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8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/6/2004 9:33:17 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Guys, since my old sticky post on Corrections/Suggestions got hosed, I'd like for you to post comments on this new thread. The team is progressing ahead of schedule, we're testing the new OOBs, and we'll also be checking into correcting/replacing/creating LBMs for the previous incorrect ones. What was intended to be a minor tune-up has morphed into a major overhaul. I regret that the previous thread was lost, but we had already taken many notations from the old postings, so, to the gamers who contributed to this, your ideas have not been forgotten.
Glenn Higginbotham, OOB Team Member

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 2/9/2004 8:13:03 PM >

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RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/8/2004 2:32:54 AM   
Cirrus


Posts: 132
Joined: 11/17/2000
From: Oulu, Finland
Status: offline 		I think new sticky thread here would in place also. There is already few intresting issues going on in their own threads. Would be easier to follow the OOB discusion if you'd open sticky for that.

_____________________________

Cirrus
"You can cheat all people for some time and some people for all time, but not all people for all time.....and never your mom"

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 2
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/8/2004 9:28:07 PM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		Here are a few things I found while making my own Icon Bible when the Forum was down;

Italian; The SMV M43 75/46 has wrong Icon. Shows M12 Sym 555. Should be Sym 286.

Russian; The T18 has wrong LBM---shows T27. Ant FT17 Pic would be a better alternative.

Yugoslavia; Gaz-FO Icon is wrong, Sym 873. Should be Sym 853.

Japan; The unit called "Transport" shows big green OLD tank dozer hull. A Dihatsu barge would work nicely here.

Nationalist China; VCL MKVI shows French UE Sym 703. Should be Belgian vehicle Sym 168.
Carrier B, wrong Icon should be 506.

Nationalist Spain; SdKfz 10/4 has 150mm mortar for its main gun!!!
AAMG section armed with 7.92mm MG 34 AAMG has wrong LBM, shoes US water cooled 50cal AAMG

Czecoslovokia; Humber Scout Car should be Sym 898.
Wrong Icon for P-11, shows PZ II Lynx.

British; Mustang III has Nationalist China markings?

Hungary; S1A1 SM75 Cargo Plane has wrong LBM, shows US Halftrack.

Bulgaria; Renault R-35 should be Sym 216.

Belgium; Camion 75mm DCA has wrong LBM, shows aircraft.

Anzac; Black Prince has wrong Sym, should be Sym 890.

There may be others but these are the ones I noticed off hand. Hope this can be helpfull

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KED

(in reply to Cirrus)
Post #: 3
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/8/2004 9:35:32 PM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		Now with all this crap that has befallen us and the changes in this Forum, how will it be possible to post New Icons or anything else for that matter? I have virtually tracked down almost every Icon in the SHP files. My intention was to create a Spread Sheet and post it here. But now I dont see how this will be possible. Any suggestions?

< Message edited by Kevin E. Duguay -- 2/8/2004 2:37:04 PM >

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KED

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Post #: 4
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/8/2004 9:47:35 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Kevin, the only thing I can tell you is that http://spwaw.com has an area for attaching graphics files. This isn't shameless promotion, but a workaround until Matrix gets everything back in order. My mod privileges were erased, so I'm just thankful I'm able to log on with no problem. I'm not going to bombard David or Shaun with requests at this time.

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Post #: 5
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/8/2004 10:00:48 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Kevin, the 'reply to message' window has 'click here to upload' option...just below the message box. Doesn't that work?

Voriax

_____________________________

Oh God give Me strength to accept those things I cannot change with a firearm!

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 6
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/8/2004 11:13:26 PM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		Voriax,

Yes. But it only supports gif/txt/and jpg. In any case how would any of these formats be accessable to others to download? Especially a spread sheet?

KG Erwin,

So at some time in the future Matrix will allow ZIP files to be posted? I hope so. I took the time to update all my security programs after this last fiasco and will be sure to update and then scan all submissions in the future before I send them to anyone!!

Hackers suck! I hope they hang this jerk!!

