Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >>

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

- 8/1/2001 5:52:00 AM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

My personal take is that MG's in a SP game work properly (especially in relation to the slot 1 Rifles) *for the very first time* In short, i LOVE 6.1 heck i love it so much i'm happy (almost) when i see my own grunts getting mowed down after their fearless (and often clueless) leader sends them scurying over open ground. :p After tusseling through the majority of the canned scenerios i've finally started my first long campaign. I've noticed no "uber" quality in the MG's in absolutum. If the unit is entrenched or in cover and not moving, there are no magic casualties. Sometimes i can pour fire into a position and not get a single casualty in return. However, catch infantry out in the open and watch out baby! I think its very historical as for the Pz-I analogy. Think of it this way. This very mediocre and diminuative little tank had to be good at "something" for the first German Blitzkreig to be effective. Given that their opponent was primarily infantry and calvary based i have no problem seeing mass slaughter if those types of units attempt to attack the "cardboard tanks" (as many were told by their officers beforehand!) out in the open. I seem to recall in fact a grisly carnage created by a wedge of Pz-I's when charged by a contingent of Polish calvery with lances drawn and swords waving. A grisly day in the history of the MG from what i've read. Now in 6.1, make that same move and you will see similar results. in closing i'd also add that unit experience plays a big factor too, often forgotten given the myrid of weapon effectiveness changes of late. Believe me my green Soviet gunners were not consistantly getting multiple casualties per fire round against their opponents. Also saw this key difference in a recent canned scenerio with a mixed group of veteren German infantry and MG gunners interspaced with a few green Italian units. The difference between the two nationalities MG gunner preformance was very apparant. [ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: Nikademus ]

_____________________________

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)

Post #: 31

- 8/1/2001 6:20:00 AM

ruxius

Posts: 909
Joined: 5/5/2000
From: ITALY
Status: offline

Can someone remember the very hopeless MG we had in the old SP1 ? The last post told me a very important thing...MGs have a "context" ...they are deadly in open space..that's good and real !

_____________________________

Italian Soldier,German Discipline!

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)

Post #: 32

- 8/2/2001 7:03:00 AM

kao16

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/10/2000
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

Originally posted by Khan7: You can assume that as soon as the thing opens fire everyone in the vicinity is going to hit the ground, therefore making it very hard to pick off more than one or two guys at a time, even if there is no effective cover. The first burst will arrive before the targets know it is coming. From this burst assume high casualties. Subsequent bursts will be received by troops hugging the ground, thus reducing subsequent casualties (troops may be pinned and taking suppression). This is how SPWAW currently works. So say you ambush one squad and wipe it out in one or two shots. Everyone else in the same vicinity will now know that there is an MG in the area, and will hit the dirt, therefore making it impossible for the MG to do to the next squads what it did to the first one. Next squads shot at by the same weapon will have a lower hit probability. The problem with them not hitting the ground when the group beside them is hit is a problem with the game engine and nothing can be done about that. And at closer ranges it is, as one person pointed out, much harder to throw out any doomsday fire (this is why WW1 troops were trained to charge straight at an MG if they were ambushed at a reasonably close range (100-200yards). If they just hunker down then they are pinned and cannot move, even to retreat, without getting whacked, and the MG will just pick them off one by one. But if they charge then most likely enough people will reach the nest to wipe it out.) Anyway, I will now leave these remarks here for others to comment on. Remember that if infantry move more than one hex per turn they are more or less standing up and walking or running, making them well exposed targets for the MG's. Running at a MG for 100-200 m (2-4 hexes) means 2-4 op-fires. [ August 01, 2001: Message edited by: kao16 ]

_____________________________

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)

Post #: 33

- 8/2/2001 8:06:00 AM

Greg McCarty

Posts: 234
Joined: 6/15/2000
From: woodbury,mn,usa
Status: offline

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Colonel von Blitz: ...I'd say we've taken a giant leap backwards concerning 'balanced playing'. A single Pz Ib can wipe out entire platoons of Polish soldiers from ranges exceeding 500 meters...this in one turn alone. 15 men in a 50 meter by 50 meter area...single burst from twin 7.92mm MG and the squad is destroyed. I'd say v5.01 was much better in this respect I'm not sure I agree. I just finished putting together a scenario which pits hoards of infantry against MG34s. Spent hours/days of playtesting. I cant say that degree of leathality is the norm at or beyond 500 yds. You may see occasions of it with a twin mount. But my experience has been that you will not see that level of effectiveness consistantly until the target is within about 7 hexes or less, and only when not already suppressed. What I did find though, is that the way to use MGs against massed infantry with the greatest efficiency is to hit advancing units one burst each, moving from squad to squad --while they are still upright and unsuppressed. After that initial burst, they go to earth and get much harder to hit in most cases. The ranges in this study were significantly less than 500 yds, and I have a personal doctrine right now that says dont even bother at ranges beyond 350 yds if ammo is an issue. Another thing to consider is that an MG without an enclosure can be considerably shaken up by counterfire from massed inf units, even if no hits are taken. This can reduce accuracy quickly. Overall, I think 6.1 has MG effectiveness modeled better than ever. Personnaly, I think proper weapon behavior should take precedance over balance. Balance problems can be effectively addressed by other tools in the game. I'd rather not see MGs tinkered with much further. Just my observation. :)

_____________________________

Greg.

It is better to die on your feet
than to live on your knees.

--Zapata

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)

Post #: 34