defensive GS issue

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East 2 >> Tech Support >> defensive GS issue

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defensive GS issue - 1/21/2022 2:19:23 PM

jubjub

Posts: 493
Joined: 5/2/2021
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Hi, I'm back... I found that my defensive GS isn't doing anything. See the attached example. 160 bombers fly and don't disrupt a single unit. 70 of these are dedicated CAS bombers as well. GS should be even more effective on defense, but it doesn't seem to be performing right.

This is from my server game vs Gam3r. There are other examples you can find by clicking around, but this was the best one since the Luftwaffe enjoyed complete supremacy in this engagement.

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Post #: 1

RE: defensive GS issue - 1/21/2022 3:48:27 PM

Rosencrantus

Posts: 318
Joined: 1/9/2021
From: Canada
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I've mentioned this before here https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5126588 and when I looked at the combat log during some combats on the enemy turn, your bombers just never attempt to bomb the enemy.

(in reply to jubjub)

Post #: 2

RE: defensive GS issue - 1/21/2022 7:47:43 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

I was able to download the Soviet save and repeat the battle you showed. We'll look into it.

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RE: defensive GS issue - 1/21/2022 11:43:26 PM

xhoel

Posts: 3219
Joined: 6/24/2017
From: Germany
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I am seeing the same thing. Defensive GS is flying in substantial numbers and not doing anything.

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(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 4

RE: defensive GS issue - 1/22/2022 12:24:09 AM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
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I see it. Is this always the case for defensive CAP? Unfortunately Gary's first time through the debugger came up with some results (although low). When he ran it outside the debugger, he had 0 as did I. So this may not be an easy thing to track down. The code is very old and very messy so very hard to debug. He is going to keep looking to see if he can repeat it and find a reason for 0. If he can't, then it will have to go to Pavel for him to see if he can find a problem (he's our go to debugger on things that aren't readily repeatable or understandable). If the conclusion is the code needs to be rewritten, then that's a big job that will require balancing. I really am curious if this is always the case that defensive GS is much weaker than offensive side GS. What experience have players had?

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to xhoel)

Post #: 5

RE: defensive GS issue - 1/22/2022 12:39:51 AM

Rosencrantus

Posts: 318
Joined: 1/9/2021
From: Canada
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From my experience out of the many combats in my server StB game against tyronec, GS defensively gets 0s about 90% of the time. When they do get disruptions, the amount is far less than it would have been offensively for the number of units in the battle.

< Message edited by Rosencrantus -- 1/22/2022 4:29:38 AM >

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Post #: 6

RE: defensive GS issue - 1/22/2022 3:34:23 AM

jubjub

Posts: 493
Joined: 5/2/2021
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I've noticed that IL-2's do a lot of damage on defense. On the other hand, German CAS doesn't do much if at all.

I don't have much experience running German CAS on defense very much though. Since I can't control the losses, I usually don't leave it on, and when I do leave it on, most of my experience has been that they just don't fly.

(in reply to Rosencrantus)

Post #: 7

RE: defensive GS issue - 1/22/2022 7:01:45 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

Thanks to the save, Gary found the smoking gun on this bug. It does appear to be just defensive GS, and there's some variability to it because it depends on what unit is targeted first by the air strike. This bug appears to have been created in 1.02.13 when some work other work on the air game was being done. I can't say how soon a fix for this will go out. We should have a test version in the next couple of days and will try to get a beta out as soon after that as we can.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
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Post #: 8

RE: defensive GS issue - 1/23/2022 12:30:04 AM

Rosencrantus

Posts: 318
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From: Canada
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I'm confused, in my thread where I brought up defensive GS not working properly a week ago, were you not able to get a save? That game was a server StB game. It's quite frustrating bringing up an issue with the game to get ignored and then a week later when its brought up in another thread it gets looked at, especially since we were both on server games. The same thing happened when I brought up GS escorts not working properly.

< Message edited by Rosencrantus -- 1/23/2022 12:36:31 AM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 9

RE: defensive GS issue - 1/23/2022 3:52:54 AM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

I may have missed your post. If I did, I�m sorry: I try to look at all posts in the tech area within a day or two, but I do miss some in which case a bump is appropriate. If it�s a server game than I may not be able to get the right save to repeat the bug, depending on when the players made their saves. I try to post a note if I need a save or am unable to reproduce the issue so players can look for a similar save.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Rosencrantus)

Post #: 10

RE: defensive GS issue - 1/23/2022 5:03:41 AM

Rosencrantus

Posts: 318
Joined: 1/9/2021
From: Canada
Status: offline

Now I just feel bad for getting frustrated, my apologies. I'm just trying my best to get this game into a better state as I spend so much time in it. Thanks for all the work you and the team put in to making this game better each patch.

< Message edited by Rosencrantus -- 1/23/2022 5:05:04 AM >

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Post #: 11

RE: defensive GS issue - 1/23/2022 3:45:17 PM

baloo7777

Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline

+1

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Post #: 12

RE: defensive GS issue - 1/24/2022 4:24:13 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
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No worries, appreciate the apology, we often feel frustrated too. This is the most complex game program we've ever worked on, and sometimes we feel like just breathing on the code can cause a new bug to appear. As long as we can get saves we can strive to make improvements. We appreciate all the reports as sometimes a report without a save will prompt another player to get us a save. That's the one downside of MP versus PBEM. With PBEM the players can keep all their saves in case something comes up, while with MP we only have access to the last 3 saves (at most, sometimes only 2 for some unknown reason).

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Rosencrantus)

Post #: 13