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KED

(in reply to Voriax)
Post #: 7
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/8/2004 11:29:35 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Ok, but you could zip your spreadsheet, change extension to .txt and post it. Just tell that after downloading change the extenzion back to zip. But..200k limit...
Hopefully this will change soon.

Voriax

< Message edited by Voriax -- 2/8/2004 11:33:30 PM >

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Oh God give Me strength to accept those things I cannot change with a firearm!

(in reply to Kevin E. Duguay)
Post #: 8
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/9/2004 1:21:50 AM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		Thank you!! I'll give it a try!! Now I just have to type the thing up!! The way I type it could take a day or three!!!!

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KED

(in reply to Voriax)
Post #: 9
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/9/2004 2:07:47 AM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		SdKdz 250/9 crew 4 carrying capacity 5; I don't think so. A capacity of 2 at max. Reason 250/1 crew 2 carrying capacity 4, add a 20 mm turrent with a crew of 2 bring capanity to a max of 2 if that many.

< Message edited by pbear -- 2/8/2004 6:09:52 PM >

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 10
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/9/2004 3:32:12 PM   
Warrior2


Posts: 237
Joined: 6/25/2001
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		Probably already noticed, but in Nov '44, the US Army armor purchase menu has duplicate Wolverines & Hellcats. Only difference I can see is the price.

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Post #: 11
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/9/2004 3:43:32 PM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Warrior

Probably already noticed, but in Nov '44, the US Army armor purchase menu has duplicate Wolverines & Hellcats. Only difference I can see is the price.


the more expensive ones have APCR ammo !

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Post #: 12
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/10/2004 1:19:34 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cirrus

I think new sticky thread here would in place also. There is already few intresting issues going on in their own threads. Would be easier to follow the OOB discusion if you'd open sticky for that.



David has asked me to stay on as a moderator, so once I get my mod privileges restored, I'll make this a sticky.

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(in reply to Cirrus)
Post #: 13
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/10/2004 9:22:22 PM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		Icons for Italian SMVs Should be as follows;
SMV M43 75/34------SYM-----285

SMV M43 75/46------SYM-----286---Wrong Icon in Italian OOB

SMV M43 105/25-----SYM-----593---Correct in Italian OOB Wrong in Cz/Ger

That is all.

< Message edited by Kevin E. Duguay -- 2/10/2004 2:26:07 PM >

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KED

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Post #: 14
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/11/2004 2:13:44 AM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Not to worry I always talk to myself that way I never loose and argument.
The 250/11 with the 28/20 MM gun has HE AP and APCR. Now I don't object to the AP or the APCR but the HE is totaly wrong this gun never ever used HE the AP is qustionable depending on how you define the round. This is akin to giving the British 2 pounder an HE capacity. The towed version of this gun only has APCR.

(in reply to panda124c)
Post #: 15
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/11/2004 7:59:00 AM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		US Army Combat Group problem:
Up til December 1942, the Combat Group comes with a command tank as the company commander unit. From January 1943 until January 1944, there is NO command tank assigned. The Combat Group is commanded by the scout car section.....

In February 1944, command tanks are once again available.

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Post #: 16
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/11/2004 9:10:52 AM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		pbear,

The AP is wrong!

You know about the tungsten round.

2.8cm Sprgr patr 41: Fused AZ 5072. projectile weight. 85gm(3.00oz), compleat round weight 577gm(20.35oz/1.27lb)

"This was a high explosive shell round. The projectile was machined from a steel bar to give a tubular body with sloping flanges, the front flange being pierced. The bursting charge was a pellet of PETN/wax weighing 5gm(0.18oz/77.1gr) and the shell was fitted with a percussion fuse. The propelling charge was 150gm(5.29oz) of Nz R P. The Ballistics of this round were the same as those of the piercing projectile, the maximum engagement range still being 800m(875yd)."

German Artillery of World War Two

Ian V. Hogg

A German 20mm projectile weighed 305gm(10.76oz) almost 4 times as much!
But as small as it was it did exist!

