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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/23/2021 2:55:47 PM

AlbertN

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@Stamb: It's a documented 'trick' on the manual! That's where I've learnt that Export Ports are the first depots to get freight of them all!

T71 - Slovak realization...

I was not even aware Slovaks stopped producing artilleries of the sort since a while. Some even since November '41...

Yet their division kept asking for them.

All type of guns / howitzers Slovaks can produce seem to be out of the window alraedy despite the motorized division (and I assume their security division too) wants them in the TOE.

It seems Slovakia has been not checked well. I made already present the issue with their air units... as you can see they're receiving He111s and Bf109s from Germany but have 0 air units to use these planes with!

The latter hardly matters with the current state of the air war (Well I could have used some extra squadrons of fighters maybe in the future).

Now I am quite worried that if the Slovak division gets some mauling it will be pratically a mobile division without internal artillery at all?
I suspect there is a mistake here, and someone fat fingered the wrong end of production date for guns.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/23/2021 3:15:04 PM

AlbertN

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T71 - Fortification Stuff

This is more for new players as I see names I've never seen on the forums check the AAR.

I've kind of learnt it the hard way, and it's very basic here. The manual covers it better but I am the type of player that ... plays, check the manual and read around.
Some of you may know already what I am to write here.

As you can see in the screenshot the German fortifications are a mix of 1 to 3 level forts. It took me a while to learn, I was even thinking there was a bug and reported it as such, for Joel to kindly explain to me and point out to the manual where it was explained! I've read it - and misunderstood it. Then Gunnulf corrected me in their AAR, as I asked bout their impressive fortification line. So if you want you can just read it directly in Gunnulf AAR - which is quite interesting in the whole by itself!

So I think I got it now. Partly at least.

IF your Army is in Assault mode your troops will dig up to lvl 1 Fort.

IF your Army is NOT in Assault mode, AND adjacent to enemy hex (with units or vacant) = up to lvl 3 Fort.

IF your Army is NOT in Assault mode, AND without adjacent enemy hexes = up to lvl 1 Fort.

IF your ARMY is NOT in Assault mode, AND with a Fortified Region / Zone in the hex = up to lvl 3 Fort.

That does not include ports, urban / cities and potential other specific situations that I do not know of - the Manual covers it better.

The 'trick' though is that one can also advance with regiments to not 'gain control' of hexes ahead and peel a precise line with Regiments and reform the divisions there on need, once they're on the spot they're to dig in.

So this teaching I owe to Gunnulf.

Split division, move to gain the precise hexes you want and leave the control to the enemy to the proximity hexes ... and one can fortify up to level 3.

My own lines there would be in way better situation and shape if I had knew of that beforehand! Especially as this zone whole is pratically all plains ... once the rivers freeze...

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/23/2021 3:54:47 PM

AlbertN

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T71 - Production Pools

Here some numbers.

For who does not know, anything with a # before the name is a type of product that is not manufactured anymore. They're just there to be used til destroyed.

Air losses went ballistic since the Allies started their Air Offensive in the West. I thought to be well off with a massive stock of fighters, but that is going down quite fast considering the inaction on the Ostfront.

Panzers - anything that is produced is sent to the front ... stocks are litterally 0. Note the PzIIIm, with 'ch=26'. And there are 26 in the pool. The fresh production!

The only surplus I've is of Tiger tanks. It's time to scavenge all the Heavy Panzer Battallions and cast them into the OStfront, and not even as special reserves but as first line action roaring kittens.

I am gutted at the Me323 Giant production halt. These guys are pivotal to hold some frontline spots away from railyards. But they're also fuel suckers. The Go244 have a nice cargo load but their range is lousy. The SM82 produced on license ought to be good though.

On the artillery department ... I am definitely short of infantry guns.
It seems there are buckets of mortars sitting in the pool - but I've no control on production and for all I've seen in terms of numbers, German mortars are highly inefficient.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/23/2021 5:04:45 PM

AlbertN

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T71 - Leningrad

Last bit of the turn for the AAR, Leningrad update.

Here I royally mucked up.

In the Leningrad perimeter there was that single fortified brigade that I could have easily destroyed - but I decided to attack first the division at the side (vacant hex) expecting it to surrender, and instead it retreated in the fortified zone! The idea was to spare the fatigue on the troops and attack the cheap target after...

