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"House Rules" for UV PBEM

 
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"House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/8/2004 7:14:19 PM   
mariovalleemtl


Posts: 360
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From: Montreal
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This is the most common one ie the one I use;

"House Rules" for UV PBEM (Scen #17-19)

#1 Maximum allowed altitude for all aircraft in UV is 20000 ft (approx. 6500 m). This is because, historically, aircraft in South Pacific in 1942/1943 (UV timeframe) didn't fly in stratosphere due to lack of proper gear/facilities (not to mention time and loss of range because of very very hard climbing in humid atmosphere).

#2 Fighter-Bomber strafe attacks (i.e. "Sweep" at 100 ft) against enemy ground units are not allowed. This is because there still appears to be bug in current UV v2.30 regarding this (hundreds and even thousands of troops can be killed that way which is totally unrealistic).

#3 "Commando" style attacks with very small number of troops (i.e. troops that can be loaded on single/few submarines and/or ships) against populated enemy bases are not allowed. If such attack is wanted whole unit must be used. This is because with such "commando" style attack you can learn 100% true composition of troops in enemy base (i.e. it's cheat/exploit).

#4 "Commando" style attacks with very small number of troops (i.e. troops that can be loaded on single/few submarines and/or ships) against HEX that is possible enemy retreat path are not allowed. If such attack is wanted whole unit must be used. This is because with such "commando" style attack you can effectively block path of enemy retreat with very small number of troops (Example: As Japanese you invaded Port Moresby. If your ground troops are stronger enemy can be driven out. The near by, 1 HEX away, allied base is Lea Lea. If you take Lea Lea loosing enemy troops from Port Moresby will be destroyed instead of just retreating there).

#5 Barges (and US PT/LCx boats) can not be used in open seas. This is because such small craft can only be used on coastal routes. ALLOWED: Gili - Port Moresby, Lae - Gili Gili, "The Slot" ... DISALLOWED: Rabaul - Gili Gili, Cairns - Port Moresby, Luganville - Lunga...

#6 Only one submarine can be placed in submarine Task Force. This is to simulate that automatic "Wolf Packs" were not historically used in South Pacific in 1942/1943 (UV timeframe).

#7 Japanese Sub Doctrine OFF Fog of War ON Allied Damage Control ON Advanced Weather ON Allied/IJN Reinforcements VERY VARIABLE Allied Ship Commitment 100% IJN Ship Commitment 120% .

#8 All kind of night air attacks or just bombing attacks (i.e. airfield/port/ground unit air bombing) are unacceptable. Night attacks are just to powerfull in UV.

#9 F4U's Corsair should Never operate on a US CV in UV. This is a know game bug, the US Navy did not Use F4U's from CV's untill mid 44 ifrc, certainly not withen the time frame that UV cover's.


mario

< Message edited by Mario Vallée -- 4/18/2004 8:42:04 PM >


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RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/8/2004 9:39:36 PM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
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quote:

#1 Maximum allowed altitude for all aircraft in UV is 20000 ft (approx. 6500 m). This is because, historically, aircraft in South Pacific in 1942/1943 (UV timeframe) didn't fly in stratosphere due to lack of proper gear/facilities (not to mention time and loss of range because of very very hard climbing in humid atmosphere).


The B-17s flew over 20,000 regularly.

quote:

#2 Fighter-Bomber strafe attacks (i.e. "Sweep" at 100 ft) against enemy ground units are not allowed. This is because there still appears to be bug in current UV v2.30 regarding this (hundreds and even thousands of troops can be killed that way which is totally unrealistic).


The Marines routinely used fighters in a close air support role. They developed it actually using the Corsair as the usual platform.

quote:

#3 "Commando" style attacks with very small number of troops (i.e. troops that can be loaded on single/few submarines and/or ships) against populated enemy bases are not allowed. If such attack is wanted whole unit must be used. This is because with such "commando" style attack you can learn 100% true composition of troops in enemy base (i.e. it's cheat/exploit).


This is just like having coastwatchers nearby....the US did coordinate squad sized units with the coast watchers for precisely this goal.

quote:

#4 "Commando" style attacks with very small number of troops (i.e. troops that can be loaded on single/few submarines and/or ships) against HEX that is possible enemy retreat path are not allowed. If such attack is wanted whole unit must be used. This is because with such "commando" style attack you can effectively block path of enemy retreat with very small number of troops (Example: As Japanese you invaded Port Moresby. If your ground troops are stronger enemy can be driven out. The near by, 1 HEX away, allied base is Lea Lea. If you take Lea Lea loosing enemy troops from Port Moresby will be destroyed instead of just retreating there).


