RE: Countering the Zero Wall

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> RE: Countering the Zero Wall

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RE: Countering the Zero Wall - 3/20/2004 10:25:41 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

You still can't match my Mavis sqd with 9 planes and 114 pilots

Ouch... this is even more bad than my "Dave" squadron (14 Aircraft MAX and 65+ pilots)...

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 31

RE: Countering the Zero Wall - 3/20/2004 6:10:32 PM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

I'm gettin' close, Leo. I've got a PBY squadron with 12 planes, 97 pilots - AND THREE KILLS!

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 32

excess pilots - 3/20/2004 6:38:02 PM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline

Hi, I wonder if we can track down the reason so many pilots are placed in air units. I do not get these really high numbers. (my most overloaded unit has 36 aircraft and 44 pilots) But then I also withdraw partial units quite often when I see overloading taking place. (have 2 units of same type ac in same base. If one has excess pilots fly it till it has at least one damaged ac. Now transfer group to new base. damaged ac and excess pilots are left behind. Now withdraw (do not disband) partial unit. damaged ac goes to other group but all excess pilots withdrawn. Partial units do not reform so pilots go back into pool.

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 33

RE: excess pilots - 3/20/2004 7:09:02 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, I wonder if we can track down the reason so many pilots are placed in air units. I do not get these really high numbers. (my most overloaded unit has 36 aircraft and 44 pilots) But then I also withdraw partial units quite often when I see overloading taking place. (have 2 units of same type ac in same base. If one has excess pilots fly it till it has at least one damaged ac. Now transfer group to new base. damaged ac and excess pilots are left behind. Now withdraw (do not disband) partial unit. damaged ac goes to other group but all excess pilots withdrawn. Partial units do not reform so pilots go back into pool.

Mogami in our current UV PBEM I don't have single unit that doesn't have excess pilots...

I also tried your "recipe" many times but it never works out...

I tried that many many times in both my H2H test and PBEMs...

Unfortunately this never works for me because all pilots do transfer with
main force (i.e. undamaged aircraft).

Example:

You have 27 aircraft in Betty squadron and 45 pilots. Out of those 27
aircraft 3 are damaged.

If I transfer the 24 undamaged aircraft somewhere else 42 pilots would go
with them (i.e. 42 pilots with 24 undamaged aircraft) and just 3 pilots
would stay with 3 damaged aircraft.

BTW, I searched the forums and found that you posted this there as well but
other people also had the same thing in saw and it never worked for them
either...

Did you, perhaps, do several consecutive transfer hops perhaps (i.e. move
unit 3 times in 3 days)?

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 34

RE: excess pilots - 3/20/2004 7:22:34 PM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
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Hi, Once again I am baffled because this always works for me and it works for other people I've talked to. When a group moves to a new base only repaired aircraft move (some might arrive damaged) and the number of pilots moved should match the number of AC that arrived at new base.

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 35

RE: excess pilots - 3/20/2004 7:44:08 PM

CMDRMCTOAST

Posts: 673
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: Mount Vernon wa..
Status: offline

VMF-224 AT WUNPUKO
3 PLANES READY
1 IN REPAIR
24 PILOTS

TRANSFERED TO LUGANVILLE
3 PLANES 3 PILOTS

WITHDREW GROUP
AND 1 PLANE SHOWED UP IN THE OTHER SQUADRON
NO EXCESS PILOTS.

Mogami you have solved a problem I have had for a while now.

_____________________________

The essence of military genius is to bring under
consideration all of the tendencies of the mind
and soul in combination towards the business of
war..... Karl von Clausewitz

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 36

I have idea... - 3/20/2004 8:15:17 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, Once again I am baffled because this always works for me and it works for other people I've talked to. When a group moves to a new base only repaired aircraft move (some might arrive damaged) and the number of pilots moved should match the number of AC that arrived at new base.

I have idea...

For what side did you use your "recipe"?

Allies or Japanese?

In my PBEM games as Allies I am very satisfied with my excess pilots (i.e. I don't want to loose them) and they come in rather trained.

I only have problem with PBEMs where I playa s Japanese and where I really do want to get rid of the excess pilots since they come in with EXP 15-25...

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 37

RE: excess pilots - 3/20/2004 8:31:46 PM

Philwd

Posts: 285
Joined: 3/19/2002
From: Arizona
Status: offline

Hi Mogami,
I've tried this. Every time the excess pilots go with the transferred sqdn. Best I have been able to do is get 4 pilots remaining with the damaged airplane.

Quark

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 38

RE: excess pilots - 3/20/2004 8:43:15 PM

bilbow

Posts: 741
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Concord NH
Status: offline

I've thried this method too, everal times. The excess pilots always transfer, leaving the damaged a/c with 0-3 extra pilots at the original base.

_____________________________

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile- hoping it will eat him last
- Winston Churchill

(in reply to Philwd)

Post #: 39

RE: excess pilots - 3/21/2004 4:25:35 AM

Monkey

Posts: 42
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

Hi guys, even though I'm a total newbie and only just getting to Dec 42 in SC19 v the ai I have noticed that excess pilots allows you to fly more missions as such, because there's less fatigue in the sqdn as a whole.

As for the the Allied Air forces I have found that whenever possible, I give them low altitude sweeps (100ft from PM to Lae is my personal fave) , they will fly 2 missions a day and in no time at all their exp soon tops up to an average of 80/90 for the whole sqdn, rotate the sqdns carefully and when P38's arrive you will soon have some really effective units to take the Zero Wall to the cleaners. Now Iv'e written this it looks like a really gamey tactic!