The port of Orinovets falls - technically opening up possibilities / easening the risk of losing the ports at the Ladoga side. Given, I quite like them due to the 'Import Port' business, providing a solid anchor of the northern front.

Heavy rain hinders operations on the rest of the line.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/24/2021 12:29:02 PM

AlbertN

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T72 - Soviet Air Training Program?

I noticed (via the Logistic Log) that the Soviets are running a helluva of naval patrol missions all around the Caspian Sea.

Considering German forces are not even remotely operating in the zone - is this a way to train crews and pilots? I cannot think of any other reason, assuming there is a waste of fuel (Don't think it matters for the Soviets at all) and planes (but here I'd say they're using old models that are as good as modern ones in function of trainers. Even better than modern ones since in general the more a plane is performing, the higher are the chances a novice pilot crashes it).

I do not know what's the factual gain in Pilot experience there.

I've developed my own philosophy for now, that the VVS cannot match the LW in A2A but operational and flak losses will butcher the Luftwaffe if they fly.
So in general it's a matter of having the Germans fly. The issue is to force them to fly over and over and over.

But I do not know the production model for Soviet airforce. I just think it is quite insane in numbers.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/24/2021 12:47:17 PM

Jango32

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That is a fix for the Soviet cargo ships randomly getting damaged/destroyed; see https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5092826&mpage=1&key=caspian%2Csea�

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/24/2021 1:06:42 PM

AlbertN

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T72 - Numbers & Recap

This is the first part of the 'relevant numbers' - at least from my perspective.

Here one can measure units on the map and their relative strenght, and the losses inflicted to the opponent.

If I am to compare that to Stalingrad to Berlin - supposedly Axis is well off in terms of fielded army. (There Axis has roughly 3M Germans and matching amount of minors, vs 6.3 or 6.5 M of Soviets, I checked last week but it is easy to load up the scenario all fresh as Soviet and look at the numbers).

Ontop of that, I am not having immediate danger of encirclement right now either.

Said that - I believe the Soviets will still give me lots of trouble and I've to discover now if a supposedly well off Axis can survive the coming onslaught through their artificial deflation of combat efficiency.

As reminder, from June41 to May42 this game has been via the Beta Patches where the artilleries were more combat efficient and the Soviets suffered heavier casualties.

I believe the game here is plenty playable, whereas in a situation of 3M Germans + Minors vs 6.5M of Soviets ... sorry but I suspect the Germans would get hammered quite easily in a mundane situation.

For territorial losses - as a matter of fact Leningrad has yet to fall but I expect it to be falling before the swap of initiative. There are negligible factories there though (6 Veichle factories I think and some light tank ones that may not get evacuated. Not sure...) vs the almost 70 T34 a turn Stalingrad churns.
That is a massive plus for the Soviets I feel.

Besides that - not counting hexes but VPs - the Germans territorial advances are sensible around Moscow.

Alberto why are not counting hexes?

System here is binary. Conquer VP hex or Not Conquer VP hex. To be stopped 10 hexes from <Target VP hex> or adjacent to it won't change the VP situation. That is what determines the game winner.

To have more hexes gives more wiggling and maneuvering space - yes. In many cases also can overextend one and put them in precarious situations. it's a tradeoff.

1943 Plans?

Early to say - I suspect grand elastic defence and trying to hold the VPs where possible without transforming them in Death Traps like Stalingrad was historically. But to manage to weight that well... it will be hard.

In the north I've a whim to hold the expanded perimeter but it will require to free up more rail. Technically it is an insignificant gain as the only 2 noteworthy thing there are a 12 Resource hub and the fact as long as I deny the Soviets the other railroads, Leningrad should be safely held with less troops (Once gained).

Where do you expect the Soviet Winter Offensive to come?

I admit I am clueless. Despite the numbers I feel the Soviets to be very, very strong.
Potentially they can hit -anywhere- with enough Guard Corps to put me in crisis despite the German inflated forces.

If I was the Soviet player I simply 'play' the game mechanism and crash into the Germans in front of Moscow. With Moscow fully functional as NSS all the units at 3 hexes of distance can pretty much horse draw from a pool of 250k Freight that renovates each and every turn.

