Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

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ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

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ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.

Maybe you could see it but I could not. Go back and give examples of such things.

As far as your "non-white/non-European peoples" comment goes, it is difficult to tell where a person's ancestor's have come from based upon what they post here.

As far as you "crassness towards women" please give examples of that. The Graffin used to post but has not done so in a long time and I don't believe anyone was disrespectful to her on the forum.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5031816

I see that the link is to a repost of a picture that an individual posted previously. Why don't you find the original post of that picture, see who posted it, and what context. As you can see from my post, no one objected then. So why didn't you object then? You can also see that the person is posing for said picture so it was not done without her knowledge.

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

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ORIGINAL: tolsdorff

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ORIGINAL: littleike

After have seen a a thread as Things to ponder closed without a word of discussion from mister Edmon (never known before)
without no one has been offended and seen that in this forum pin ups are considered an offense to common sense of chasteness
and that someone can close what he wants whenever it wants, due to my B-17 collection of nose art that i want to be free to
collect and share i will no more post here until that thread will not be reopenede and pin ups posting would not be considered an illegal action.

Thanks to all i have shared my time from many years.

Best regards

Littleike

yeah, I agree. Respect is 1 thing, but good old sexual Censorship, for no reason whatsoever, is more than a turn in the wrong direction.
It happened in the past before. For instance during the Inquisition (!) in Mexico in the 1800's. Going back to those days just doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction at all. Feels more like 10 steps back.

Ever since Canoerebel was pestered away more than a year ago by some of the extremists here, (no one specifically comes to mind.) things have been going quietly downhill and there is apparently no stopping it.

CR, like all keyboard warriors, ran away in the end. Nobody pestered him away. He didn't want to be held to the same standards to which he insisted that others be held when it came to his arguments.

As for the actions of Matrix and the moderators, it's several steps forward that can't have come too soon. There's been an undercurrent of distasteful content and attitudes on wargaming forums for decades. I would be embarrassed for others to see that I was such an active member and poster on a forum that, for so long, tacitly condoned the kinds of distasteful posts (often sly, but everyone with eyeballs could see the winking) disparaging non-white/non-European peoples and crassness towards women, among other things.

The analogy to the entry room of a house/club is a good one.

Maybe you could see it but I could not. Go back and give examples of such things.

As far as your "non-white/non-European peoples" comment goes, it is difficult to tell where a person's ancestor's have come from based upon what they post here.

As far as you "crassness towards women" please give examples of that. The Graffin used to post but has not done so in a long time and I don't believe anyone was disrespectful to her on the forum.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=5031816

I see that the link is to a repost of a picture that an individual posted previously. Why don't you find the original post of that picture, see who posted it, and what context. As you can see from my post, no one objected then. So why didn't you object then? You can also see that the person is posing for said picture so it was not done without her knowledge.

What were the motivations behind you posting such a photo and accompanying commentary?

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?

To be frank, I didn't know the post existed until littleike started this thread. A cursory investigation of the thread prompted my response in post #4 of this thread.

Unlike some forumites, I don't have the luxury of sufficient time to read everything posted on the forum, but that's besides the point - the issue at hand isn't the speed with which I react to such posts, but the users themselves making that post.

Are you any more inclined to discuss your motivations in making the post in question, or can I expect another barrage of questions aimed to divert the discussion?

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

Hey guys,

I think Erik said what needed to be said, but I thought I would also add a few things here.

I am the community manager for the marketing branch of Slitherine. The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach and I usually focus my efforts on our steam communities, which are starkly more toxic and have far more rules broken than our regular forums do. This is why no-one got any warnings, despite the rules being broken. No-one is here to punish anyone for not being perfect and a lot gets overlooked as long as it doesn't happen to regularly.

I am also a progamer, with top 5 tournament finishes over a wide range of our games and I have my own youtube channel. So it is not that I don't understand gaming culture, I actually got my degree in it.

