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Best way of directly surface attacking a fleet?

 
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Best way of directly surface attacking a fleet? - 1/29/2022 3:49:42 PM   
Sarganto


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So I have been facing some issues attacking with surface attack fleets. I would consider them "straightforward" in the sense that I have lots of naval search over the other fleet going on, so I should know fairly well where they are and where they are going.

But even if I have my fleet only a few hexes out, I feel like there isn't a way of really chasing them down until they are sunk. If I set a move order on their last known hex, my fleet will just go there and then turn around.

If I "guess" where they are going and shoot beyond their known position, I might get a night battle or maybe one surface battle and then they go on their way and my fleet goes back to their route.

Is there a good of way of telling my fleet "ATTACK THIS FLEET! And do NOT let them get away." that I am missing?

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RE: Best way of directly surface attacking a fleet? - 1/29/2022 8:52:10 PM   
ishtarin

 

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Patrol order where you expect them to be using only one movement phase with maximum engagement distance. If you really want it dead you could set the TF to max speed so the first phase can move the full 8 hexes (surface combat TFs are usually 8/4) and that way you could overshoot where the enemy would be.

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RE: Best way of directly surface attacking a fleet? - 1/30/2022 1:46:24 AM   
Sarganto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ishtarin

Patrol order where you expect them to be using only one movement phase with maximum engagement distance. If you really want it dead you could set the TF to max speed so the first phase can move the full 8 hexes (surface combat TFs are usually 8/4) and that way you could overshoot where the enemy would be.


I tried that for my last engagement, and just got a night engagement and that was it. Of course nobody hits jack at night, so I would have loved a day engagement afterwards, but my guys just kept trucking into a different direction.

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RE: Best way of directly surface attacking a fleet? - 1/30/2022 4:00:06 AM   
pontiouspilot


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If you want to aggressively pursue and are close make sure you set your reaction switches for task force. This can be quite effective especially if you have an aggressive TF commander. On the other hand I have also seen TFs foolishly react into a disaster!

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RE: Best way of directly surface attacking a fleet? - 1/30/2022 4:23:38 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

If you want to aggressively pursue and are close make sure you set your reaction switches for task force. This can be quite effective especially if you have an aggressive TF commander. On the other hand I have also seen TFs foolishly react into a disaster!

1. Reaction does not work for "remain on station" orders, so set a patrol zone as close as you can guess to the enemy's movement end point next turn.
2. You need good detection on the enemy TF before you can react. Use all means - LBA searches, FP search, sub sightings, bomber attacks, even sacrificial ships if necessary (e.g. an SC picket). Search both night and day phases.
3. Set your TF reaction to at least the distance it can travel in one 12 hour phase at normal speed.
4. Ensure your TF has full ammo and lots of fuel.
5. Have a TF commander with lots of Leadership and Aggression points.
6. Have ship captains with high Naval skill and Aggression appropriate for the type of ship (BBs should not get too frisky about closing with torpedo equipped DDs).

Even with all the above, some enemy TFs will be hard to nail. E.G., carrier TFs are hard coded to avoid surface combat so you won't get a long engagement with them. Weather can also play a part in letting enemy ships slip away just when you were getting the range on them. IRL, complete obliteration of an enemy TF was rare.

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RE: Best way of directly surface attacking a fleet? - 1/30/2022 5:39:25 AM   
Ian R

 

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One problem you are having is that you only see the enemy SAG in terms of where it was yesterday, and a report about what direction it was heading, both of which could be wrong anyway. You have to think two days ahead, not one.

If you set up a (Feb 1942) sandbox as follows, you will get a feel for something akin to "deflection shooting" when trying to catch a SAG at sea, and a couple of other things as well.

1- organise an IJN CA SAG ( 4 x CA, plus one of those scout cruisers with 16 TT and reloads, and a half dozen DD)to sail NW -> SE down the Java Sea. It's route will be within spitting (or at least moving) distance of both Batavia and Sorebaya. Make sure it is set to normal threat tolerance etc. Give it a not too aggressive leader (60's), and a react of about 3. For test A, all search float planes (both sides) are on day search, not night. Give it a home base to to the east of the Java sea - Makassar is good.