These lvl divisions that are now rested and in level 3 forts will fend off some attacks, and bleed the Russians some but Germans do take time to fortify back up to level 3 and to replace their losses is not as easy as the Soviets.

After some battering and hammering the Soviets worm in their headway toward Mozaysk and Borodino and that type of penetration pratically has the German front south east of it suddenly become redundant or untenable.

Any new hex gained will have a massive rush of Moscow civilians to instantly fortify it up.

On the other hand the first Soviet interest should be another - to regain VPs before I seize Leningrad. Because right now my High Watermark is there, let's say I lose Rhyazan I drop of 10 points, so whenever I get Leningrad the bump will be 10 shorter.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/24/2021 1:38:03 PM

AlbertN

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@Jango: Thanks for the notion - I remember of that thread but in general all naval losses are extreme for Cargo Ships. Germans in the Baltic sea were not exactly endangered of sensible losses til late war and with Leningrad at least supplied adequately and Finns out of the war. And definitely in the Caspian Sea it would be easier to have no real wear and tear and shrink naval increments til the Germans can operate there.

T72 - Ulterior Numbers

Now ... technically one could just really regard the 'Manpower' there. All the rest can be fluff, especially if one is new.
And I am not new but fail to grasp an amount of things. -- Focusing on the right portion first ... how many bold soldiers to be one has at hand is probably the most relevant number of the whole analysis and preliminary study here. If there is no manpower there, simply no replacements will come, no matter how many guns and tanks and rifles your factories can churn.

Whilst not having a grand impact here, I am definitely aware that some numbers here are plenty wrong. Italian manpower production matching Hungary or Romania is ... fantasy. Now I admit I am unaware if one is inflated or another is deflated, but the population basis of Italy against Romania or Hungary simply suggests neat demographic differences. I assume Italy is undercut exactly as Italian army is under represented in National Morale and ... well their OOBs as well (But that is fine and fair, in WITE only 8th Army / ARMIR is relevant, the rest is TB Fluff. You can easily notice as the 8th Army OOB is extremely well detailed, including all artillery battallions that where in Russia, but somehow between Italy, Balkans and Afrika there are only 3 indipendent artillery battallions?). So ... yes ... sorry for the rant, this is something to evaluate for a War in Europe future game more than anything else (Where I'd really like production control or so.)

The 'cake diagrams'... I am being told that I need 3348 resources to have things function? But somehow there is a cut on what I use. (I mean, sparing 400k resources does not seem bad ... but is there a tradeoff?) I've litterally no control there except the 'hold this resource hub on the map' truly!

Then I've the Resource Store that ... going by math should increase each and every turn, not only I produce a tiny wee bit more than what I officially need... but my railyards function for free (I was not even aware that they had a cost to operate and anyhow 10k in front of thousands of thousands is negligible) and my Heavy Industry can undercut its necessity ... (Will check and post later if I am using it all!)

It's just a process of exploration, some number crunching (which I will delight in today as I've quite some free time and the turn at operational level will be non existant, being all muddy everywhere!)

The OIL situation is known. That is why I'd like to keep Maikop.
Now I've to saw I'd rather have a system that gives the % (30% damage I net the 70% of the whole each turn, not the RNG of having 70% chance to gain 100% of the production or 30% to gain 0 of it -- AND / OR proper and real repairing.

Maikop is still at 71% repairs right now (I may try to assign to the City more construction units but it may be a waste too) and I admit I do not remember to have seized it 29 turns ago ... maybe it's not 1% top BUT being something huge it requires a lot of repairers to ... repair it faster?
I am not even sure how much oil it would net me... (Yes I could do ulterior exploration and mathing that out too!)

Now you cannot see it as the image was too big but the Fuel Production of 173k is divided in 97k out of Fuel Refinery (So pratically a 2:1 ratio, 2k OIL = 1k FUEL) and 76k is out of Synthetic Fuel (4k Resources = 1k Fuel).

That is clear - then I start to go mind boggle. Both Fuel and Supply have a voice ... Units. Does that mean IN UNITS? Or 'UNITS' to be distributed to combat units? Prolly a read on the manual could help here.

