Clarification of Oil Upkeep

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Clarification of Oil Upkeep

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Warplan Pacific >> Clarification of Oil Upkeep

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Clarification of Oil Upkeep - 2/14/2022 8:02:36 PM

canuckgamer

Posts: 737
Joined: 6/23/2004
Status: offline

Although my question would also apply to WP I am using WPP because the examples involve less units. The upkeep rule states:

Any land, air or naval unit in port not on a map level 9 supply consumes 1/3 of an oil to transport supplies to it by land.

Every port regardless of it's size has a map level of 9. Looking at the USA on turn 1 of the 1941 Campaign game they only have one unit, an HQ on hex 197,80 that is in a hex that is not supply level 9. However their oil upkeep number is 7. Looking at China, they have 19 units that are not in hexes that have a supply level of 9 but their upkeep is only 1.

Please clarify how upkeep works and whether the rule is correct as written. Thanks.

Post #: 1

RE: Clarification of Oil Upkeep - 2/14/2022 8:15:35 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

China has the no oil army modifier which means they don't pay oil because they literally had no trucks to move supplies. It is in the scenario notes

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to canuckgamer)

Post #: 2

RE: Clarification of Oil Upkeep - 2/14/2022 8:39:25 PM

canuckgamer

Posts: 737
Joined: 6/23/2004
Status: offline

Thank you for the very quick reply. What about the USA example?

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 3

RE: Clarification of Oil Upkeep - 2/14/2022 11:26:13 PM

eskuche

Posts: 1094
Joined: 3/27/2018
From: OH, USA
Status: offline

From some basic testing, it appears that perhaps CV/BB are taking 1 oil at port. I seem to remember 1/3 oil (1/3 flat or 1/3 of at-sea cost I forgot) per naval unit in an old old version.

(in reply to canuckgamer)

Post #: 4

RE: Clarification of Oil Upkeep - 2/15/2022 3:13:50 AM

GiveWarAchance

Posts: 389
Joined: 2/11/2015
Status: offline

There is a section in the manual that gives all the details about national traits.

(in reply to eskuche)

Post #: 5

RE: Clarification of Oil Upkeep - 2/15/2022 2:11:54 PM

AlvaroSousa

Posts: 9927
Joined: 7/29/2013
Status: offline

There are 44 units in the 1941 scenario with 3 on an island and 1 not on a rail line.

I'm not going to do the math but the 7 oil should be right.

Page 42 new manual talks about default land units and their differences per nation.

_____________________________

Creator Kraken Studios
- WarPlan
- WarPlan Pacific

Designer Strategic Command
- Brute Force (mod) SC2
- Assault on Communism SC2
- Assault on Democracy SC2
- Map Image Importer SC3

(in reply to GiveWarAchance)

Post #: 6

RE: Clarification of Oil Upkeep - 2/17/2022 9:20:03 PM

canuckgamer

Posts: 737
Joined: 6/23/2004
Status: offline

We have been unable to figure out why the Yanks are being charged 7 for upkeep at the beginning of the 1941 small fleet campaign game. We count 8 units that are not in hexes with a supply value of 9 or are in ports smaller than a 5. We are assuming that although every port regardless of it's size has a supply value of 9 that those in smaller ports are being counted as requiring oil upkeep. This contradicts the above rule I quoted, otherwise it would only be the HQ in hex 197,80 would require oil upkeep. A breakdown of the 8 units.

HQ in hex 197,80
2 units in the Philippines
1 unit in Midway
1 unit in Dutch Harbor
1 unit in Canton
1 unit in Pago Pago
1 unit in Noumea

(in reply to AlvaroSousa)

Post #: 7

RE: Clarification of Oil Upkeep - 2/17/2022 10:13:29 PM

ago1000

Posts: 856
Joined: 8/6/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: canuckgamer

We have been unable to figure out why the Yanks are being charged 7 for upkeep at the beginning of the 1941 small fleet campaign game. We count 8 units that are not in hexes with a supply value of 9 or are in ports smaller than a 5. We are assuming that although every port regardless of it's size has a supply value of 9 that those in smaller ports are being counted as requiring oil upkeep. This contradicts the above rule I quoted, otherwise it would only be the HQ in hex 197,80 would require oil upkeep. A breakdown of the 8 units.

HQ in hex 197,80
2 units in the Philippines
1 unit in Midway
1 unit in Dutch Harbor
1 unit in Canton
1 unit in Pago Pago
1 unit in Noumea

I have an upkeep of 8 in the scenario if I play hotseat and just move the turn forward. However, I believe the rule you quoted is not very clearly written as I remember fleets in port use up 1/3 oil per turn. So my calculations are different;

4 fleets Manila
14 fleets Pearl
2 fleets San Diego
2 Fleets San Fran
2 Fleets Seattle
1 HQ off rail

25 units /3 = 8 1/3 --> game rounds down to 8 oil per turn upkeep.

All ports are level 9 supply so any land or air unit on a port hex should not use 1/3 oil upkeep. I believe the manual is unclear as fleets in port use up 1/3 oil independent of size or supply. (ie. I believe it was to indicate that ships did use oil even when docked for readiness)

Note: If I remove all US land and air units in ports or on rail using the editor for this scenario, I still get 8 oil as upkeep leaving the fleets in port and the HQ off rail. So land (HQ exception) and air units at the beginning of the scenario are not impacting upkeep. So your statement regarding the HQ is correct, if you take the manual as written as I understand it, then the upkeep should be 0 since 1/3 would be rounded down and the HQ unit would be the only unit requiring oil maintenance. To add to the confusion, there are other statements in the manual that imply that naval units only use oil while at sea.

Here is a thread where we looked at this with earlier versions: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5025554&mpage=1&key=oil%2Cupkeep�

< Message edited by ago1000 -- 2/18/2022 12:40:55 AM >

_____________________________

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeBzqHBz73uSJssgEvP9Y-w?view_as=subscriber

(in reply to canuckgamer)

Post #: 8

RE: Clarification of Oil Upkeep - 2/18/2022 1:32:04 AM

canuckgamer

Posts: 737
Joined: 6/23/2004
Status: offline

ago1000, thank you for your very informative reply. I now understand. The rule should have been written something like land and air units in a hex less than 9 supply plus all naval groups in ports regardless of port size expend 1/3 for upkeep. I used a hotseat as well and I got the following:

Pearl Harbor - 14 naval groups
San Diego - 2
San Francisco - 2
Seattle - 1
Philippines -3

Total of 22 plus the one HQ = 23/3 = 7.67 round down to 7 although I would think it should be round up to 8.

I looked at the link you provided and didn't know about units less than 50% strength having the possiblity of not burning oil when moving or attacking.

(in reply to ago1000)

Post #: 9