The above said, we have recently made policy changes, which I absolutely agree with, that objectification/sexualization of women would not be tolerated in our communities. Posting such things forces my hand into action, even in areas where I would normally just lurk quietly.


As I said before, I don't want to be the bad guy, but the rules on this are quite clear and I will be enforcing them. My wife is a gamer, too (mostly factorio and RPG's, but also some lite turn based stuff like the games we sell) and I can't help but think that constantly seeing this kind of stuff must be very draining, even if it's been "normal" for a long time.

Regards,
Edmon

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?

To be frank, I didn't know the post existed until littleike started this thread. A cursory investigation of the thread prompted my response in post #4 of this thread.

Unlike some forumites, I don't have the luxury of sufficient time to read everything posted on the forum, but that's besides the point - the issue at hand isn't the speed with which I react to such posts, but the users themselves making that post.

Are you any more inclined to discuss your motivations in making the post in question, or can I expect another barrage of questions aimed to divert the discussion?

So, that post existed for so long and it did not bother you but now it does simply because you went looking for something to find objectionable. How come that is the only post that you mentioned? Could you not find any others? You always want other people to fully explain their actions and post links but you do not do so. Is that beneath you to do so? Why are you asking about my motivations about a post from so many days ago? Have you not yet found any other posts objectionable?

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

Development Diary #5 - Q&A Time

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ORIGINAL: Kull

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach

Your actions say otherwise. You shut down a 187 page thread with literally no warning. Coming in days later and acting collegial doesn't give you a pass on that. It may come as quite a surprise to you, but many - probably most - of those in this forum had no idea that Matrix had adopted this "decency" policy. Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, you should have tried informing us of that HERE - in OUR forum.

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ORIGINAL: DD696

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

Hey guys,

I think Erik said what needed to be said, but I thought I would also add a few things here.

I am the community manager for the marketing branch of Slitherine. The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach and I usually focus my efforts on our steam communities, which are starkly more toxic and have far more rules broken than our regular forums do. This is why no-one got any warnings, despite the rules being broken. No-one is here to punish anyone for not being perfect and a lot gets overlooked as long as it doesn't happen to regularly.

I am also a progamer, with top 5 tournament finishes over a wide range of our games and I have my own youtube channel. So it is not that I don't understand gaming culture, I actually got my degree in it.

The above said, we have recently made policy changes, which I absolutely agree with, that objectification/sexualization of women would not be tolerated in our communities. Posting such things forces my hand into action, even in areas where I would normally just lurk quietly.


As I said before, I don't want to be the bad guy, but the rules on this are quite clear and I will be enforcing them. My wife is a gamer, too (mostly factorio and RPG's, but also some lite turn based stuff like the games we sell) and I can't help but think that constantly seeing this kind of stuff must be very draining, even if it's been "normal" for a long time.

Regards,
Edmon

You may want to lock your own threads regarding Master of Magic with images of a topless woman with exposed nipples and very scantily clad women designed to entice youngsters into buying this game Slitherine will be releasing.

In the press releases section of the forum, check out the Dev Diaries for Masters of Magic since September.

It is very much a case of "Do what I say, not as I do" and they do very much present women in the manner in which you complain about here.

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ORIGINAL: DD696

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

Hey guys,

I think Erik said what needed to be said, but I thought I would also add a few things here.

I am the community manager for the marketing branch of Slitherine. The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach and I usually focus my efforts on our steam communities, which are starkly more toxic and have far more rules broken than our regular forums do. This is why no-one got any warnings, despite the rules being broken. No-one is here to punish anyone for not being perfect and a lot gets overlooked as long as it doesn't happen to regularly.

I am also a progamer, with top 5 tournament finishes over a wide range of our games and I have my own youtube channel. So it is not that I don't understand gaming culture, I actually got my degree in it.

The above said, we have recently made policy changes, which I absolutely agree with, that objectification/sexualization of women would not be tolerated in our communities. Posting such things forces my hand into action, even in areas where I would normally just lurk quietly.


