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magnifications to terrain shps (size ratios for other zoom levels)

 
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magnifications to terrain shps (size ratios for other z... - 3/14/2004 8:42:34 PM   
DBoutwell

 

Posts: 41
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Attention shp icon editors (Tracer, Warhorse, Harry)

Can someone remind me what the size ratios are for the different zoom levels of the terrain shp icons? I trashed my old computer, and there was a little sticky on the case with the size rations of each zoom level. I have only been working on z4 files for a while, and now that it is time to work on the other zoom levels for the new SPCW shp icons, I want to make sure that they are scaled correctly before going any further. Is the size z4=100%, z3=80%, z2=70%, z1=50%????? I did some computations based on the size of the icons in some shp files compared to the z4 file, and it wasn't what I thought it should be, so I'd be grateful to any of you icon editors who can remind me of the correct numbers.

Thanks,

David Boutwell
Post #: 1
RE: magnifications to terrain shps (size ratios for oth... - 3/15/2004 8:03:23 AM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline
z3=80%, z2=60% & z1=35%
For single hex icons the dimensions (in pixels) I use are z4=89, z3=72, z2=54 and z1=32
For multihex icons: z4=180, z3=144, z2=109, z1=65

You may see numbers +/- 1 from the values I listed, but I've found that those above prevent
any 'wiggling' as you zoom in and out, so they 'mesh' ideally with existing icons.

_____________________________

Jim NSB

(in reply to DBoutwell)
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RE: magnifications to terrain shps (size ratios for oth... - 3/15/2004 8:09:23 AM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline
I checked some past icons and found one small 'change' to what I posted above: for single-hex z3
some (about 1/3) worked better when I made them 71x71 instead of 72x72.

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Jim NSB

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RE: magnifications to terrain shps (size ratios for oth... - 3/15/2004 8:16:24 AM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline
One other 'handy' number you might need: at z4, each hex is ~50 pixels across.

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Jim NSB

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RE: magnifications to terrain shps (size ratios for oth... - 3/16/2004 1:56:55 AM   
DBoutwell

 

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Sweet! I'm back to two posts! That's twice that I've started over. Oh well, what difference does it make??

Thanks, Tracer! You provided everything that I needed! As I said, I trashed my little sticky notecard containing the data that Harry sent me way back when. And, even though its been stuck to my computer case, and staring me in the face every day since then, I could not, for the life of me, dredge up those numbers from my rapidly aging mind (140 ninth-graders in Spring heat will do that, you know).

Thanks,

David Boutwell

(in reply to DBoutwell)
Post #: 5
RE: magnifications to terrain shps (size ratios for oth... - 3/16/2004 6:35:53 AM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
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My dad taught 5th graders for 40 years...he had his own version of the Thousand Yard Stare!

BTW, the numbers you were looking for are also in RockinHarry's 'editing' guide (the one you can download from the link in his sig).
It also has a breakdown of what each SHP contains, and has expanded directions for using some of F. Chandla's editing programs.

I have a copy that I printed and refer to often...the .doc file itself I lost in a HD crash (otherwise I'd mail it to you).

_____________________________

Jim NSB

(in reply to DBoutwell)
Post #: 6
RE: magnifications to terrain shps (size ratios for oth... - 3/16/2004 6:21:01 PM   
RockinHarry


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Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
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Hi David, nice to see you around again and busy on things! The figures in my Word doc file are rough estimates and I figured these values out mostly by trial and error until they looked right in proportions!

You´re still working on SP:Civil War?

Maybe you have some leftover shapes and want to contribute them to the oncoming shape file project Volume II?

_____________________________

RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann

(in reply to tracer)
Post #: 7
RE: magnifications to terrain shps (size ratios for oth... - 3/17/2004 6:32:58 AM   
DBoutwell

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 3/14/2004
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Thanks, Tracer and Harry! Harry, I think it was your info. that I had for so long, Harry. Yes, I'm still around. Just working on other projects. Oh, yes, I am still working on SPCW! It gets better every day. I've taken a break from oob's to do a little work on terrain files. Most recently, I've made major changes to the old hedge/bocage files. Quite a while back, I changed the hedge icons into wooden fences, and moved the hedges to the bocage file, as any hedges around here are more like bocage. I've rarely seen European style hedges in old rural areas of VA and Gettysburg, etc., so I thought that the hedge file would be more appropriate as wooden fences, which SP obviously didn't originally have. Then, after further looking at old field boundaries in places like Manassas Battlefield, I decided that the hedge icons had to go, as they look too regular and formal. I have been replacing those files with wider, more irregular, but straight, tree icons. Around here, and many other agricultural areas, you get a line of cedar trees where the young trees sprout and grow in the field margins. These new icons more accurately portray that. (I love having a regiment move up on a wooded field margin, realign and enter the field, the opposite side of which is occupied by a waiting enemy. It reminds me so much of one of the battle scenes in the movie Barry Linden!-I think that is the guy's name). I've also changed a lot of the tree icons to add some deciduous diversity more appropriate to American forests. The winter tree icons are now mostly deciduous trees. I've even added dogwoods and redbuds for spring! :) Am I crazy about accuracy? I think you know the answer to that one. I now need to work on some of the other zoom levels. I haven't done any since this Summer, so I had forgotten the correct values. So, I appreciate you and Tracer jumping in and quickly providing the needed info.