I am to stop my deductions there as I am to end up providing non even educated guesses on the next bit. Noting down the study to do (more for science than else considering that is a part I cannot really affect but it can be important to know IF I must cling or not to resource hubs).

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< Message edited by AlbertN -- 12/24/2021 1:45:54 PM >

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/24/2021 1:59:57 PM

Stamb

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AlbertN fuel is irrelevant. Once you reach ~250k as an Axis it will not drop less. I tested in my game vs AI. Not sure about other resources, but typically storage of them is just growing.

I do not like the damage system also when X% damage means that there is a X% chance to not generate some stuff.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/24/2021 2:03:59 PM

AlbertN

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@Stamb: I noticed that too as I checked the Graphs. Will post them next in the AAR.

T72 - Logistic Log report for Production!

Contrary to the manual it seems that 1/3 of Maikop fuel is there. Or so I count, 8 Fuel Items are damaged and I assume that is what Maikop is... I admit I checked the paper manual that I've so it may not be up to date but I am 100% sure I've read there it has a binary system of 'get it all or get none of it' per turn.

The 'Manpower' Parameter can be tricky because I've both Cologne and Hamburg damaged, but these do not tally up to 54, so I am confident it also counts up Soviet manpower hubs seized that generate HIWIs.

It seems to me that the Heavy Industry works at 100% despite not getting the needed resources from the 'cake diagrams'.
And that somehow the FW190 factory in Poznan has not received the needed resources for production??? Of all planes the most modern type of fighter they cut down ... ffs.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/24/2021 2:25:10 PM

AlbertN

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T72 - Fuel Storage

As Stamb pointed out above, it appears that there is a lower treshold that the Axis cannot drop under.

Besides the VPs of Krasnodar and Maikop this makes the whole Caucasus campaign entirely redundant - and I believe massively unhealthy for the game.

The German front would be definitely stronger if the digging in was around the Don River Bend, and across the Kerch Peninsula. (I do not think even 3 Guard Corps can get across there if there are well dug in German defenders of non regimental size - if I've interpretated a ferry crossing right - it should have massive penalties at least).

Alas I feel it tends to be late for these major changes since otherwise it seems the Axis fuel simply smokes ever so quickly and in exceedingly fashion. It was a matter of fine tuning the equations, set operational tempo, etcetera.

In some cases folks define WW2 the first Oil War.

So technically I can stay put and idle OR operate all out with my whole armoured and motorized assets, I'll be good.

I hope at some point there will be a major overhaul there in the department. But I deeply doubt that will happen.

I repeat without the 'Oil Carrot' there will be relatively little reason to go in Caucasus except VPs.
But at this stage it was better to try to smoke Stalingrad 70 T34 a turn factory...

Every time I touch this topic I feel bitter and disappointed.

Stuff to do in real so taking a break from the pc.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/24/2021 5:20:14 PM

AlbertN

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T72 - Repairing Test

Now - I assume I overloaded it with construction units but I wish to see if there is a more meaningful progress made past the 1% in a single turn with 4-5 worker battallions AND priority repair (not that there is much else to prioritize over right now BUT it was there since the past...).

One was already there, the 105th, due to the Priority Repairs. I am not sure if the system will see already 4 others and do not issue the 5th during next logistic phase.

This may be meaningless for OIL due to the fact Oil is redundant right now as ascertained above, but it can come quite handy to know if I can overload with construction battallions a bombed city in Germany to accelerate the repairs of manpower / weapon / armament factories.

Right now I've spead around an amount of construction companies in the TBs because they were overloaded in some.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/24/2021 5:41:24 PM

AlbertN

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T72 - Heavy Mud hinders operations...

I thought to be able to cherrypick some targets but it was not the case. I am not saying I've got two bloodied noses there at all but I was convinced to be able to shove away the Soviets...

The single division is one that has abysmal morale (Red label one!) and that for some reason MSAG keeps sending forward. I feel he may prefer I train up forces (and fatigue them) on that target than attacking other troops closeby?

Leningrad - it seems I've to wait for proper freezing snow before to furthen operations there if the depleted defenders can still intimidate my attackers to stop an attack at distance.

On the good notion, it should be joy if it works the same when a German unready division or so will be able to stop 3 Guard Corps or the like later on, in heavy mud!