2. The only IJ "land based" air should be some searching Mavis or similar over the movement area. Likewise, the only allied land based air flying should be some Dorniers or PBYs on Java. A couple of groups worth each, enough to give search coverage - and make sure they are not set to a range >12.

3. Set up a couple of ABDA SAGS, with say Houston, Exeter, Perth and Boise in one with the Asiatic fleet 4 pipers, Marblehead and the NEI fleet in another. Maybe beef that one up with a couple of RN "D" class scout cruisers. Do not mix the shortlegged NEI DDs with the 4 pipers. Put the Houston SAG in Batavia, and the NEI SAG in Sorebaya for Test A. Also for Test A, give the Houston SAG a cautious leader. The aggressive Karel Doorman is always in charge of the NEI fleet.

4. For test A, order the two allied SAGs to sail three hexes out of port - they should be on max react at all times, all tests.

5. Everyone is always on mission speed, the exe takes them to flank speed as needed.

6. Run Test A a few times. You can never tell what will happen because its a Grigsby game and there are die rolls, but I'd be surprised if you get any surface actions. You can also try basing both allied SAGs in Sorebaya, and sending them out to different destinations.

7. Now for Test B, put very aggressive commanders in charge of both the Houston SAG and the IJN SAG, and wind their threat tolerance up to absolute. Change the allied move orders so they are heading over within a couple of hexes of Borneo before turning around. Run test B a few times. If they see each other,they might pick a fight. Remember though, 1 hex is 1600 square nm of ocean, and this early in the war, radar is rudimentary at best.

8. Now for Test C, go into all three SAGS and switch at least half or maybe all their searching floatplanes to night search covering 2-3 hexes all round. You can never be sure of the weather, the die rolls etc, but if everything lines up you will sometimes see carnage ensue. The first allied SAG that makes contact will probably suffer death by Long Lance, but the second one (particularly if it is the one with Boise in it) will plaster the IJN cruisers.

9. Test C part 2 involves putting a few subs from each side patrolling in the Java Sea, hoping some contacts increase the D/Ls of the SAGs.

10. For Test D, use the Test C set-up but we'll fast forward to late 1944-

(a) Swap out the IJ cruisers for the best upgrade versions that retain all their main gun turrets and torpedo fit, with the big late model DDs led by an Agano, and make sure some ships have surface search radar.

(b) Replace Houston & Exeter with a couple of Baltimores*, the light cruisers with Clevelands, and the USN DDs with Fletchers. They should come with far better day/night experienced crews.

[*or just replace all the cruisers with the two CBs - Alaska and Guam ]

(c) Replace the NEI navy with say 2 x RN/Cth 4 turret 8" cruisers, a couple of 4 turret Town class CLs, and some modern Tribal and "N" class DD's.

(d) Upgrade the aircraft in your patrol boat search groups to models with the latest available surface search radars.

(e) put some Gato/Balao class USN subs in the Java Sea patrolling (and using their surface search radars).

The increase in D/L level of the IJN SAG should in theory result in more surface interceptions.

I picked the Java Sea for this sandbox for historical reasons; it was the one place where there was a surface action (one of the three major ones) which did not occur in a base hex, or adjacent to one in a "choke" hex.


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RE: Best way of directly surface attacking a fleet? - 1/30/2022 12:24:18 PM   
btd64


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Don't forget to check ammo on your ships....GP

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RE: Best way of directly surface attacking a fleet? - 2/19/2022 4:07:25 AM   
Mock726

 

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Thanks for the interesting discussion and suggestions above. I can see several things I have been doing wrong.
Are there any tutorials that go into the nuts and bolts of when and how to use specific settings, like Routing Control and Threat Tolerance and all the others? Through trial and error I have managed to get by but I suspect those who have played a lot more could provide examples of what combinations to use when that would help new players immensely. Not all terminology is self explanatory.

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