
As i wrote in a topic about a supply (can not find it) i had a feeling that transport system is not working in full power. As super depots can bring 15k to a front easily.

quote:


On the other hand the ... 24th Panzer division felt the need to gain that extra 132 Freight at some insane distance (8 hexes but I bet of swamps and forests) that ... costed 72 trucks of Attrition?

The same goes for the other 2 divisions.

The infantry division is definitely baffling. Seeking -14- freight from Chudovo, for it to cost 7 trucks? (Assuming the range 1 and 3 are horse pulled).

For which reason this nonsense is coded that way?
Because 'supply level 3'? I hope not because it's stupid and dumb if that is the case.


Looks like it is working in this way.
I see no reason to use supply priority greater than 2 if not close to a depot at the back or multiple depots on the front. Otherwise you will lose more than you gain.

And that is why i suggest to display reduction to a CV or at least MP as it was in wite 1.
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5119384

I really hope that logistics system will be reviewed for potential bugs or general improvement of freight flow.

< Message edited by Stamb -- 12/23/2021 2:06:57 PM >

(in reply to AlbertN)
Post #: 210
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