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/24/2021 6:53:04 PM

Stamb

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About repairment speed https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5109572.
Lets compare with your result

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/25/2021 2:53:13 PM

AlbertN

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T73 - Snow arrives

The Luftwaffe has been grounded for the time being except the port interdiction operation already announced, and bombers made their way ... well I've learnt of pilots and reserve stuff so ... I am not sure if the Luftwaffe can work that way but I've sent bombers around Frankfurt and Berlin. Supposedly they can simply feed their own supply at the NSS.

That should lighten up the requirements of Freight at the frontlines, I assume.

And due to the inactivity of the previous turn I started with military operations.

All successes except a preliminary stalemate within the Leningrad perimeter. For this turn no Air Supply came into Leningrad and it makes me wonder why.
Is it a courtesy from the opponent? Have the flak guns damaged so many of their planes that there are not enough? Are they merely resting for one turn? Is the internal depot depleted of supply and there is a need of 'less mouths' to be fed?

Ultimately as the system is binary, all the perimeter except THE one and only VP-Leningrad hex can fall without me netting a single VP out of it.

Then we've the 'Eastern Perimeter' - MSAG keeps pushing forward troops to fill gaps, including pretty weak formations. That keep entering back the same hexes. I assume he fears infiltration from my end; but I am also quite content with a persistant inflicting some losses and supposedly keeping my divisions there trained up.
The airfield system allows me to keep them decently supplied.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/25/2021 2:58:49 PM

AlbertN

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T73 - Moscow Zone stalemates

The Soviets attacked during their turn - and I realized something I was amiss. The weather changes between turns it seems.

I am 100% sure I had mud all over the place and the Soviets attack me with Light Snow / Snowfall. That is a peculiar dynamic, the fact that weather is not mirrored between Axis turn and Soviet turn.

Nonetheless, Mister Model leads magistrally the defences and the Soviet attack is easily repelled.

Then Germans launch a heavy attack on a Guard Corps that advanced in a hex and only had 1 trench level... but the outcome is a phyrric victory for Germans, exhausting troops for a real no gain. Actually I think at that ratio, Germans have definitely lost the fight even if the Russians withdrew.

Considering the investment that I had there I expected a crushing victory!

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/25/2021 4:10:40 PM

AlbertN

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T73 - Maikop Repairs / Southern Caucasus

Maikop despite having 5 Construction Units still had the OIL Factory repaired by 1%.
Thus confirming the issue already reported by other players.

Supposedly entirely insignificant anyhow as long as OIL has no impact on the game. (Which will require a complete fine tuning of oil consumption, production and whatnot going by the diagrams and cakes). Thus I do not see it happening anytime soon if at all for WITE2.

Probably I am one of the few players that prefer a game where 'map control of resources' is quite relevant, more so than the 'struggle against the system to bring freight from point A to point B'. Not that I disdain the latter - that is important as well.

Then - in the name of 'bring stuff from point A to point B' I did the naval interdiction as planned.
I assigned the Romanian fighters as escorts there - they half did the job but there were quite some losses so the Luftwaffe will make its appearance with fighters imminently.

I do not know how local depots are stocked up but if they live on 'get stuff, deliver stuff' ... well the rail does not get there! There is a single hex gap that is road, interrupting the railroad right there (at the bottom edge of the screenshot). To prolong these guys logistic line ... well I do not know how handy it may come, in general logistic strains are felt in time and not right off the bat.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/25/2021 5:23:06 PM

vilcum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

I am 100% sure I had mud all over the place and the Soviets attack me with Light Snow / Snowfall. That is a peculiar dynamic, the fact that weather is not mirrored between Axis turn and Soviet turn.

Weather is mirrored..but (opposite to WITE1) it changes on SOVIET turn only

Manual pg43: The Weather changes before the Soviet phase (in other
words the German turn uses the same weather as the
preceding Soviet turn). This reflects the Soviet Union�s (and
its Allies) better weather forecasting capability.

< Message edited by vilcum -- 12/25/2021 5:25:12 PM >

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/25/2021 6:24:29 PM

Stamb

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN
...
Probably I am one of the few players that prefer a game where 'map control of resources' is quite relevant, more so than the 'struggle against the system to bring freight from point A to point B'. Not that I disdain the latter - that is important as well.
...

