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Next Patch - 1/27/2022 6:23:59 PM   
AlvaroSousa


Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline 		FYI working on all the recommendations and bug fixes for the next 1-4 days to release a new full patch for both games.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3
Post #: 1
RE: Next Patch - 1/27/2022 8:03:05 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		1) Norway falls turn 3 with a division. Need a slightly stronger unit IF this is not desired. Costs the UK 20MM which as the Axis is great. AS the Allies not so great.
2) French fleet should have to remain in the Mediterranean and be part of the Italian may join the Axis triggers. Having a free fleet that can suicide and return is a problem.
3) I feel the UK should have to garrison their island and Africa or there be some penalty. It is to easy for an All in UK to beat the Germans. I have done it and every time I have tried I have beaten the Germans. Okay there may be 1 or 2 players that can get through but that means I have no opponents. A waste. I am sure someone will say well you can't beat me because I will invade the UK while all your units are in France. That is because you are building LC instead of troops. And if you do that you won't win in France...knowing is half the battle...(GI Joe). IF you know someone is all in you play for the short game rather than the long.
4) The first Russian armor move increase needs to be moved to 41...2 years of armored infantry is wrong and I like playing the Axis better but the Russian just plan suck. NOTHING should have been changed so that Germany could be allowed to successfully invade Russia in 1942. Sorry as Germany you should NOT be able to successfully invade in 1942...Russian corps should all have converted to armies by then. Perhaps add this in? They start converting per-war if no war until 42.
5) Possible rail repair to 1, still don't have supply issues...more Russian reserves, manpower issues mean they can't even build...move some Russian manpower centers east so they are not down to 25 manpower by end of 41...Possible higher experience on the Russian speed bump corps...all thoughts to make them better.
6) Cut back on the German manpower boosts...maybe make it more based upon how well they are doing rather than automatically getting 120 manpower every 6 months for 2 years. Perhaps change to 60 to temper their repairs.
7) I like the air changes but there are some issues. I can now take Gibraltar if there is a full corp there in garrison mode just bombing the unit into the stone age. That is an issue. Though with 122 AA guns I won't be able too.

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)
Post #: 2
RE: Next Patch - 1/27/2022 8:22:10 PM   
boldairade

 

Posts: 722
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Thank you Alvaro. You’re the man!

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 3
RE: Next Patch - 1/27/2022 8:46:28 PM   
redrum68

 

Posts: 1202
Joined: 11/26/2017
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

1) Norway falls turn 3 with a division. Need a slightly stronger unit IF this is not desired. Costs the UK 20MM which as the Axis is great. AS the Allies not so great.
2) French fleet should have to remain in the Mediterranean and be part of the Italian may join the Axis triggers. Having a free fleet that can suicide and return is a problem.
3) I feel the UK should have to garrison their island and Africa or there be some penalty. It is to easy for an All in UK to beat the Germans. I have done it and every time I have tried I have beaten the Germans. Okay there may be 1 or 2 players that can get through but that means I have no opponents. A waste. I am sure someone will say well you can't beat me because I will invade the UK while all your units are in France. That is because you are building LC instead of troops. And if you do that you won't win in France...knowing is half the battle...(GI Joe). IF you know someone is all in you play for the short game rather than the long.
4) The first Russian armor move increase needs to be moved to 41...2 years of armored infantry is wrong and I like playing the Axis better but the Russian just plan suck. NOTHING should have been changed so that Germany could be allowed to successfully invade Russia in 1942. Sorry as Germany you should NOT be able to successfully invade in 1942...Russian corps should all have converted to armies by then. Perhaps add this in? They start converting per-war if no war until 42.
5) Possible rail repair to 1, still don't have supply issues...more Russian reserves, manpower issues mean they can't even build...move some Russian manpower centers east so they are not down to 25 manpower by end of 41...Possible higher experience on the Russian speed bump corps...all thoughts to make them better.
6) Cut back on the German manpower boosts...maybe make it more based upon how well they are doing rather than automatically getting 120 manpower every 6 months for 2 years. Perhaps change to 60 to temper their repairs.
7) I like the air changes but there are some issues. I can now take Gibraltar if there is a full corp there in garrison mode just bombing the unit into the stone age. That is an issue. Though with 122 AA guns I won't be able too.


+1. The only other 2 things I would add are:
8. Its too easy to supply a huge army in Libya/Syria for the Axis to crush Egypt as basic supply is enough to supply infinite units and just rotate them
9. Surface ship convoy raiding is too strong and/or its too hard to engage them. The Germans shouldn't be sending their whole fleet to raid the convoy lanes.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 4
RE: Next Patch - 1/27/2022 9:26:39 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		I'm like a broken record but the Soviets need more units, more production, more manpower.