(in reply to bilbow)

Post #: 40

RE: excess pilots - 3/21/2004 5:09:07 AM

Philwd

Posts: 285
Joined: 3/19/2002
From: Arizona
Status: offline

Hi Monkey,
While that may be good for the Allies for the IJN all it means is every turn you get pilots with EXP 15-25 filling up your squadrons. And since the code is written to allow lower experience pilots have more missions for training it means your sqdn as a whole drops dramatically in effectiveness. With the higher ops losses for the IJN few of those lower exp pilots ever make it 50 EXP.
BTW your sweeps are not gamey. I think most players train up with cakewalk missions.

Cheers,
Quark

(in reply to Monkey)

Post #: 41

RE: excess pilots - 3/21/2004 5:25:41 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

Mog, I think it's pretty simple. PBY, Mavis, and other such units fly almost every turn. They lose planes to attrition, and some to combat, but always fill back up to capacity. The game seems to "reward" active units with pilots, so - voila! - pilot numbers and experience build up.

Fighter groups tend to get ground up in combat, and their aircraft replacements are pretty low (even 3+ or 4+ per day is low when you are flying half a dozen squadrons that take at least 1-2 operational losses each day and occasional spikes of losses from bad combat results).

Once upon a time, the "pilot allocation" phase was added in order to clean up an even worse problem back in the v. 1.x days. Maybe it's time to look at revising that "fix" in order to refine it.

Does this discussion have any effect on WitP? I think it might.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 42

RE: excess pilots - 3/21/2004 10:11:02 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Mog, I think it's pretty simple. PBY, Mavis, and other such units fly almost every turn. They lose planes to attrition, and some to combat, but always fill back up to capacity. The game seems to "reward" active units with pilots, so - voila! - pilot numbers and experience build up.

Fighter groups tend to get ground up in combat, and their aircraft replacements are pretty low (even 3+ or 4+ per day is low when you are flying half a dozen squadrons that take at least 1-2 operational losses each day and occasional spikes of losses from bad combat results).

Once upon a time, the "pilot allocation" phase was added in order to clean up an even worse problem back in the v. 1.x days. Maybe it's time to look at revising that "fix" in order to refine it.

Does this discussion have any effect on WitP? I think it might.

And perhaps (please see above few messages where I wrote it 1st time) that it works for Allied squadrons and not for Japanese squadrons...

BTW, I did ask this several times in past and I (we) were told that WitP has the pilot allocation fixed (i.e. no excess pilots).

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 43

RE: Countering the Zero Wall - 3/21/2004 10:14:53 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

I'm gettin' close, Leo. I've got a PBY squadron with 12 planes, 97 pilots - AND THREE KILLS!

That's nice...

BTW, what is the EXP of lowest pilots? Is it above 50?

If that is the case then almost no harm done since they know how to fly.

In case of Japanese squadron (with similar number of MAX aircraft and with excess pilots) the lower 30% of pilots would be in EXP range of 15-25 and thus useless and making whole squadron worthless (until they can start flying properly when they slowly reach around 50 EXP)...

Leo "Apollo11

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 44

RE: Countering the Zero Wall - 3/21/2004 6:27:16 PM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

There are a whole bunch of 99s and the rest range down to a low of 68.

I quite agree that the Japanese get the short end of this deal, and I think there is a mis-designed game mechanic to blame for it.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 45

RE: Countering the Zero Wall - 3/21/2004 8:45:17 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

There are a whole bunch of 99s and the rest range down to a low of 68.

OK - and that's not bad at all...

quote:

I quite agree that the Japanese get the short end of this deal, and I think there is a mis-designed game mechanic to blame for it.

I think it's just a bug.

If I recall correctly "Kidd" posted few weeks ago that Joel found 3 different bugs regarding pilot allocation and that this all is fixed in WitP!

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 46

RE: Countering the Zero Wall - 3/24/2004 3:35:56 PM

frank1970

Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

You still can't match my Mavis sqd with 9 planes and 114 pilots

Ouch... this is even more bad than my "Dave" squadron (14 Aircraft MAX and 65+ pilots)...

Leo "Apollo11"

Had a nice Val-squadron of 27 planes on ASW for several turns and ended having 196 pilots.
Repaired it how Mogami told me, worked fine.

_____________________________

If you like what I said love me,if you dislike what I say ignore me!

"Extra Bavaria non est vita! Et sic est vita non est ita!"

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 47

RE: Countering the Zero Wall - 3/25/2004 10:25:32 AM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank

Had a nice Val-squadron of 27 planes on ASW for several turns and ended having 196 pilots.
Repaired it how Mogami told me, worked fine.

So... it works for Japanese as well... strange why I never ever managed to have it done in one of my PBEMs... strange indeed...

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to frank1970)

Post #: 48

RE: Countering the Zero Wall - 3/25/2004 4:54:49 PM

Zeta16

Posts: 1199
Joined: 11/20/2002
From: Columbus. Ohio
Status: offline

I don't think it works, I had a Nell group with 64 pilots and put it on ASW and got a damaged plane. So I transfer the group and 63 pilots go with the 26 planes and 1 says with the damaged one. I also tried it with a Mavis group with 103 pilots and the same thing happened.

_____________________________

"Ours was the first revolution in the history of mankind that truly reversed the course of government, and with three little words: 'We the people.' 'We the people' tell the government what to do, it doesn't tell us." -Ronald Reagan

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 49