Doing this is not usual....the fatigue and attrition of the spread out units is not a move I would make anyway.

quote:

#5 Barges (and US PT/LCx boats) can not be used in open seas. This is because such small craft can only be used on coastal routes. ALLOWED: Gili - Port Moresby, Lae - Gili Gili, "The Slot" ... DISALLOWED: Rabaul - Gili Gili, Cairns - Port Moresby, Luganville - Lunga...


Agreed

quote:

#6 Only one submarine can be placed in submarine Task Force. This is to simulate that automatic "Wolf Packs" were not historically used in South Pacific in 1942/1943 (UV timeframe).


This would be a waste of time in UV anyway being as only one sub can attack in a given hex at a given time.

quote:

#7 Japanese Sub Doctrine OFF Fog of War ON Allied Damage Control ON Advanced Weather ON Allied/IJN Reinforcements VERY VARIABLE Allied Ship Commitment 100% IJN Ship Commitment 120% [/quotte]

Acceptable

quote:

#8 All kind of night air attacks or just bombing attacks (i.e. airfield/port/ground unit air bombing) are unacceptable.


The level bombers were used against base targets all the time......wrecks moralle on the ground to have bombers visiting ya every night. It was a usual practice.

quote:

#9 F4U's Corsair should Never operate on a US CV in UV. This is a know game bug, the US Navy did not Use F4U's from CV's untill mid 44 ifrc, certainly not withen the time frame that UV cover's.


Just because they didn't don't mean they couldn't. Command chose not to until they saw how effective the fighters were in theatre.

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Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


(in reply to mariovalleemtl)
Post #: 2
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/8/2004 9:45:29 PM   
barbarrossa


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The "commando"-type raid was not something I ever thought of.

I can understand blocking a retreat-path to exploit a game characteristic, but a recce "raid" shouldn't be a "cheat" unless I'm missing something with that.

It would tip off the "raidee" that enemy offensive considerations are afoot.

I haven't played a PBEM and am not trying to rock the well-established boat here, but if you could elaborate as to why this is not allowed it would be appreciated.

Perhaps the info from such a mission is too accurate?

Thanks in advance.

(in reply to mariovalleemtl)
Post #: 3
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/8/2004 10:19:38 PM   
rogueusmc


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I don't use this tactic....not because it's gamey or not...it's the fact that when ya load a portion of a unit on a transort, you have no way of deciding which parts of your unit get loaded (i.e. support, ANZAC squads, guns, what?)......if i loaded 200 load points worth of 7th aus brigade, and that 200 load points happened to be support units, they are screwed.

< Message edited by rogueusmc -- 4/9/2004 2:27:55 AM >


_____________________________

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Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


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Post #: 4
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/8/2004 11:28:03 PM   
tanjman


Posts: 717
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From: Griffin, GA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée

This is the most common one ie the one I use;

"House Rules" for UV PBEM (Scen #18-19)


I think you meant scenarios 17 - 19.

quote:

#1 Maximum allowed altitude for all aircraft in UV is 20000 ft (approx. 6500 m). This is because, historically, aircraft in South Pacific in 1942/1943 (UV timeframe) didn't fly in stratosphere due to lack of proper gear/facilities (not to mention time and loss of range because of very very hard climbing in humid atmosphere).


I can live with this.

quote:

#2 Fighter-Bomber strafe attacks (i.e. "Sweep" at 100 ft) against enemy ground units are not allowed. This is because there still appears to be bug in current UV v2.30 regarding this (hundreds and even thousands of troops can be killed that way which is totally unrealistic).


I can live with this until they fix the bug

quote:

#3 "Commando" style attacks with very small number of troops (i.e. troops that can be loaded on single/few submarines and/or ships) against populated enemy bases are not allowed. If such attack is wanted whole unit must be used. This is because with such "commando" style attack you can learn 100% true composition of troops in enemy base (i.e. it's cheat/exploit).


Agreed that's what the USMC Raider & Parachute battalions are for.

quote:

#4 "Commando" style attacks with very small number of troops (i.e. troops that can be loaded on single/few submarines and/or ships) against HEX that is possible enemy retreat path are not allowed. If such attack is wanted whole unit must be used. This is because with such "commando" style attack you can effectively block path of enemy retreat with very small number of troops (Example: As Japanese you invaded Port Moresby. If your ground troops are stronger enemy can be driven out. The near by, 1 HEX away, allied base is Lea Lea. If you take Lea Lea loosing enemy troops from Port Moresby will be destroyed instead of just retreating there).


