[WAD] Proper usage of R-27T/ET

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[WAD] Proper usage of R-27T/ET

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[WAD] Proper usage of R-27T/ET - 12/18/2021 4:06:08 PM

Filitch

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Please look at attached scenario. One side is F-35 with turned radar off. Opponent - Su-35S is also in silent mode. Su-35S detects F-35 using IRST. I try to launch R-27ET manually at distance 20 nm. But can't. Text in Weapon Allocation dialog describes that "Weapon must detect target prior to firing". In same time, the capability Lock-on After Launch is declared for R-27ET in database. BOL mode is also unavailable.

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< Message edited by Dimitris -- 12/18/2021 8:18:19 PM >

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RE: Proper usage of R-27T/ET - 12/18/2021 4:48:25 PM

boogabooga

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You need to get within 10nm.

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RE: Proper usage of R-27T/ET - 12/18/2021 4:59:02 PM

Filitch

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Yes, you are right. 10 nm is a range of IR-seeker. But what about Lock-on After Launch? As I understand R-27T/ET missiles equipped with inertial guidance system used for mid-course guidance while seeker isn't lock aim on.

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RE: Proper usage of R-27T/ET - 12/18/2021 6:47:00 PM

Dimitris

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The R-27T/ET does indeed have a _very_ theoretical LOAL capability, similar to the R-40T/TD. However, to my knowledge, this was never used operationally because (contrary to the R-40T/TD and also to R-27R/ER) the missile does not have a datalink for mid-course guidance. As a result, the missile is extremely prone to locking on heat sources other than the intended target. For this reason, in practice only the LOBL mode is used.

The R-27R/ER does have a mid-course datalink and can indeed be "blind-fired" and guided with terminal-only illumination. This capability was added specifically to deal with western noise jamming preventing pre-launch illumination.

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RE: Proper usage of R-27T/ET - 12/18/2021 7:21:33 PM

boogabooga

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Not having that datalink on the R-27T/ET was a missed opportunity for an early AMRAAM-like capability, IMHO. Assuming that the seeker has a true all- aspect capability, that is.

< Message edited by boogabooga -- 12/18/2021 7:22:35 PM >

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RE: Proper usage of R-27T/ET - 12/18/2021 7:28:27 PM

Filitch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dimitris

The R-27T/ET does indeed have a _very_ theoretical LOAL capability, similar to the R-40T/TD. However, to my knowledge, this was never used operationally because (contrary to the R-40T/TD and also to R-27R/ER) the missile does not have a datalink for mid-course guidance. As a result, the missile is extremely prone to locking on heat sources other than the intended target. For this reason, in practice only the LOBL mode is used.

The R-27R/ER does have a mid-course datalink and can indeed be "blind-fired" and guided with terminal-only illumination. This capability was added specifically to deal with western noise jamming preventing pre-launch illumination.

Sure. Completely agree about absence of datalink for mid-cource guidance at R-27T/ET modification. My knowledge is same. Probably there is a mean to remove LOAL capability from DB or avail to launch missile to straightforward trajectory?

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RE: Proper usage of R-27T/ET - 12/18/2021 7:32:39 PM

boogabooga

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What is the point of an extended range missile (R-27ET) if it is limited by its seeker needing to LOBL?

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RE: Proper usage of R-27T/ET - 12/18/2021 7:36:29 PM

Dimitris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: boogabooga
What is the point of an extended range missile (R-27ET) if it is limited by its seeker needing to LOBL?

It was designed explicitly to run-down fast receding targets in a heavy ECM environment. B-1Bs, FB-111s, SR-71s etc. In such a predicament, the effective kinematic launch range (especially at low altitude) is pretty close to IR-acquisition range. A less energetic missile under the same conditions is a non-starter.

(This is part of why that weapon was, until recently, fielded only by "interceptor" units)

< Message edited by Dimitris -- 12/18/2021 7:39:25 PM >

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RE: [WAD] Proper usage of R-27T/ET - 12/19/2021 3:25:09 PM

SeaQueen

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As was pointed out earlier, IR ALAMO variants in CMO have a longer flyout range than their IR detector can support. That raises the question of what their actual value is. From an energetic perspective, AA-10s are really tough, because even though they don't get fired from a long way away, they'd have an awful lot of excess power making them potentially extremely maneuverable.

IR ALAMO variants are one of the most interesting air to air weapons to me.

Fear the duck!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Filitch

Please look at attached scenario. One side is F-35 with turned radar off. Opponent - Su-35S is also in silent mode. Su-35S detects F-35 using IRST. I try to launch R-27ET manually at distance 20 nm. But can't. Text in Weapon Allocation dialog describes that "Weapon must detect target prior to firing". In same time, the capability Lock-on After Launch is declared for R-27ET in database. BOL mode is also unavailable.

< Message edited by SeaQueen -- 12/19/2021 3:26:07 PM >

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