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RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions

 
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RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:23:05 PM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Every version since 4.5 that came out, I have greeted positively.

4.5 -This is the greatest game ever!!!
5.0 -Internet- Awesome!
5.2, 5.3+?- Great!
6.1- Hmm, some changes that seem bad, but screw it, awesome anyways!!
7- Same as 6.1, but I love it!
7.1- More of the same. Changes, yes, but its great!
8.0- Hmm, they know about all the mistakes from before, and all the errors found by us during testing of MCSE, so this is gonna be the best ever!!! Then? WTF?!? This has to be an error!! They issued the wrong version or something!

Nope.

I want it established that I am not an OOB basher. People are sure to think I am. I have played and loved every version up until now. But I sure as hell am going to speak up now. I refuse to play with players that send me OOB's of their making with stats like this stuff in it, so I don't want this kind of thing the 'official' version that all players are stuck using.

eric


Yeah, I feel the same.

The true jewel of WaW is in the armor engine with it´s sophisticated rendtion of vehicle damage and repairs, which is lightyears ahead of WW2 (or MBT for that matter). Now that the current OOB team has turned that into Haggis I see no reason to play WaW

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Post #: 241
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:27:15 PM   
harlekwin


Posts: 5863
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: arkham asylum
Status: offline 		Yeah when you play games with the ballistics values in order to "make the right armies" macho you sort of ruin the whole armor system....

another reason we were once implicitly told not to change values lightly.

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Post #: 242
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:36:06 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take.
So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that.

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Post #: 243
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:37:32 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		I would be just as negative about watching my house burn down and being unable to stop it.

Same thing.


Goblin

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Post #: 244
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:38:28 PM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take.
So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that.


Does this mean that you won´t answer any of the legitimate points that has been put forward so far?

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Post #: 245
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:40:15 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take.
So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that.


Does this mean that you won´t answer any of the legitimate points that has been put forward so far?



Guys, in Gunny's defense, he is only speaking for the OOB team because they won't do it. He did not sign on as a spokesperson for them, they stuck him with it because he is (pardon me, Glenn) sap enough to care about answering us. He could easily have just followed current policy and ignored us.

That said, Gunny, you bring alot of fire onto yourself by answering us...


Goblin

< Message edited by Goblin -- 2/28/2004 4:45:41 PM >

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Post #: 246
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:40:44 PM   
harlekwin


Posts: 5863
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: arkham asylum
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take.
So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that.



No, but oddly tech specs are seldom guilty of altering themselves.

I don't think the 88mm went to 98mm because he started eating like a human being again after the war.

So what should OOBs be based on?

Idealized myth factoring in unevenly on the tech side of the house or hard technical data with other factors taken care of by EXP/Morale?


I will posit that the reason that you are getting complaints about the "gear not being up to snuff" is because people do not use equipment within its envelope and have a poor understanding of the tactics needed to ride that envelope the best.

but since EVERY spwaw player thinks they are a genius at tactics who could school Rommel et al it MUST be that the OOBs need a tweaking'....

regards,
sven

< Message edited by harlekwin -- 2/28/2004 4:45:19 PM >

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Post #: 247
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:42:24 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Let me make one thing perfectly clear (oh my, I'm quoting another dead Republican)--it's up to the head of the OOB Team (Bryan Melvin), and others on the team to respond to you guys on OOB issues on this forum.

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Post #: 248
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:42:53 PM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Let me make one thing perfectly clear (oh my, I'm quoting another dead Republican)--it's up to the head of the OOB Team (Bryan Melvin), and others on the team to respond to you guys on OOB issues on this forum.


Then why don´t they?

You are dodging the issue here.

< Message edited by Rune Iversen -- 2/28/2004 9:47:33 PM >

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Post #: 249
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:45:14 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		They don't because the whole list of OOB changes are 'right'.


Goblin

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Post #: 250
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:45:28 PM   
harlekwin


Posts: 5863
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: arkham asylum
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Let me make one thing perfectly clear (oh my, I'm quoting another dead Republican)--it's up to the head of the OOB Team (Bryan Melvin), and others on the team to respond to you guys on OOB issues on this forum.


Then why don´t they?

You are dodging the issue here.




they are too busy making the batter for the cookies....

don't you retain anything you read?

These OOBs are NOT subject to review or testing by mere human being outsiders until they are consecrated "official".

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Post #: 251
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:48:45 PM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

They don't because the whole list of OOB changes are 'right'.


Goblin


Well, given the nature of artfull dodging taking place I tend to agree with you

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Post #: 252
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/28/2004 11:50:05 PM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		It doesn't 'feel' like you agree with them, watch it...


Goblin

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Post #: 253
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:00:49 AM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

It doesn't 'feel' like you agree with them, watch it...