How about 20mmPzgr Patr 40 ?
PEN at 100m--------40mm at 0 slope (tungsten round)

Same book!!

< Message edited by Kevin E. Duguay -- 2/11/2004 7:12:07 AM >

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KED

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Post #: 17
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/11/2004 12:25:47 PM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		in H2H the 28mm has only APCR rounds seems right this way.

also i would question the tungsten round loadout´s of
later war or even middle war german guns, AFAIK the germans
didn´t produce them any mor ein great numbers because of
severe shortages. i read somewhere that only selected tanks/
guns which were to expected to encounter russian heavies
as IS1 or IS2 got a few round in 44/45.

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Post #: 18
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/11/2004 5:07:18 PM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		British 2 Pounder towed guns DID have HE rounds issued. The tank guns were only issued AP Shot.

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KED

(in reply to Frank W.)
Post #: 19
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/12/2004 7:55:49 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kevin E. Duguay

pbear,

The AP is wrong!

You know about the tungsten round.

2.8cm Sprgr patr 41: Fused AZ 5072. projectile weight. 85gm(3.00oz), compleat round weight 577gm(20.35oz/1.27lb)

"This was a high explosive shell round. The projectile was machined from a steel bar to give a tubular body with sloping flanges, the front flange being pierced. The bursting charge was a pellet of PETN/wax weighing 5gm(0.18oz/77.1gr) and the shell was fitted with a percussion fuse. The propelling charge was 150gm(5.29oz) of Nz R P. The Ballistics of this round were the same as those of the piercing projectile, the maximum engagement range still being 800m(875yd)."

German Artillery of World War Two

Ian V. Hogg

A German 20mm projectile weighed 305gm(10.76oz) almost 4 times as much!
But as small as it was it did exist!

How about 20mmPzgr Patr 40 ?
PEN at 100m--------40mm at 0 slope (tungsten round)

Same book!!

Learn something new every day. Could not have been very effective. So I guess I can continue to beat up Russian Infantry with the 28/20mm HE round without feeling guilty.

(in reply to Kevin E. Duguay)
Post #: 20
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/12/2004 7:58:41 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kevin E. Duguay

British 2 Pounder towed guns DID have HE rounds issued. The tank guns were only issued AP Shot.


IIRC the HE rounds were issued late in the war after most of these guns had been relpaced with the 6 pounder. I could be wrong, I have been in the past and plan to be in the future.

(in reply to Kevin E. Duguay)
Post #: 21
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/13/2004 1:56:47 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kevin E. Duguay

Here are a few things I found while making my own Icon Bible when the Forum was down;


Czecoslovokia;
Wrong Icon for P-11, shows PZ II Lynx.

British; Mustang III has Nationalist China markings?

Hope this can be helpfull


Is the P-II not a Lynx?

I think the UK Mustang has the RN blue roundal with white centre?

Very helpful. Thank you!

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Kevin E. Duguay)
Post #: 22
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/13/2004 2:05:00 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kevin E. Duguay

pbear,

The AP is wrong!


"This was a high explosive shell round. The projectile was machined from a steel bar to give a tubular body with sloping flanges, the front flange being pierced. The bursting charge was a pellet of PETN/wax weighing 5gm(0.18oz/77.1gr) and the shell was fitted with a percussion fuse. The propelling charge was 150gm(5.29oz) of Nz R P. The Ballistics of this round were the same as those of the piercing projectile, the maximum engagement range still being 800m(875yd)."



How about 20mmPzgr Patr 40 ?
PEN at 100m--------40mm at 0 slope (tungsten round)

Same book!!


I can't see a shell of that size with an exploding charge of 5 grams being very effective as an anti-personnel weapon. So HEKill 1?

How common was the 20mm Pzgr Patr40? In France or Poland or later campaigns?
I assume it was not available at all before 1940 and possibly not available in the France Campaign. Therefore what value would it have in shooting at T-34's. I am getting at the feasibility of the unit to engage a tank. In game terms, a pen value of 40mm would give this unit a fighting chance against most early-war tanks, but was the intended use for fighting tanks and therefore should this ammo be modeled in the game?