Rail repair at 2 is fine.

(in reply to redrum68)
Post #: 5
RE: Next Patch - 1/27/2022 9:49:56 PM   
Remington700

 

Posts: 1057
Joined: 5/16/2021
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

1) Norway falls turn 3 with a division.



Without fail. I was able to commit to crushing Poland, capture Denmark (occupy Copenhagen) on turn two and then capture Norway on turn 3. It is possible if you want to do so.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 6
RE: Next Patch - 1/27/2022 10:29:51 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		Mobilize Norway if Denmark is attacked. Fairly historically accurate.

(in reply to Remington700)
Post #: 7
RE: Next Patch - 1/27/2022 10:31:32 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		Also, slow moving Soviet armor isn't fun. No matter how realistic or appropriate.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 8
RE: Next Patch - 1/27/2022 10:43:30 PM   
Lascar


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline 		If France can have a few partisan units spawning, considering they never had large scale partisan formations;

then Yugoslavia, which had hundreds of thousands of partisans in field armies by 1944, at the very least should be able to spawn the number of units that France can.

As it stands now the Axis don't have to garrison Yugoslavia with even one division, let alone the 25 divisions they had to commit in 1943-44.

Yugoslavia is a free no cost way to garner 100s of PPs without a downside.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 9
RE: Next Patch - 1/27/2022 11:07:49 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Mobilize Norway if Denmark is attacked. Fairly historically accurate.


This would work sort of...

Been thinking about it. The main issue is that the Germans can't land paratroopers before the UK move in 5 corps...and then Norway will never fall and the Germans lose all the PP in the winter.

Needs to be a better way.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 10
RE: Next Patch - 1/27/2022 11:10:44 PM   
Lascar


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Mobilize Norway if Denmark is attacked. Fairly historically accurate.


This would work sort of...

Been thinking about it. The main issue is that the Germans can't land paratroopers before the UK move in 5 corps...and then Norway will never fall and the Germans lose all the PP in the winter.

Needs to be a better way.

Not likely that the UK has 5 Corps to spare in 1940 to do that.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 11
RE: Next Patch - 1/27/2022 11:22:26 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand


quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

Mobilize Norway if Denmark is attacked. Fairly historically accurate.


This would work sort of...

Been thinking about it. The main issue is that the Germans can't land paratroopers before the UK move in 5 corps...and then Norway will never fall and the Germans lose all the PP in the winter.

Needs to be a better way.


The better way is to take Norway in 1940. If the UK wants 5 corps in Norway instead of France that's their choice.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 12
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 12:35:43 AM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		You can't take it in 40 without more LC...and again you can't land paratroopers just like they did in the attack unless you own Denmark...As a UK player you just take one port and and all PP are stopped for the winter months.
One corp to stop 300 PP per year? Heck yes. Pays for its self in no time.
Honestly I would never take Norway as the Axis if it was not so easy to prevent the Ore from Sweden.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 13
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 1:08:30 AM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		But the Allies did fight in Norway historically?

I don't see the problem, attack Norway in spring 40, no iron ore losses are possible until the winter 40/41. And yes you may have to fight some British or even French forces.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 14
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 1:23:03 AM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		They invaded in Narvik...and lost because they sent a weak division.

The UK was unwilling to send units to Norway.
In Warplan there is no reason not to send them there.

Make a house rule to only attack Norway when you attack Denmark. And lets see how that goes.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 15
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 1:48:35 AM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		I'm sorry but you need to read up on the Norwegian campaign. I'm no historian nor expert, but I do know the Norwegian campaign well. The UK should be free to send units if it wants.

If you really want to make it historical, Norway should never surrender, and Germany should have to take each and every port.

< Message edited by sveint -- 1/28/2022 1:50:08 AM >

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 16
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 12:39:30 PM   
CHINCHIN

 

Posts: 416
Joined: 9/2/2012
Status: offline 		Denmark surrendered in a day, and Norway was simultaneously invaded in all its important ports, by small German units transported in warships. Norway was not mobilized and her army was very small and weak.

This is very difficult to simulate in WP, in SC Denmark and Norway are conquered automatically by an event.

_____________________________

My native language is Spanish, and no English language mastery, sorry.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 17
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 12:52:14 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		Another thought regarding Russia...

How about putting them a bit more inline with the Allies.

Divisions are 12
Small Corps are 24
Large Corps are 36
Armies are 20 (Pre-war corps)
Half Armies are 10 (Pre-war corps)

They auto convert to "Small Corps"...a slight bonus which to be honest they need.

This allows them to build smaller units as well as spread out their lines more.

Sadly I could not find a way to change the names to match armies and such without changing everyone.