Goblin


I can take care of myself


< Message edited by Rune Iversen -- 2/28/2004 10:09:13 PM >

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Post #: 254
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:15:25 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Goblin, my friend, you were asked to look these over, and you said no. You're my friend, but you have just closed the door on playing a part in testing these OOBs by an outside observer. What does this tell me? Simply that you, amongst others, have predetermined that you will not like the changes no matter how well-researched or thought-out they are.
As a moderator, this is confusing and disappointing. Nevertheless, discussion is encouraged. We're all concerned about the same thing, but are just disagreeing on the way to go about it. You guys are doing well, and keeping this discussion on a civil level. That's all that I ask for. Otherwise, have at it.

_____________________________


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Post #: 255
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:17:39 AM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Goblin, my friend, you were asked to look these over, and you said no. You're my friend, but you have just closed the door on playing a part in testing these OOBs by an outside observer. What does this tell me? Simply that you, amongst others, have predetermined that you will not like the changes no matter how well-researched or thought-out they are.
As a moderator, this is confusing and disappointing. Nevertheless, discussion is encouraged. We're all concerned about the same thing, but are just disagreeing on the way to go about it. You guys are doing well, and keeping this discussion on a civil level. That's all that I ask for. Otherwise, have at it.


It tells me that the OOB team is getting desperate in trying to cover up their half assed job. Tell me, just what would the price be in order to get a peek at those much vaunted OOBs?

Are you afraid of criticism and if not, why is the proposed changes not put up for discussion?

< Message edited by Rune Iversen -- 2/28/2004 10:21:55 PM >

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Post #: 256
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:18:03 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Rune, that was fired by an LMG, wasn't it?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

It doesn't 'feel' like you agree with them, watch it...


Goblin


I can take care of myself



_____________________________


(in reply to Rune Iversen)
Post #: 257
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:19:26 AM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Rune, that was fired by an LMG, wasn't it?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

It doesn't 'feel' like you agree with them, watch it...


Goblin


I can take care of myself




We academics have our ways....

_____________________________

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Fighting the EUnuchs from within

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Post #: 258
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:21:27 AM   
harlekwin


Posts: 5863
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: arkham asylum
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take.
So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that.


Does this mean that you won´t answer any of the legitimate points that has been put forward so far?



Guys, in Gunny's defense, he is only speaking for the OOB team because they won't do it. He did not sign on as a spokesperson for them, they stuck him with it because he is (pardon me, Glenn) sap enough to care about answering us. He could easily have just followed current policy and ignored us.

That said, Gunny, you bring alot of fire onto yourself by answering us...


Goblin



Oh I understand that reality.

Erwin at least has the testicular fortitude to face criticism, and stand reference when asked (ie Garands).

No the silence of the "wizards" is deafening.

_____________________________

$ociali$m-from those who will to those who won't.....

(in reply to Goblin)
Post #: 259
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:22:18 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Hmmm---do you have any good-looking sisters or cousins? Are they at least 15? Scratch that. 18?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Goblin, my friend, you were asked to look these over, and you said no. You're my friend, but you have just closed the door on playing a part in testing these OOBs by an outside observer. What does this tell me? Simply that you, amongst others, have predetermined that you will not like the changes no matter how well-researched or thought-out they are.
As a moderator, this is confusing and disappointing. Nevertheless, discussion is encouraged. We're all concerned about the same thing, but are just disagreeing on the way to go about it. You guys are doing well, and keeping this discussion on a civil level. That's all that I ask for. Otherwise, have at it.


It tells me that the OOB team is getting desperate in trying to cover up their half assed job. Tell me, just what would the price be in order to get a peek at those much vaunted OOBs?

Are you afraid of criticism and if not, why is the proposed changes not put up for discussion?


_____________________________


(in reply to Rune Iversen)
Post #: 260
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:25:35 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Goblin, my friend, you were asked to look these over, and you said no. You're my friend, but you have just closed the door on playing a part in testing these OOBs by an outside observer. What does this tell me? Simply that you, amongst others, have predetermined that you will not like the changes no matter how well-researched or thought-out they are.
As a moderator, this is confusing and disappointing. Nevertheless, discussion is encouraged. We're all concerned about the same thing, but are just disagreeing on the way to go about it. You guys are doing well, and keeping this discussion on a civil level. That's all that I ask for. Otherwise, have at it.


Well researched and thought out?!!?!?!?!?!?!?! Did you read what you typed?

I will tell you now why I turned you down. We were asked to review the OOB's while playtesting MCSE, and report mistakes. I did. I played 3 campaigns for 40+ battles, all with armor, and was told that my findings on the track-busting MG's were not what others were finding, I must be wrong. Other reported it also. I and others reported the nuclear bazookas, etc etc etc. All of it must have been mistakes, and it was all 'right'.