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Kevin E. Duguay)
Post #: 23
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/13/2004 3:17:05 AM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		Major,

Yes the P-II is a Lynx. To much coffee I think! Sorry about that one!

One question though. With so few built (101 to 131 depending on source) how did the Czechs obtain this vehicle when the Germans could'nt produce enough for themselves?

P2, Did the Royal Navy use Mustangs? Did they use them for Army ground support? I don't have a clue, it's just my opinion that maybe this plane needs a rework of its art work to make it RAF.

Oh BTW, the Netherlands are useing a PBY Catalina for a Donier. Hope I spelled that right.

Later!!

EDIT; Yes HE value of 1 would seem about right. Pen like a 20mm maybe?

< Message edited by Kevin E. Duguay -- 2/13/2004 1:20:38 AM >

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Post #: 24
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/14/2004 2:55:40 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Ok, back to the Sd Kfz 250 in general, they all have to high of a carrying capacity.

"In the standard armoured infanty carrier version a crew of six with an armament of two machine guns"
'German half-track vehicles 1939-1945' Almark Publications No 4.

So the 250/1 with a crew of two and a carry of eight is wrong, working from this basic carry the other 250's are also wrong. No more that a total of six men per vehical, as you increase the crew (adding heavier weapons) the carry should decrease, adding turrents (2 cm AC turrent) the carry should decrease even more. I should think that the 250/9 would have zero carry crew four. The 250/10 and /11 should have a crew of four and a carry of two.
The two MGs in the /1 could be reduced to one since one was an AA mount. The /10 and /11 had the forward mounted MG replaced with the AT gun so no MG unless the AA mounted gun is modeled.

To make the weapons load out work correctly there would have to be a Lt MG section of two men with a lower rate of fire than the four man Med MG section. I do not wish to open that can of worms, so if an MG is added to the /10 and /11 then the carry for these two vehicals should be reduced by two to none.

Yes I love my HT's and AC's

(in reply to panda124c)
Post #: 25
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/14/2004 3:07:58 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Major Destruction


How common was the 20mm Pzgr Patr40? In France or Poland or later campaigns?


This gun first saw service in 1941 and was in limited service in 1945. Apparently as the barrels wore out and the shell became rare they were replace with other weapons.

I have been unable to find any production numbers for this weapon but I do find pictures of captured one on all fronts. Also I have a book on Iron Cross winners and one speaks of using this weapon in Russia by an infantry unit to bust open bunkers (this was evidently an Infantry Lt AT unit).

(in reply to Major Destruction)
Post #: 26
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/14/2004 9:31:25 PM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Sorry.
I thought I was talking about ammunition.

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to panda124c)
Post #: 27
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/14/2004 10:06:17 PM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline 		What is the opinion on this Forum regarding any changes that might be made to the rate of fire of offboard artillery?

.....or any specific artillery pieces for that matter!

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Major Destruction)
Post #: 28
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/14/2004 10:48:31 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		Slow them down some, or give them more ammo, I think. I read constantly about hour long barrages and such, but the OB arty runs out of ammo fairly quickly. If the rate of fire was slowed some, then the ammo would last longer. Alot of the shots are redundant after the first few anyways, as the target has gone to ground.

Goblin

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(in reply to Major Destruction)
Post #: 29
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/14/2004 10:52:22 PM   
hogg


Posts: 30
Joined: 2/10/2004
From: Yorkshire. 'Nuff said!
Status: offline 		The other thing that has crossed my mind is on board artillery - specifically the (so-called) portable mortars, 82mm or less.

Surely, such a weapon in a prepared position, in a defend or delay scenario, would have more ammunition available than the same unit in an advance or assault, that relies on what it's crew (and friends!) can carry?

Still have mortars in defend situations running out of ammo after turn 4 - can't be right?

(in reply to Goblin)
Post #: 30
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