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German Navy - 1/1/2022 1:42:45 PM   
DrZom

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		First, Happy New Year to all. Hoping that 2022 is not just another 2020 too.

Why can't the Germans build light cruisers? Just because they didn't in real life does not mean they could not if they wanted to.

Following a successful invasion of England light cruisers would be helpful for patrolling the Atlantic in anticipation of the American invasion to regain England. After taking on and defeating the English home fleet the German fleet will be much depleted and cannot rely on submarines and a handful of battlecruisers/ battleships alone.

Light cruisers can be very useful to any sea power as they can fill multiple roles. Why deprive Germany of the option?
Post #: 1
RE: German Navy - 1/1/2022 2:19:00 PM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline 		Germany actually did build a handful of light cruisers in the 1920s and 30s. Seems like they were mostly used for training in the Baltic.

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RE: German Navy - 1/1/2022 6:54:11 PM   
ThunderLizard11

 

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Joined: 2/28/2018
Status: offline 		Not sure why you would want to build any of these. The only ships I build for Germany are subs pre-Russian capitulation.

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RE: German Navy - 1/2/2022 1:24:39 AM   
Mithrilotter

 

Posts: 216
Joined: 2/18/2016
Status: offline 		According to Wiki: The six cruisers of the Emden, Königsberg, and Leipzig classes all served in World War II, and only one—Nürnberg—survived the war intact. Two were sunk during the invasion of Norway and the remaining three vessels were destroyed by Allied bombers in the final months of the war. Nürnberg, the last cruiser completed by Germany, was seized by the Soviet Union and commissioned as Admiral Makarov, serving until the late 1950s.

I find uses for all Axis ships. I would like to see some German light cruisers in the game. I believe the reason that they aren't is because the game German Navy is more powerful than historic for game play reasons. For example, an Allied ship unit generally represents pairs of ships, while German ships generally are represented one for one. Considering that two light cruisers were lost in the Norway invasion, even with a two for one ratio, with four remaining historical light cruisers there could be two game German light cruisers added.

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RE: German Navy - 1/2/2022 8:34:43 PM   
DrZom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderLizard2

Not sure why you would want to build any of these. The only ships I build for Germany are subs pre-Russian capitulation.


Not sure why the option is not there. The option should be available. No?


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RE: German Navy - 1/2/2022 9:08:01 PM   
SittingDuck

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline 		The Unit Build Limit doesn't have German light cruisers populated (any put in for potential build). This is why.

The Unit Build Limit is there to obviously prevent things such as Germany building 20 tank armies and so on. And it is roughly setup to parallel what was produced or appeared in the war (although I don't know how accurately). But the downside is that it doesn't allow for variation in production strategy (if a unit type isn't populated in the editor for the nation in question).


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RE: German Navy - 1/3/2022 8:09:14 PM   
DrZom

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SittingDuck

The Unit Build Limit doesn't have German light cruisers populated (any put in for potential build). This is why.

The Unit Build Limit is there to obviously prevent things such as Germany building 20 tank armies and so on. And it is roughly setup to parallel what was produced or appeared in the war (although I don't know how accurately). But the downside is that it doesn't allow for variation in production strategy (if a unit type isn't populated in the editor for the nation in question).




Except you can build large "ahistorical" tank armies by removing the soft build limits. You will forgive me if I reject your reasoning here.

In my current game England has surrendered. While I have captured the Panama Canal I am paranoid about the US Pacific Fleet, with which I cannot contend. I put Japan on AI from the beginning of the game and it is losing. American troops have landed. As soon as Japan surrenders I expect a visit from many carriers and battleships. So yes, I would like some flexibility. Meanwhile, Russia's final capital is lightly defended and almost surrounded. It will fall soon, but I will need time to build up the strength of my veteran units, transfer them to Atlantic ports, and commence my assault on America. This is shaping up to be a race. Fun.

Light cruisers could have been a help. I would have liked to build some. I can think of no good reason why you or I should not be able to build some.

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Post #: 7
RE: German Navy - 1/4/2022 1:28:37 AM   
SittingDuck

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline 		Well, I was talking about it from the standpoint of not using SOFT build limits, Z. So in that case, the reasoning stands. Further, without them in the editor to be built, regardless of hard or soft build limits, they cannot be built. (As I understand it, regular build limits cap the unit type numbers as they are in the editor; soft build limits let you build beyond that but with a penalty for adding more units).

Not a matter of reason as to them being/not being built - they have to be added (as they have a big fat zero for limit), and then you can do as you wish. Put only one in there, use Soft Build Limits, and build to your heart's content.

< Message edited by SittingDuck -- 1/4/2022 1:30:22 AM >

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RE: German Navy - 1/4/2022 7:45:16 AM   
The Land

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DrZom

Except you can build large "ahistorical" tank armies by removing the soft build limits. You will forgive me if I reject your reasoning here.



If there is no Build Limit on a unit, then Soft Build Limits have no effect.

This may seem counterintuitive. But in the editor, the build limits can either be blank, or a number from 0 upwards. If it's blank then the unit does not appear in the nation's build dialogue whatsoever, and they are still unavailable to build even when Soft Build Limits are enabled.

If the limit has a number, then Soft Build Limits allow you to build more than the number (though unsure whether this is still the case if the number is 0).

Hope this helps unpick what is going on.

But as to the underlying point - yeah, the Germans should really have a couple of light cruisers in their potential force pool.

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Post #: 9
RE: German Navy - 1/4/2022 10:31:48 AM   
BillRunacre

 

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Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: offline 		If we were to give Germany a Build Limit of 1, then this would both enable one to be built and also for more if Soft Build Limits are enabled. I don't think there are any potential issues or drawbacks to doing this?

Any preferences on what names are added?

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Post #: 10
RE: German Navy - 1/4/2022 11:48:54 AM   
Platoonist


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From: Kila Hana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Any preferences on what names are added?


I'd vote for the CL Emden. She was the first large warship laid down for the German Navy after World War One and she sports a famous raider name.



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Post #: 11
RE: German Navy - 1/6/2022 1:12:40 AM   
OldCrowBalthazor


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Joined: 7/2/2020
From: Republic of Cascadia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

If we were to give Germany a Build Limit of 1, then this would both enable one to be built and also for more if Soft Build Limits are enabled. I don't think there are any potential issues or drawbacks to doing this?

Any preferences on what names are added?

How about a build limit of 2 for MP instead of 1? My opinion of course but if Germany wants to go and expand their navy for strategical reasons..Light Cruisers are a perfect fit. They are one of my favorite vessels in the SC games you have developed because of their versatility and cost.

Also..I see no drawbacks for MP...
Money is always an issue anyway but it would make sense (to me anyway) that if Germany wanted to go heavy with their navy..going forward with the carriers etc, that CLs would go into the planning for a proper screen. Also, as raiders.

I vote for Emden also as suggested by Platoonist.

< Message edited by OldCrowBalthazor -- 1/6/2022 1:21:09 AM >

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