After I really turned up the emails, I was then invited to help refine the errors before release. Great! I spent craploads of my time finding and reporting errors. During all of this, the rest of the MCSE team was not even allowed to see the OOB's after their revisions. Then I get an email saying 'sorry about it, its all final and turned in'. Hmmm. It was only my time.

After wasting all of that time, They come out like they did, with the errors and more.

Now you want me to go round two?

I'm not an idiot.


Goblin

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Post #: 261
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:25:59 AM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Hmmm---do you have any good-looking sisters or cousins? Are they at least 15? Scratch that. 18?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Goblin, my friend, you were asked to look these over, and you said no. You're my friend, but you have just closed the door on playing a part in testing these OOBs by an outside observer. What does this tell me? Simply that you, amongst others, have predetermined that you will not like the changes no matter how well-researched or thought-out they are.
As a moderator, this is confusing and disappointing. Nevertheless, discussion is encouraged. We're all concerned about the same thing, but are just disagreeing on the way to go about it. You guys are doing well, and keeping this discussion on a civil level. That's all that I ask for. Otherwise, have at it.


It tells me that the OOB team is getting desperate in trying to cover up their half assed job. Tell me, just what would the price be in order to get a peek at those much vaunted OOBs?

Are you afraid of criticism and if not, why is the proposed changes not put up for discussion?



No, but if you could get Stuart Millis or Melvin or some of the other "Grand Wizards" to answer our queries you would help yourself greatly. For better or worse people see YOU as the person behind these Disneyland changes.

_____________________________

Ignoring the wulfir
Fighting the EUnuchs from within

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Post #: 262
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:26:22 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		Rune, other things that the OOB team didn't like have disappeared...


Goblin

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Post #: 263
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:30:34 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Sap? Hardly. I just like talking to you guys--this keeps me from eating or sleeping or all those other normal human activities--wait a minute, where did my pee-bucket go? Oh, well--mind if I go the bathroom? (aaaaaahhh).
quote:

ORIGINAL: harlekwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Harlekwin, no, I wasn't there. Neither were you. In any case, I will stand by my beliefs, both here and at the Depot. I have a specific role to play here, and you know that. It is perfectly logical for me to separate my personal opinions vis a vis my responsibilities, and this is the correct course for me to take.
So, my "bully pulpit" isn't here--that would be taking advantage of my position. Nothing that my Gunny Erwin alter ego stated at the Depot was intended to be as a "nattering nabob of negativism". That role is being played out by others. I never thought I'd use a term from Spiro Agnew, but there it is. I find some ironic humor in that.


Does this mean that you won´t answer any of the legitimate points that has been put forward so far?



Guys, in Gunny's defense, he is only speaking for the OOB team because they won't do it. He did not sign on as a spokesperson for them, they stuck him with it because he is (pardon me, Glenn) sap enough to care about answering us. He could easily have just followed current policy and ignored us.

That said, Gunny, you bring alot of fire onto yourself by answering us...


Goblin



Oh I understand that reality.

Erwin at least has the testicular fortitude to face criticism, and stand reference when asked (ie Garands).

No the silence of the "wizards" is deafening.


_____________________________


(in reply to harlekwin)
Post #: 264
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:34:04 AM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

Rune, other things that the OOB team didn't like have disappeared...


Goblin


Ï know


_____________________________

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Post #: 265
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:36:01 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		All right, you guys are cutting into my partying time--I just bought the "Band of Brothers " DVD box set, and a 12-pack of Heineken--you guys behave yourselves, and I'll see you later.

_____________________________


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Post #: 266
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:37:44 AM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

All right, you guys are cutting into my partying time--I just bought the "Band of Brothers " DVD box set, and a 12-pack of Heineken--you guys behave yourselves, and I'll see you later.


Send our regards to Stuart and Melvin

_____________________________

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Fighting the EUnuchs from within

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Post #: 267
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:40:50 AM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

All right, you guys are cutting into my partying time--I just bought the "Band of Brothers " DVD box set, and a 12-pack of Heineken--you guys behave yourselves, and I'll see you later.


Speaking of BOB, I was really dissapointed about...err...nevermind.



_____________________________

Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

- A. Solzhenitsyn

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 268
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:47:37 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		KG, you also mentioned that I am determined to dislike the OOB's, no matter what. I do dislike the changes that have been made thus far, because they appear to involve two six-sided dice and a pencil...


Goblin

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Post #: 269
RE: 8.0 Corrections/Suggestions - 2/29/2004 12:52:55 AM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

KG, you also mentioned that I am determined to dislike the OOB's, no matter what. I do dislike the changes that have been made thus far, because they appear to involve two six-sided dice and a pencil...


If you're not with us, you're against us. Naysayers be damned!



_____________________________

Jyri Kettunen

The eternal privilege of those who never act themselves: to interrogate, be dissatisfied, find fault.

- A. Solzhenitsyn

(in reply to Goblin)
Post #: 270
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