You are not the only one :)

Also impressive result by a Model. True master of defense.

< Message edited by Stamb -- 12/25/2021 6:30:40 PM >

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/27/2021 1:00:26 PM

AlbertN

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@Vilcum: Thanks for the explaination! I read the manual at spots pretty much so that notion eluded me!

T74 - Leningrad Air Supply

Here I made a new realization.

I thought the AA was at least damaging a helluva of airplanes if not destroying them but it's not the case either.

The 2 runs needed to air supply Leningrad report some losses - the AA usage is nothing new, German AA is useless and Soviet AA tends to be insane and that is factually proved. This is Fly Over though, I am not sure if it will change anything if I'll get forces adjacent to the Airfields that receive the supply.

The noose is closing in.

This was the only 'battle' the Soviets have had all across the front except some air recon at the Don River Bend sector where I had a relative pull back.

Everything is quiet and silent and I have to think and ponder - the Luftwaffe will launch a serie of air recon mission across most sectors of the front to ascertain where the enemy is having build ups.

The 'Graphs' reveal that roughly a thousands of AFVs have been stripped from other Theather Boxes on Soviet end, and I assume they're coming to the map.

I'll do another quick post before to go and run errands!

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/27/2021 1:11:13 PM

AlbertN

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T74 - Leningrad Tango

I believe by now MSG determined to bunker in Leningrad proper and is slowly withdrawing in there.

I am of the opinion to ram into the 4-93 hex, there is a Rifle Corp in there along the fortified brigade.
From my perspective the difference is to have it surrender now or have it into Leningrad proper next turn.

From one side there is the eagerness to finish Leningrad, that will liberate an amount of troops for other duties; but at the same time to assault it will be an exceedinly bloodied affairs.

Memories of previous winter emerge, where then 11th Army arrival saved a sector from complete collapse and a disaster, after they finished the siege of Sebastopol.

Now off for errands for a while!

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/27/2021 3:03:39 PM

AlbertN

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T74 - Romanian Uselessness

While the Luftwaffe fighters arrived and prepared the Romanians continued their aerial operations there.
Supposedly Romanian pilots are still quite decent right?

Well - alas ... not.

The grand plan was to have the Airfield bombed first to open the way to the naval bombers for the interdiction. The naval bombers being the only German assets flying there and recon.

The Romanian bombers arrived undisturbed there (first 2 attacks are in fact airfield recon) and then the Flak just butchers the Romanians that seem uncapable of scoring grand ground hits on the many planes parked there.

The (same?) Yaks then intercepts multiple times the naval missions, each and every time inflicting way more casualties to the Axis than what they suffer (Romanian Fighters + German navals) roughly at same fighter amount.

In the whole pattern of the Airfield bombing runs these 37mm obliterated the Romanian bomber squadrons.
At this stage I may as well retire them and have them join the Hungarians.

Q&A:

For what the Axis Minor Bombers are good for?
If you keep them on map they eat supplies like piglets. Send them to be a % value in the Russian Garrison. That's what they're good for.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/27/2021 3:37:40 PM

AlbertN

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T74 - Leningrad Assault failure

Maybe I should have used the siege guns - but in my experience they tend to be ambushed and destroyed somehow in urban warfare combat.

I used the new 'Heavy Assault Guns' but they proved pretty useless - lost 3 of them and they barely hit anything with a 0.25 HPE factor.

There were some heavy artillertie there, Skoda 305s and an amount of regular German heavy artilleries still in production, but the Russian 76mm were more effective than the huge calibers due to defender business (I still assume gargantuan payback when the Russian massed artilleries will be highly inefficient in turn by attacking but that is how it should be - they litterally had bazillion of guns and the game represent that in its quantitative model.)

Nonetheless, it seems that the Rifle Corps will get 'safely' into the Leningrad City Fort hex too. If that is what the Soviets want.

The surrendered bit was just a single Fortified Zone with some SUs attached.

Not happy at all as how this turn is going.

The air recon also failed to gather meaningful intel on where the massing up of Soviets is happening. So either eyes are blind in the snow or Recon has been insufficient or MSAG is massing up things decently behind the frontlines to not be caught and sighted.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/27/2021 3:40:55 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

T74 - Romanian Uselessness

...
For what the Axis Minor Bombers are good for?
If you keep them on map they eat supplies like piglets. Send them to be a % value in the Russian Garrison. That's what they're good for.

