Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Volksgrenadier Divisions (long)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes Offensive >> Volksgrenadier Divisions (long) Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Volksgrenadier Divisions (long) - 12/15/2021 6:37:09 PM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline
Thesis to demonstrate.

I think volksgrenadier divisions should have AT guns in their regiments (directly among the infantry). Probably with the support of horse-drawn carriages or trucks. Most German infantry used trucks to transport supplies, not soldiers (contrary to US or Brits).
In the game world, a separate AT battalion has to be supported by infantry to survive anyway. Since there is only one such battalion in division, it can only support one stack. So the remaining divisional infantry battalions remain without AT/AA cover. I think it would be easier to manage, if you split the AT battalion between 4 line infantry battalions.

As far as I remember they only have panzerschrecks (but not much) and not enough infantry attack power. I don't know why 1st batalion has 6 panzerschrecks and 2nd only 4. Still 10 units of panzerschrecks in regiment are too little. Maybe both should have 6. This will be 12 units in regiment (still not much). But there should be at least 36 units in division, so 18 panzerschrecks in regiment (9 in every battalion).

Sturmgewehr 44 should give similar offensive and defensive power for infantry. At least they should be better in attack than Allied units in defense. VolksGren Stg44 has soft power 12/18. GI Veterans 10/15. I suggest 15/18 for those grenadiers. But it can be controversial.


Volksgrenadier Divisions
with Wayne Turner

The Volksgrenadier divisions were formed in the Autumn of 1944 after the destruction of Army Group Centre by the Soviet Bagration Offensive in the east and of the Fifth Panzer Army in Normandy in the west. The new infantry divisions were designed to economise on personnel and to be primarily focused on defence. These new formations combined the names Volks (People’s), to inspire a sense of nationalism and fighting spirit, and grenadier, to invoke the traditions of the German military.

In an attempt to optimise their fighting power, while economising man-power, each Volkgrenadierdivision had three infantry regiments of two battalions (unlike an Infanteriedivision, which had three battalions in each regiment). To compensate the Volksgrenadier units were armed with a higher proportion of automatic weapons to create a higher volume of firepower.

The Sturmgewehr 44 (or StG 44) assault rifle was used to arm two of platoons in each Volksgrenadierkompanie, giving them devastating firepower, but only at short ranges.

They were also issued with a very large numbers of Panzerfaust anti-tank weapons, once again short-ranged, but still a powerful asset against Allied tanks. The highly efficient MG42 machine-gun still played an important role with the assault rifle armed Sturm (assault) platoons issued with two in the third squad, and three issued to the third Schützen (rifle) platoon to providing their main firepower.

The division’s supporting arms also economised on personnel. The artillery was organised into larger six-gun batteries (instead of four guns) to save on the number skilled artillery specialist required in each battalion, resulting in less batteries, but usually the same number of guns or more.

The Volksgrenadier divisions retained Panzerjäger (anti-tank), FlaK (Anti-aircraft), Pionier (combat engineer), and Füsilier (light infantry and recon) companies or battalions like the older Infanterie divisions.

The divisions were organised around a core of veterans from the divisions destroyed in the east or west and filled out with new conscripts or excess personnel from the Luftwaffe (air force) and Kreigsmarine (navy). The mix of recruits, size of the veteran cadre, and the time new division had to form meant the performance of the divisions varied considerably. However, the Volksgrenadier divisions played a vital role in the defence of Germany through 1944 and 1945.

Taken from: https://www.gf9.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=3568
Post #: 1
RE: Volksgrenadier Divisions (long) - 12/15/2021 8:02:04 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Khanti

Thesis to demonstrate.

I think volksgrenadier divisions should have AT guns in their regiments (directly among the infantry). Probably with the support of horse-drawn carriages or trucks. Most German infantry used trucks to transport supplies, not soldiers (contrary to US or Brits).
In the game world, a separate AT battalion has to be supported by infantry to survive anyway. Since there is only one such battalion in division, it can only support one stack. So the remaining divisional infantry battalions remain without AT/AA cover. I think it would be easier to manage, if you split the AT battalion between 4 line infantry battalions.

As far as I remember they only have panzerschrecks (but not much) and not enough infantry attack power. I don't know why 1st batalion has 6 panzerschrecks and 2nd only 4. Still 10 units of panzerschrecks in regiment are too little. Maybe both should have 6. This will be 12 units in regiment (still not much). But there should be at least 36 units in division, so 18 panzerschrecks in regiment (9 in every battalion).

Sturmgewehr 44 should give similar offensive and defensive power for infantry. At least they should be better in attack than Allied units in defense. VolksGren Stg44 has soft power 12/18. GI Veterans 10/15. I suggest 15/18 for those grenadiers. But it can be controversial.


Volksgrenadier Divisions
with Wayne Turner

The Volksgrenadier divisions were formed in the Autumn of 1944 after the destruction of Army Group Centre by the Soviet Bagration Offensive in the east and of the Fifth Panzer Army in Normandy in the west. The new infantry divisions were designed to economise on personnel and to be primarily focused on defence. These new formations combined the names Volks (People’s), to inspire a sense of nationalism and fighting spirit, and grenadier, to invoke the traditions of the German military.

In an attempt to optimise their fighting power, while economising man-power, each Volkgrenadierdivision had three infantry regiments of two battalions (unlike an Infanteriedivision, which had three battalions in each regiment). To compensate the Volksgrenadier units were armed with a higher proportion of automatic weapons to create a higher volume of firepower.

