Russian 37MM AA, the best AT weapon?

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Russian 37MM AA, the best AT weapon?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Russian 37MM AA, the best AT weapon?

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Russian 37MM AA, the best AT weapon? - 10/6/2001 12:36:00 AM

Kinja

Posts: 8
Joined: 8/11/2001
From: Long Island, N.Y.
Status: offline

I've been away from SP for quite awhile and have been enjoying SPWaW a great deal the last month. Thanks Matrix for the update and getting it to run on a windows system. I have in the last two days found something a bit unusual. The Russian 37mm AA gun seems to be the best tank killer out there. The only thing it doesn't seem to kill is a Tiger. It seems to easily take out a IVg frontally at 15 or less. Now I know I am not a weapons expert by any stretch, but this just seems a bit much. I'm hoping one of you more knowledgable players could explain this to me. I'm not calling it a glitch, just seeking some knowledge that will help me deal with it. Thanks,
Art

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- 10/6/2001 1:18:00 AM

john g

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by ArtS:
I've been away from SP for quite awhile and have been enjoying SPWaW a great deal the last month. Thanks Matrix for the update and getting it to run on a windows system. I have in the last two days found something a bit unusual. The Russian 37mm AA gun seems to be the best tank killer out there. The only thing it doesn't seem to kill is a Tiger. It seems to easily take out a IVg frontally at 15 or less. Now I know I am not a weapons expert by any stretch, but this just seems a bit much. I'm hoping one of you more knowledgable players could explain this to me. I'm not calling it a glitch, just seeking some knowledge that will help me deal with it. Thanks,
Art

I just ran a force of IVe against them and they rolled right over the guns. The only tanks they killed were a side turret hit and a side hull hit. With a 59 max penetration and a small warhead, they don't seem a very potent tank killer to me. Roughly the equivilent of the Bofors 40mm AA gun which was nasty in the boardgame Tobruk due to its obscene aquired firing rate which could peel the paint off of a target even if it couldn't penetrate. I'll stick to Brit 6pdrs for light AT guns.
thanks, John.

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- 10/6/2001 4:37:00 AM

timc

Posts: 56
Joined: 12/28/2000
From: Lincoln, NE USA
Status: offline

I've found light AA guns in general to be ridiculously effective antiarmor weapons. I hate to run into them because not only do they knock out vehicles, they are very hard to spot. In a desert battle as Germans against British in a long campaign, I lost two entire platoons of Pz III's to 2 40mm Bofors over the course of three turns and nobody ever spotted them (there were several of of infantry units with LOS to the gun positions, they just couldnt see them). As a British player, I have similar problems with the German 37mm and the Italian 25mm. It's very bad in the early years of a long campaign when tank armor is thin and troop experience is low.
It does provide immense satisfaction to run an infantry platoon up against an AA gun and wipe it out with SMG fire.

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- 10/6/2001 8:35:00 AM

Tombstone

Posts: 764
Joined: 6/1/2000
From: Los Angeles, California
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You cant really call the Bofors a 'light' AA gun. That thing is a wicked weapon, effective at killing everything during that period. Tanks are awfully light skinned at that point tho... so it makes sense. Tomo

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- 10/6/2001 8:58:00 AM

Tiger

Posts: 198
Joined: 6/20/2000
From: Memphis, TN USA
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by timc:
I've found light AA guns in general to be ridiculously effective antiarmor weapons. I hate to run into them because not only do they knock out vehicles, they are very hard to spot. In a desert battle as Germans against British in a long campaign, I lost two entire platoons of Pz III's to 2 40mm Bofors over the course of three turns and nobody ever spotted them (there were several of of infantry units with LOS to the gun positions, they just couldnt see them). As a British player, I have similar problems with the German 37mm and the Italian 25mm. It's very bad in the early years of a long campaign when tank armor is thin and troop experience is low.
It does provide immense satisfaction to run an infantry platoon up against an AA gun and wipe it out with SMG fire.

Tell ME about nasty experiences! I can't tell you how many Pz III's I've lost in the MC to British 2lbr's. In my experience, it is by FAR the most lethal AA weapon I have come up against. It's especially trying when you have virtually no infantry support and are forced to assault those fixed positions with your precious armor! I must say, however, I did gain a small measure against my opponent with 4 88's . But that's been too few and far between...

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- 10/6/2001 9:48:00 AM

Alexandra

Posts: 546
Joined: 12/7/2000
From: USA
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The two pounder is an AT gun and not an AA gun. It's also very much more effective in the game- as is the Boys ATR - than it was in real life. Alex

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- 10/6/2001 11:02:00 AM

Drex

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
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The Japanese 47mm AT gun is particularly effective against Shermans and is almost invisible. Pulled by horse teams, it is cheap and purchased in numbers, these babys can easily defeat any armored force. Only infantry and arty can neutralize ATGs.