...

as ever, they are perfectly ok when bracketed with LW formations or on a quiet sector

they make no difference in the SU garrison box as that has no air requirements

< Message edited by loki100 -- 12/27/2021 3:42:26 PM >

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/27/2021 4:07:06 PM

AlbertN

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T74 - Disfunctional Logistic System continued

Now, the more I play the more I am put off as I study and observe things more.

I was being told 'learn the logistic system' but there is nothing to be learned here when it's ... eluding any logical mechanic.

Here we see the Port of Tuapse - that was set for this Logistic Phase as Import Port, Priority 3.

In fact it received 3500ish Freight. Via RAIL and not via SEA from ... Genichesk.
Gernichesk is a Port, Set as Export Port, Priority 1, located at the eastern side of the Crimean Peninsula Ishtmus.

Issue nr.1 - I believe PORTS when short of ships to move freight, ferry via rail from EXPORT to IMPORT port.

Now of that 3500 Freight, I know about 1000 went north. At the Salks depot that is West of the Manich lake.

So I assume roughly 2500 Freight got distributed right since Tuapse has only 6 freight stored.

Now you'd expect that first of all the closemost units are served. But somehow the Romanian division in the mountains got an absolute of 0 freight this turn and has the amazing 12% of needed supplies in it... That is a 2 hex distance.

Even the 2 Romanian divisions that are 1 hex away, connected by average road (That I dare say in this game means there are asphalted roads at least) receive freight from a depot that is 10 hexes away. With the subsequent loss of trucks too.

So - if the units just closeby have not got that 2000-2500 freight that was hereby present, where that Freight has gone?

Should I check one by one the Supply Details of all the local units 'for science'?

This is not a matter of UI, it's just a matter of either bad design or bad coding (if the coding does not represent the intended design).

I am trying really HARD to learn logistics, but my mind works in a way. If I've stuff at 1 hex away, why to get stuff 10 hexes away?
I understand folks saying 'Oh Look there in the north your trucks will crash themselves through 10 hexes of heavy forest without roads' - but here we're speaking of being masochistic and inept.

Someone said the game is about to bring stuff from Point A to Point B. But there is little to do if then who needs to get the stuff goes and look for it at Point C.

I'll check now the other units BUT they have their own local depots (which I start to suspect to be useless) and since a long while by now I rely on Air Supply to 'spot' ferry freight on need. I had to fill the map with airfields specifically for this purpose and reason. To make up for shortcomings of the logistic disfunctional system.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/27/2021 4:15:54 PM

AlbertN

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@Loki:

Bombers do help with numbers in the Soviet Garrison.

The Ground component has up to a +10 % value from bombers. And with a 128 baseline of ground line troops, I can up to 12.8 of Bomber, out of the 5 that I've right now.

So I could even send some Luftwaffe bombers in there to round up numbers.

Bombers do not contribute at all to the Air % - which is indeed absent from the Soviet Garrison TB.

I do perfectly agree it is not exactly the 'most historical' use to have level bombers used against partisans, but that's how the game is and where the game pushes in terms of min-maxing the Axis Minor bomber units.

All of the Air Units can contribute some to the final total. Recon is 'Patrol', and Fighters and Bombers are all listed there. Heck I could even bring Night Fighters supposedly to help against the partisans.
___

Romanian bombers on a 'quiet' sector means they're just grounded anyhow and doing nothing.

If their bombing efficiency is non existant, and even the smallest of the calibers of the AA destroys them in abundant ratio - they've no place on the frontline for the amount of bombers Romania has.

Assuming the 1000 kg Romanian bomb takes the same freight as the German one. For instance.

But we have differing opinions on a few matters - and how to employ units often is a matter of opinion.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/27/2021 4:30:42 PM

AlbertN

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T74 - Logistic Disfunctions continued II

Here the next issue I stumbled in.

And I admit here I may be 'wrong' in how I do things.

There are 2 separate ordeals.

1) I've the Italian frontline that I wish to supply and the depots and railroad arrive right there but the freight these depots receive 100-200 freight each. (So that is where I've air supply lines for) despite being Priority 4 and the other closeby depot that you saw received almost 3500!