As I said before, I don't want to be the bad guy, but the rules on this are quite clear and I will be enforcing them. My wife is a gamer, too (mostly factorio and RPG's, but also some lite turn based stuff like the games we sell) and I can't help but think that constantly seeing this kind of stuff must be very draining, even if it's been "normal" for a long time.

Regards,
Edmon

You may want to lock your own threads regarding Master of Magic with images of a topless woman with exposed nipples and very scantily clad women designed to entice youngsters into buying this game Slitherine will be releasing.

In the press releases section of the forum, check out the Dev Diaries for Masters of Magic since September.

It is very much a case of "Do what I say, not as I do" and they do very much present women in the manner in which you complain about here.

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ORIGINAL: Kull

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach

Your actions say otherwise. You shut down a 187 page thread with literally no warning. Coming in days later and acting collegial doesn't give you a pass on that. It may come as quite a surprise to you, but many - probably most - of those in this forum had no idea that Matrix had adopted this "decency" policy. Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, you should have tried informing us of that HERE - in OUR forum.

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

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ORIGINAL: mind_messing

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ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

If you think that it is objectionable now, why did you not find it objectionable then? Why not bring it up then? Why wait so long afterwards and then ask me my motivations about my posting that photo and accompanying commentary? Was that post and commentary eating at your soul this entire time?

To be frank, I didn't know the post existed until littleike started this thread. A cursory investigation of the thread prompted my response in post #4 of this thread.

Unlike some forumites, I don't have the luxury of sufficient time to read everything posted on the forum, but that's besides the point - the issue at hand isn't the speed with which I react to such posts, but the users themselves making that post.

Are you any more inclined to discuss your motivations in making the post in question, or can I expect another barrage of questions aimed to divert the discussion?

So, that post existed for so long and it did not bother you but now it does simply because you went looking for something to find objectionable. How come that is the only post that you mentioned? Could you not find any others? You always want other people to fully explain their actions and post links but you do not do so. Is that beneath you to do so? Why are you asking about my motivations about a post from so many days ago? Have you not yet found any other posts objectionable?

In post #24 of this thread, you asked for examples of crassness towards women. I was able to immediately provide an example of that.

Your current attempt to weasel the discussion away from what you actually posted to the why it's currently under focus is fooling nobody.

I'm not going to indulge in a full audit of your objectionable activities as:

1) It's not my job, frankly

2) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're already well known to the admin staff for posting wider objectionable (and in some jurisdictions - illegal) content. Perhaps a better request would be to ask for a search of posts that are not objectionable?

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ORIGINAL: Kull

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.

Yeah, says the guy who posted a risque picture of a game character one month AFTER this new policy. Nice try, but from where I sit, it looks a lot like "pinups and profits for we, shut up and obey for thee"

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ORIGINAL: Kull

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.

Yeah, says the guy who posted a risque picture of a game character one month AFTER this new policy. Nice try, but from where I sit, it looks a lot like "pinups and profits for we, shut up and obey for thee"

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ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Guess I have to retire my sigpic?

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

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ORIGINAL: DD696

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

Hey guys,

I think Erik said what needed to be said, but I thought I would also add a few things here.

I am the community manager for the marketing branch of Slitherine. The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach and I usually focus my efforts on our steam communities, which are starkly more toxic and have far more rules broken than our regular forums do. This is why no-one got any warnings, despite the rules being broken. No-one is here to punish anyone for not being perfect and a lot gets overlooked as long as it doesn't happen to regularly.

I am also a progamer, with top 5 tournament finishes over a wide range of our games and I have my own youtube channel. So it is not that I don't understand gaming culture, I actually got my degree in it.

The above said, we have recently made policy changes, which I absolutely agree with, that objectification/sexualization of women would not be tolerated in our communities. Posting such things forces my hand into action, even in areas where I would normally just lurk quietly.


As I said before, I don't want to be the bad guy, but the rules on this are quite clear and I will be enforcing them. My wife is a gamer, too (mostly factorio and RPG's, but also some lite turn based stuff like the games we sell) and I can't help but think that constantly seeing this kind of stuff must be very draining, even if it's been "normal" for a long time.