The Sturmgewehr 44 (or StG 44) assault rifle was used to arm two of platoons in each Volksgrenadierkompanie, giving them devastating firepower, but only at short ranges.

They were also issued with a very large numbers of Panzerfaust anti-tank weapons, once again short-ranged, but still a powerful asset against Allied tanks. The highly efficient MG42 machine-gun still played an important role with the assault rifle armed Sturm (assault) platoons issued with two in the third squad, and three issued to the third Schützen (rifle) platoon to providing their main firepower.

The division’s supporting arms also economised on personnel. The artillery was organised into larger six-gun batteries (instead of four guns) to save on the number skilled artillery specialist required in each battalion, resulting in less batteries, but usually the same number of guns or more.

The Volksgrenadier divisions retained Panzerjäger (anti-tank), FlaK (Anti-aircraft), Pionier (combat engineer), and Füsilier (light infantry and recon) companies or battalions like the older Infanterie divisions.

The divisions were organised around a core of veterans from the divisions destroyed in the east or west and filled out with new conscripts or excess personnel from the Luftwaffe (air force) and Kreigsmarine (navy). The mix of recruits, size of the veteran cadre, and the time new division had to form meant the performance of the divisions varied considerably. However, the Volksgrenadier divisions played a vital role in the defence of Germany through 1944 and 1945.

Taken from: https://www.gf9.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=3568


Read my earlier thread about the VG.Btl. TO&E. They defo need for PzSchrecks; they had 54 in the regiment.

Klink, Oberst

_____________________________

My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

(in reply to Khanti)
Post #: 2
RE: Volksgrenadier Divisions (long) - 12/17/2021 12:26:34 PM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline
+1
They will have 54 then ;-)

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 3
RE: Volksgrenadier Divisions (long) - 12/17/2021 3:54:56 PM   
nikdav


Posts: 895
Joined: 3/9/2008
From: Italy
Status: offline
Achtung !
All divisions TO&E is reduced with the "Scramble table "!
For example the 89.ID had only 5.585 men on 15 dec.44 !
The 272.VGD only 8.771, 326.VGD 9.083, 9.VGD 8.730....(all rations strenght, the combat strenght was no more than 50%)

Davide


< Message edited by nikdav -- 12/17/2021 3:55:14 PM >

(in reply to Khanti)
Post #: 4
RE: Volksgrenadier Divisions (long) - 12/17/2021 4:09:43 PM   
ranknfile

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 2/9/2021
From: New Orleans
Status: offline
I would point out that the Stg 44 had a much higher muzzle velocity (685 m/s or 2,247 ft/s) than the 9mm Parabellum from an MP 40 (400 m/s or 1,312 ft/s).
It certainly compares favorably to the muzzle velocity of the 7.92 Mauser from a K98 (760 m/s 2,493 ft/s).

One can easily find pictures of American GIs carrying both Stg 44 and Panzerfausts; attesting to the effectiveness of both weapons.

(in reply to nikdav)
Post #: 5
RE: Volksgrenadier Divisions (long) - 12/17/2021 4:29:14 PM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nikdav

Achtung !
All divisions TO&E is reduced with the "Scramble table "!
For example the 89.ID had only 5.585 men on 15 dec.44 !
The 272.VGD only 8.771, 326.VGD 9.083, 9.VGD 8.730....(all rations strenght, the combat strenght was no more than 50%)

Davide



Yes, Davide. I did not added units on map, just adjusted TOEs.
Now there are 3 volksgrenadier regiments of 2 battalions each (6 battalions). Each CAN have up to 6 pzschrecks, so 6 bat x 6 pzschrecks is 36 units. Plus 2 x 9 units of fusilier and pionier battalions. Means 36+9+9=54 potential paschrecks.

I am aware of scramble rules - did not change them.
But If I like to replace some units using others as source - this will make it possible to have strong division :-)

(in reply to nikdav)
Post #: 6
RE: Volksgrenadier Divisions (long) - 12/18/2021 1:29:55 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Khanti


quote:

ORIGINAL: nikdav

Achtung !
All divisions TO&E is reduced with the "Scramble table "!
For example the 89.ID had only 5.585 men on 15 dec.44 !
The 272.VGD only 8.771, 326.VGD 9.083, 9.VGD 8.730....(all rations strenght, the combat strenght was no more than 50%)

Davide



Yes, Davide. I did not added units on map, just adjusted TOEs.
Now there are 3 volksgrenadier regiments of 2 battalions each (6 battalions). Each CAN have up to 6 pzschrecks, so 6 bat x 6 pzschrecks is 36 units. Plus 2 x 9 units of fusilier and pionier battalions. Means 36+9+9=54 potential paschrecks.

I am aware of scramble rules - did not change them.
But If I like to replace some units using others as source - this will make it possible to have strong division :-)

Email me and I send you my adjusted TO&E OOB for the VG-Btl. etc., Kapitan Kloss. Feedback appreciated.

Klink, Oberst

_____________________________

My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

(in reply to Khanti)
Post #: 7
RE: Volksgrenadier Divisions (long) - 12/19/2021 12:46:58 PM   
Khanti

 

Posts: 317
Joined: 8/28/2007
From: Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink


Klink, Oberst


I've sent PM.
If you haven't got it I can post here email ad

Kloss, Kapitan

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 8
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes Offensive >> Volksgrenadier Divisions (long) Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.359