Also not sure I mentioned this..


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make a way to upgrade, reinforce, both or neither. This is a KILLER to the Russians and Germans late (sometimes early) and Allies always when manpower is low.
Sometimes they have tons of PP but no manpower...so they want to upgrade to gain strength rather than reinforce.
And sometimes they have little PP and lost of MP so want to reinforce rather than upgrade.


This is extremely frustrating when trying to manage the army.

Might not be possible but...never know till you ask.

(in reply to CHINCHIN)
Post #: 18
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 1:27:58 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		HUGE pet peeve...

1939 Advancements should do SOMETHING. Hated that they were just a blank slate.

Suggestions...

Assault +1 Firearm, -1 Gun or Defense
Anti-tank -1 Firearm, +1 Defense or Gun
Breakthrough +1 Movement, -1 Defense
Heavy Armor -1 Movement, +1 Defense

Just a thought...

Yes something for the rest but this was off the top of my head.




(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 19
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 4:08:23 PM   
Nikel

 

Posts: 355
Joined: 3/24/2009
Status: offline 		After 15 patches and years of release still all of this discussion on how to improve and balance the game.

Seems amazing to me how difficult is to create a wargame, or anything in fact.


Kudos to AS!


For those interested, some relevant remarks on the Norway campaign by Kevin Bolan, in the file Invasion_Norway_Scenarios_and_Historical_Commentary_V1_1.pdf

https://vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Invasion:_Norway

< Message edited by Nikel -- 1/28/2022 4:09:37 PM >

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 20
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 4:18:36 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		Don't you think also that Persia is overpowered?

This is a joke for my friend aoffen.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to Nikel)
Post #: 21
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 4:32:57 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		Seriously the Russian infantry army is the less rated unit of the whole game.
Defense of 4, I say 4 whereas all other units have a defense of 5.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 1/28/2022 4:34:45 PM >

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 22
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 4:37:52 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		AND they have 1 less Artillery than all others when infact they should probably have one more.
The Russians had insane amounts of artillery.

So their infantry has 1 less defense and 1 less artillery but is 6 MP bigger.

Not a fair trade when they end up having manpower issues very quickly.

< Message edited by stjeand -- 1/28/2022 4:39:59 PM >

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 23
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 4:39:30 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		Few suggestions I would like to make:




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 24
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 4:40:25 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		And this, so I don't touch yet to Mech/Armor mobility nor I touch the PP of USSR:




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by ncc1701e -- 1/28/2022 4:41:52 PM >

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 25
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 4:44:47 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

AND they have 1 less Artillery than all others when infact they should probably have one more.
The Russians had insane amounts of artillery.

So their infantry has 1 less defense and 1 less artillery but is 6 MP bigger.

Not a fair trade when they end up having manpower issues very quickly.


Yes thus my above changes to align progressively the Russian infantry army to German infantry corps.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 26
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 4:47:02 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		Not sure I want them using oil and tanks in their infantry...
Rather move the armor/mech movement handicap from 42 to 41 at least for the 7 movement piece.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 27
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 4:48:00 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline 		Now that I have entered in the editor, this is feasible by events even if I would prefer that the stock game is solved. I have not really the intention to do a separate mod.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to ncc1701e)
Post #: 28
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 4:51:50 PM   
stjeand


Posts: 1508
Joined: 1/10/2021
From: Aurora, NC
Status: offline 		For me the shock armies should appear with better and better experience...say 30 for the 1st...31 for the second and so on.

Not a big change.

But I am starting to like

Large Army 36, Small Army 24 and Division 12...so they can actually spread out more.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 29
RE: Next Patch - 1/28/2022 4:56:54 PM   
ncc1701e


Posts: 7380
Joined: 10/29/2013
From: Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stjeand

Not sure I want them using oil and tanks in their infantry...
Rather move the armor/mech movement handicap from 42 to 41 at least for the 7 movement piece.


Few comments:
1. I have put the five Shock Armies at 25% strength so that they could be used as reserve only in 1942. And so that they could take all the based land experience of the moment as reinforcements.

2. I have added oil use to Russian armies to limit all their forces. Historically, don't forget that Russians have planned several operations and that they have done stockpiles for them. I like the idea to limit Russian operations by oil so that they don't advance continuously in 1943, 1944 and 1945. I hope this will be give Germans time to stabilize.

That's just ideas so far, nothing more. I am doing this for my own so far in addition of the enhanced map.

_____________________________

Chancellor Gorkon to Captain James T. Kirk:
You don't trust me, do you? I don't blame you. If there is to be a brave new world, our generation is going to have the hardest time living in it.

(in reply to stjeand)
Post #: 30
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