Regards,
Edmon

You may want to lock your own threads regarding Master of Magic with images of a topless woman with exposed nipples and very scantily clad women designed to entice youngsters into buying this game Slitherine will be releasing.

In the press releases section of the forum, check out the Dev Diaries for Masters of Magic since September.

It is very much a case of "Do what I say, not as I do" and they do very much present women in the manner in which you complain about here.

The picture you are referring to is of the old version of Master of Magic, which had nothing to do with Slitherine. We have in fact, drawn a lot of fire from the older generation of MoM players because in the new version of the game, the character you are referring to is vastly more modestly dressed and no longer has exposed nipples or anything else. So we have, in many peoples opinion's "censored" the original game.

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ORIGINAL: Kull

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

The reason I am generally quiet on these forums is because I favour a soft-touch approach

Your actions say otherwise. You shut down a 187 page thread with literally no warning. Coming in days later and acting collegial doesn't give you a pass on that. It may come as quite a surprise to you, but many - probably most - of those in this forum had no idea that Matrix had adopted this "decency" policy. Here's a thought. Maybe, just maybe, you should have tried informing us of that HERE - in OUR forum.

I have been here for over a year now and there was a global announcement (visible from any place in the forum) about the changes in the rules. The change came months ago and the "Australian Beauties" thread was locked as a first step in showing that we were serious about our policies.

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.



I realize this policy will be unpopular for those that see this as some form of censorship, but I believe it is a step in the right direction and honestly, I would hope that on thinking about it, most would agree.

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

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ORIGINAL: Kull

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.

Yeah, says the guy who posted a risque picture of a game character one month AFTER this new policy. Nice try, but from where I sit, it looks a lot like "pinups and profits for we, shut up and obey for thee"

I presume you are referring to master of magic, where we have the original artwork and the new artwork side by side. Showing where we have added clothing to and made less sexualized the female main characters while trying to preserve their identity?

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ORIGINAL: DD696
....

My statement stands very upright. You can post images/pictures of this type but the rabble of the forums cannot.
You can use these images in an attempt to generate interest and sales of an upcoming game, but if I posted them I would be vilified in today's screwed up world.

Frankly, I do not care for, and take offense, at you saying that the lives of my father and all who came before should be put on the crap heap because they do not live up to these new glorified standards.

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ORIGINAL: Kull

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

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ORIGINAL: Kull

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ORIGINAL: Edmon

So we absolutely have notified everyone, but I would ask, is it really necessary to make it clear that pictures of women pointing their arses at the viewer is not acceptable on a forum about video games?

I am all for admiring the attitudes towards courage and sacrifice made in WWII, but that era's attitudes towards women are not, and frankly never were, acceptable.

Yeah, says the guy who posted a risque picture of a game character one month AFTER this new policy. Nice try, but from where I sit, it looks a lot like "pinups and profits for we, shut up and obey for thee"

I presume you are referring to master of magic, where we have the original artwork and the new artwork side by side. Showing where we have added clothing to and made less sexualized the female main characters while trying to preserve their identity?

Yep that's the game, but I'm referring to one thread in particular. Dev Diary #5 which appeared one month AFTER the new policy. Take a good look at the image on top of your post (which is helpfully viewable in post #40 above). It sure looks like a new load screen to me. And NOWHERE in your post is there a "before and after" discussion on that image. So even if it *was* something from the old game (which I doubt), you left a very misleading impression that it would be part of the new one. Which certainly won't hamper sales, will it?

Oh, and it would be nice if you could please answer my earlier question about whether Matrix plans to continue profiting from a game (Distant Worlds Universe) which features an entire race of scantily clad females. Thanks.

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ORIGINAL: DD696

Love your reply. Thank you.

I feel like going out and tearing down a statue of George Washington!!!

Edit: How could I have been so wrong in thinking that there were attractive women in this world. We must ban all images of women except for those we make money off of.

If I did that, would it make me a pimp?