I don't have any "leftover" files, yet. I do have a bunch of new buildings with American architectural styles, but they are still only bmp files. That will be a major project to jump into when I get ready to work on those files! That will probably have to wait until I have more free time in the Summer.

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to DBoutwell)
Post #: 8
RE: magnifications to terrain shps (size ratios for oth... - 3/23/2004 8:17:37 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DBoutwell
Quite a while back, I changed the hedge icons into wooden fences, and moved the hedges to the bocage file, as any hedges around here are more like bocage. I've rarely seen European style hedges in old rural areas of VA and Gettysburg, etc., so I thought that the hedge file would be more appropriate as wooden fences, which SP obviously didn't originally have.


Way to go David!:) How will you deal with the terrain attributes later? The hedge terrain (with wooden fence icons in SPCW) provides GOOD defense modifier, a "7" modifier for concealment (S8 Byte6) and LOS blocking of 80 (S8 Byte8)! Later in the game, these modifiers might not well correspond to what you might expect from a "fence" hex. Although your game won´t probably have "tank" like vehicles, there´s also the "hedge turn to rough" issue to consider! At least SPCW artillery might turn those "fence" (hedge) hexes into a formidable "rough" hex on occasions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBoutwell
I've also changed a lot of the tree icons to add some deciduous diversity more appropriate to American forests. The winter tree icons are now mostly deciduous trees. I've even added dogwoods and redbuds for spring! :) Am I crazy about accuracy? I think you know the answer to that one.


Yes, I do, definitely!

Wished more people would care on that sort details, as you do David! :cool: I´ve seen way too many maps, that even had palm tress planted f.e on an "eastern front" map! :eek: I consider at least 90% of maps ever released by any scenario/map maker to date, to be "unrealistic" when it comes to properly selecting foliage and buildings for their maps! One needs to mention that the SPWAW terrain selection routine does not bother with that either (selects randomly), so it´s not always the fault of the map maker.;) However, if you optimize the terrain file set for a particular theater (like you do for SPCW), then off course you won´t have any such problems and even unskilled map makers will produce great and realistic looking maps.

Beside all that, I wish you all luck and endurance to get SPCW seeing the light of day!:)

David, do you work your SPCW buildings in 2D or in 3D (before conversion to top view)?

I´m currently thinking of using a 3D application to make some of the new buildings for the shape file update Volume II. I´m yet undecided if it´s worth all the extra workload.

_____________________________

RockinHarry in the web:

https://www.facebook.com/harry.zann

(in reply to DBoutwell)
Post #: 9
RE: magnifications to terrain shps (size ratios for oth... - 3/25/2004 3:15:59 AM   
DBoutwell

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 3/14/2004
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Harry,

Sorry for the delayed reply. I, myself can't really change the terrain attributes without having access to the game code. During play testing, I did not find fences to provide an unrealistic amount of cover to a size 2 company of 50 men (no, the unit sizes don't necessarily correlate exactly with SPWAW unit sizes. I had to reduce the sizes to decrease casualties to a more accurate level (Remember that it practically took a man's weight in bullets to kill him). I think that I've finally gotten it right to where a volley from a company can fly high or low and infict no casualties, while most of the time at medium range and less you'll inflict an average of 1 to 2 hits, and then there is the well-aimed volley that takes out 5-8 men! That is still historically high, but it "feels" right for this game. If you look at the fences around Gettysburg National Battlefield, you realize that for many of them, wood blocks easily over fifty percent of the "air space" behind them. Which explains to me why a fene line, despite what we might think, was a very desirable cover compared to standing in the open. At the Sunken Road at Antietam, the Confederate soldiers (three of my ancestors among them) most likely had to step up out of the road bed to a fence that lines the road in order to fire (as the fence had to block their field of fire unless they fired between the rails directly to their front). Although many a soldier was hit, that fence, along with that road bed provided a fabulous defensive position. In another instance, both sides occupied fencelines on each side of Hagerstown Pike and blasted away at one another for a lot longer than they would have out in the open at that range. So I don't think that the defensive bonus provided by the old hedge defensive benefit is too great, in the absence of the ability to do anything about it anyway. Fences played too important a battlefield cover to leave them out totally, and the hedge option seemed to me to be my best approach to modelling them. A typical American hedge is about navel high. That would probably have no more line of site impact on a company of standing men than a chest-high, wooden rail fence. So, I think that I can live with the hedge line-of-sight, as it is, for now. But hey, mayne someone will do some additional work with the code in the future, huh?

As for the houses, I take the original roofs from SPWAW and modify them to incorporate American architectural styles for roof lines, chimney locations, and traditional locations for additions. In America, people often built a house in the style of the day, Federal, for example. Then, as their family grew, they added on to the old "box" shape. In addition, they might add things like an attached kitchen, or storage room. By the end of the life of the house, you migh hardly be able to identify the original part of the house! So, I've added things like that. I never thought I'd be spending money on architecture books, but I have!

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to DBoutwell)
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