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- 10/6/2001 5:58:00 PM

msvknight

Posts: 85
Joined: 6/9/2001
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline

Tiger, I think he meant the 40mm Bofors which fires a basically 2 pounder shell. Why does everybody get so upset about the quality of the British 2-pounder. For its time it was a very effective anti-tank weapon. Its weakness was only having an armour piercing round not a lack of penetration. If spotted it was fairly easy to overrun them with an infantry assault. It was at least as effective as any other AT gun of its time and was only exceeded by the AA guns (with their higher muzzle velocities) that the Germans began using in the anti-tank role. I'm not saying its an 88, but in 1940 no German tank was a Tiger either.

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- 10/6/2001 8:09:00 PM

Alexandra

Posts: 546
Joined: 12/7/2000
From: USA
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quote:

Originally posted by General Vasey:
Tiger, I think he meant the 40mm Bofors which fires a basically 2 pounder shell. Why does everybody get so upset about the quality of the British 2-pounder. For its time it was a very effective anti-tank weapon. Its weakness was only having an armour piercing round not a lack of penetration. If spotted it was fairly easy to overrun them with an infantry assault. It was at least as effective as any other AT gun of its time and was only exceeded by the AA guns (with their higher muzzle velocities) that the Germans began using in the anti-tank role. I'm not saying its an 88, but in 1940 no German tank was a Tiger either.

Actually, it wasn't that good of an AT gun. If you go back to reports made by the British Army and the Ministry of Munition from '40, you find a lot of complaints from France about the 2 pounders inability to engage German armor frontally and successfully at decent range. When you get to '41, in the desert, and you read the accounts of the tankers and AT gunners of the British forces, you find out that they did not feel that they had a chance to hurt a German tank - at all - with the 2# unless it was within 200 yards. In fact, thier inablity to engage at range prompted a major crisis in the British Goverment when it was discovered that even after the complaints from France no new ATG/Tank main gun was in production? Why? Because the Minister of Armaments decided that it was better to be making inferior guns constantly than to be making none while the production lines re-tooled. This decision cost him his job and nearly led to a Vote of No Confidence on Churchill, which he managed to avoid with the famous speech he made prising Rommel - and thereby giving Rommel a reputation that the German generals felt that he didn't deserve. Alex

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"Tonight a dynasty is born." Ricky Proehl, then of the Saint Louis Rams. He was right! Go Pats! Winners of Super Bowls 36, 38 and 39.

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Post #: 9

- 10/9/2001 1:29:00 AM

panda124c

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Alexandra:

Actually, it wasn't that good of an AT gun. If you go back to reports made by the British Army and the Ministry of Munition from '40, you find a lot of complaints from France about the 2 pounders inability to engage German armor frontally and successfully at decent range. When you get to '41, in the desert, and you read the accounts of the tankers and AT gunners of the British forces, you find out that they did not feel that they had a chance to hurt a German tank - at all - with the 2# unless it was within 200 yards. In fact, thier inablity to engage at range prompted a major crisis in the British Goverment when it was discovered that even after the complaints from France no new ATG/Tank main gun was in production? Why? Because the Minister of Armaments decided that it was better to be making inferior guns constantly than to be making none while the production lines re-tooled. This decision cost him his job and nearly led to a Vote of No Confidence on Churchill, which he managed to avoid with the famous speech he made prising Rommel - and thereby giving Rommel a reputation that the German generals felt that he didn't deserve. Alex

Boy, and all this over a little old ATG, I guess it was more effective than any other ATG, at about everything but AT work.

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- 10/9/2001 4:26:00 PM

Richard Harris

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Joined: 5/10/2001
Status: offline

Oh boy, here we go...
I see the 2pdr argument is flaring up again. The simple fact of the matter is that the 2pdr was, unquestionably one of the best AT guns of its generation.
Now before I get abused I must stress: OF ITS GENERATION! i.e. PAK35/36, Type 94, 20K m1932/34 etc... It is NOT a PAK38 or anything remotely like that. Its main problem being, as mentioned earlier in this thread, it was still in service when it was obsolescent at best (1941) and utterly obsolete at worst(post '41 in AC's and Tetrarch).
Various improvements (introduction of APCBC) were just not enough to make this gun competitive when the rest of the world was merrily playing with rather more powerful weapons... (I won't say anything about Littlejohn either!

) My experience with the damn things (in 1941) is that, when I am up against them, they are damn nasty, when I am using them, they are pretty inadequate... I obviously don't shoot as well as the AI...

Trying to get back OT, I too have been stung by medium calibre AA. All I can say is high velocity, high FC/RF automatic cannon are not very friendly at all, so smoke 'em, shell 'em and in with the bayonet...

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