RE: Maybe Im too harsh?

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RE: Maybe Im too harsh? - 3/20/2004 6:02:06 PM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

quote:

Let's see, $50 is

...dinner for two
...2 trips to the movies for 2
...about 3 new cds or dvds
...between 1 and 5 books
...2 tanks of gas for me
...1/3 of a speeding ticket

Let's see I don't go out to eat (too expensive)
I haven't been to the movies since Aliens II
I don't buy cds or dvds (have a massive collection of vinyl records)
I haven't bought a book since Champions of Krynn sagas War of the Lance
I bought 1 tank of gas all last year
I never speed ;)

I have plenty of money, just very little worth spending it on. ;) My biggest expense was a wife with a credit card, boy, did I get rid of that in a hurry, the wife, not the credit card! heh

(in reply to dinsdale)

Post #: 121

RE: Maybe Im too harsh? - 3/20/2004 7:09:19 PM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline

I always find the dollar equation to be a comical one.

I only eat out rarely, because 50 dollars is also a full weeks groceries.

I rarely go to the movies, because the movies are rarely worth it (even if free in some cases).

I can't remember the last music I bought, been so long since anything was worth buying.

I buy a few dvds, but they are old films, back when they were worth watching. And being old, are often not expensive either.

I don't own a car, just to expensive to be worth it.

I am particularly choosy with books, because they ARE expensive. So I never read anything pointlessly trendy.

Which brings us the video games. Most cost about the same, and only a puny fraction were ever worth buying.

So just because many things are approximately the same price, is no justification for buying garbage.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 122

RE: Maybe Im too harsh? - 3/21/2004 6:27:47 AM

november

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline

Paradox games have artistry. I hope everyone sees that.

Their strength lies in their breadth, not depth. No one touches them on this score. All of their big games provide unsurpassed playability.

Because of this, people are patient with them. I mean, how could you play balance Burgundy and Dakota and The Papal States, and the Duchy of Athens, and on and on (EU II)?

Or Brazil and The Two Sicilians and Mexico and Portugal and Great Britain and Austria and Korea (Victoria)?

Their mistakes are their small games�Two Thrones and COTN. The lack of breadth in these games underlines the lack of depth in the game engine. IMHO their small games should be super complex.

But who knows? Those titles may have been money makers for them, considering the scant resource investment compared to their big brothers.

Another curious thing about Paradox: who actually designs their games? The lead programmer is well know but, as far as I know, the actual designer is never seen.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)

Post #: 123

RE: Maybe Im too harsh? - 3/21/2004 7:27:45 AM

dinsdale

Posts: 384
Joined: 5/1/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: november
Because of this, people are patient with them. I mean, how could you play balance Burgundy and Dakota and The Papal States, and the Duchy of Athens, and on and on (EU II)?

Or Brazil and The Two Sicilians and Mexico and Portugal and Great Britain and Austria and Korea (Victoria)?

IMHO they handled it much better in Victoria: minors really are minors and the majority of work was made to make the majors playable. They started out that way in EU1 and were sidetracked in EU2. That's the only flaw with EU2, instead of trying to balance a game with 100 countries they should have made it challenging to play a major and ensured the game was based around that type of play.

(in reply to november)

Post #: 124

RE: Maybe Im too harsh? - 3/21/2004 7:36:19 AM

november

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline

Dinsdale,

I've seen you on the Paradox fora..who designs thier games? To me lead programmers are developers, not designers.

(in reply to dinsdale)

Post #: 125

RE: Maybe Im too harsh? - 3/21/2004 8:22:51 AM

dinsdale

Posts: 384
Joined: 5/1/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: november

Dinsdale,

I've seen you on the Paradox fora..who designs thier games? To me lead programmers are developers, not designers.

Yes I've been there a while. A little miffed at the moment though, it appears as though Victoria being completed 4 months after I bought it is not important, and the next patch which fixes the bugs introduced in 1.02 which fixes bugs introduced in 1.01 etc etc etc is not going to be finished for a while.

I don't know who designs the games. I believe Johan does most of the work though, including design of their own games. I agree about programmers not necessarily being the greatest game designers, and without wishing to slight Johan's efforts, the difference between EU1 which was based on an existing boardgame, and Paradox-designed HOI and Victoria are immense. It's as though they take 100 ideas and link them into a game without ever considering how the different features should link together or if one feature directly contradicts another

A very strange way to design games.

I hope they go back to boardgame-inspired games ramping up the features between releases instead of trying to fit everything in at once, then changing all the rules a month later to suit some die-hards in the first patch.

(in reply to november)

Post #: 126

RE: Maybe Im too harsh? - 3/21/2004 5:13:53 PM

november

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline

No, no knock on Johan. In my experience �lead programmer� is akin to developer, and developer is (usually) not the designer. I don�t recall ever seeing anyone on the Paradox fora titled �designer.� But their game development/software development model may be different, and Johan may indeed be the designer.

Does anyone know?

(in reply to dinsdale)

Post #: 127

RE: Maybe Im too harsh? - 3/21/2004 10:43:34 PM

DerekP

Posts: 60
Joined: 3/1/2004
Status: offline

Johan = lead programmer
Greven = game designer
Doomie = sneaky AI person

(in reply to november)

Post #: 128

RE: Maybe Im too harsh? - 3/21/2004 11:00:42 PM

november

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline

Thanks Derek. I don't recall seeing Greven post. Shy I guess.