2) A Panzerkorp kept in a position deemed of 'flexibility' that I want to keep well fuelled and supplied (and soon refitted with some panzers too...). I thought 'let's set that depot to Priority 4 because I want to stock up freight to refit my panzers'.

Now what emerged here is that my Italian mountaineers decided to resupply from the Panzerkorp depots.

As you can see there is a HUGE distance in the middle of snows and rains and whatnot since the Panzerkorp is NORTH-WEST of ROSTOV. And the Italian Mountaineers are SOUTH of MAIKOP.

The system screams at me I cannot really have a reserve build up there unless I starve my Italian mountaineers (and they're already at 21% Supplies, far from even the low treshold of priority 1 or 2 in case I was to lower that. They're at Priority 3 atm).
So I expect even from Priority 1 they'd have gone scavenging something. At such distance that ... the 40% of the Freight they claimed, was lost on the way.

Now - I shall resupply right off the bat via Air Supply, as I do that each and every turn. Follow me in the process.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/27/2021 4:40:14 PM

AlbertN

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Supply Workabouts - Before Air Supply numbers:

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/27/2021 5:01:44 PM

AlbertN

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Logistics and Air Supply - Continued

Now this is the follow up.

The Romanian Air Transport squadron has gone to Tuapse (You won't see it here).

2 'Stab' equipped deliberately with 4 Me323 each have brought stuff to Depot 12, previously entirely neglected by the logistic system as it is a 3 Priority depot. (And that is in the hex of the Sforzesca division).

Then 2 Italian squadrons have been used to ferry ulterior freight.

Noticed there is a -new- airfield there, north of the 2 Romanian units that I've put in show.
That airfield has just been placed (thus has 0% construction rate!) BUT it is fully useable as airfield to receive freight from Air Supply (but not to extract units from pockets). Is that an exploit? Probably it is (I am unsure if in an isolated pocket a new airfield otherwise can be brought).
But I do not feel remotely bad to use this type of 'exploit' or 'bug' - because the logistic system does not function and I've to make up for it somehow.

The 4th Romanian Division that was at 18% supply before the Air Supply ordeal was unable to somehow get enough supply.
Its supply situation there at the side. They got -3- Freight only by the depot where the Romanian HQ is...

Now as I can surgically replenish the supplies of ... units that are somehow not supplied but closeby to a rail system ... well I think a hand washes the other out there.

I'd rather have a real functioning logistic system AND that airbases become functional only when at ... some 50% of being built up?

Though I've discovered this airbase business only the previous turn, previously I was always waiting for them to be built up and thus 'lighted up' in green in the Air Supply interface.

Next the real problem is - I do air supply every single turn there, with the same squadrons since a while.
In a week of static position doing absolutely NOTHING in game terms there is a drop from 70-90% to 20-40% of Supply?
I understand troops must eat and all but to that extent?

Anyhow without air supply, these units would just be pretty much cannibalizing themselves in the current logistic system.

You can get 100 Freight, it is not taken. You can get 3500 freight, it is not taken and redirected.

The little supposed means to control and rein in freight do not work. The only thing that you know it works well is Air Supply (barring interceptions) because it is surgical.

At this stage the map will be gradually dotted of Airfields just for air supply spreading.

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RE: A tale from '42 - AlbertN vs MSAG - 12/27/2021 5:20:54 PM

AlbertN

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T74 - Dances in the Caucasus

Since OIL is factually not a problem, the Axis mobile forces took some plunging attack.

Yes it may be an issue with having it delivered here refined from Germany but that's another tale - that we just discussed!

So operations - that are more exciting than number crunching and to go through puzzles!

The Axis obtained swinging results here - freshly used Tigers took their first beating here. This was a hasty attack and I expected it to win, against a single and supposedly weak (seemingly weak too) Soviet division with little to no support! Though it followed up a deliberate attack that set it ... to retreat and with minimal losses.

I am not that bothered to lose Tigers though, first I've some in reserve, second with -1- click I can cut all the logistic crap to bring Tigers to the Front and relocate the SU into the OKH that can sit either in some mighty stocked depot or truly yours Berlin with its massive amount of Freight.

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