Agreed that's what the USMC Paider & Parachute battalions are for.

quote:

#5 Barges (and US PT/LCx boats) can not be used in open seas. This is because such small craft can only be used on coastal routes. ALLOWED: Gili - Port Moresby, Lae - Gili Gili, "The Slot" ... DISALLOWED: Rabaul - Gili Gili, Cairns - Port Moresby, Luganville - Lunga...


I agree for IJN barges and USN PT, LCM & LCVP but not the LCI. The LCI routinely crossed the pacific and altantic oceans.

LCI Stats from Jane's Fighting Ships of WWII.
Displacement 387 tons full load; Dimensions 159 x 23 2/3 x 5 2/3 feet;

I can't find stats for WWII LCM & LCVP but the 13th edition of The ships and Aircraft of the U.S. Fleet list the following:

LCM-8 Mod 1 (steel hull)
Displacement 130.25 tons full load; Dimensions 73 7/12 x 21 1/12 x 5 1/6 feet;

LCVP-8 (wood or fiberglass hull)
Displacement 13.5 tons full load; Dimensions 35 3/4 x 10 1/2 x 3 1/2 feet;

quote:

#6 Only one submarine can be placed in submarine Task Force. This is to simulate that automatic "Wolf Packs" were not historically used in South Pacific in 1942/1943 (UV timeframe).


Agree.

quote:

#7 Japanese Sub Doctrine OFF Fog of War ON Allied Damage Control ON Advanced Weather ON Allied/IJN Reinforcements VERY VARIABLE Allied Ship Commitment 100% IJN Ship Commitment 120%


Open to negotiation.

quote:

#8 All kind of night air attacks or just bombing attacks (i.e. airfield/port/ground unit air bombing) are unacceptable.


I can live with this, though the japanese did use night attacks to harrass guadalcanal using float planes.

quote:

#9 F4U's Corsair should Never operate on a US CV in UV. This is a know game bug, the US Navy did not Use F4U's from CV's untill mid 44 ifrc, certainly not withen the time frame that UV cover's.


I Agree but not for the reason most people might think.

The following information is from the book Corsair - The F4U in WWII and Korea by Barrett Tillman Copyright 1979 by the United States Naval Institute ISBN 0-87021-131-5

The second Corsair squadron was VF-12 formed at NAS North Island, San Diego, CA in October 1942. It was not brought up to strength until 22 January 1943. When it reached the south pacific in the summer of 1943 for service aboard the USS Enterprise (CV-6) it exchanged its Corsairs for Hellcats. The main reason was apparently that no Cosair parts or equipment were in the supply pipeline for carriers. The same thing caused VF-17 (equiped with F4U-1A) to be replaced by VF-18 (F6F) for service aboard the USS Bunker Hill before she left San Diego for Pearl Harbour for the same reasons. The first Corsair unit to deploy on a CV was VF(N)-101 with 4 F4U-2 Corsair night fighters onboard the USS Enterprise on 9 Jan 44.


Now all I have to do is find the time for a PBEM game against some willing foe

< Message edited by tanjman -- 4/8/2004 4:38:11 PM >


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(in reply to mariovalleemtl)
Post #: 5
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/9/2004 12:37:16 AM   
Gecko


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée
#9 F4U's Corsair should Never operate on a US CV in UV. This is a know game bug, the US Navy did not Use F4U's from CV's untill mid 44 ifrc, certainly not withen the time frame that UV cover's.


Okay, I'll give you an example (happend to me in a PBEM):
I had only one CV left, all others sunk or sent back to PH for repairs - even sent Long Island back in hope to get some useful stuff. All my land based F4F-4s upgraded to F4U-1s.
Then I needed the three P-47C sqds. that arrived at Brisbane in the Solomons. Due to their short legs I had to use the only remaining CV as a transport meaning that I had to ground the onboard F4Fs at a base. CV is going to Brisbane to pick up the 72 P-47Cs and the grounded F4Fs upgraded to (guess what) Corsairs. That leaves me with two options IF I would accept that house rule
- either put my CV somewhere to northern Australia so that the F4Fs can be grounded somewhere out of range from Brisbane/Noumea (that means they might get caught by Betty strikes)
- or never transfer the upgraded F4U unit onto my carrier again.

Both options aren't acceptable for me. The reasons are:
- it's still just a GAME
- I'm not responsible for programmer's bugs

if you want that bug corrected, tell the programmer but don't burden someone else with rules that are out of the program's control.

bye, Gecko

(in reply to mariovalleemtl)
Post #: 6
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/15/2004 1:33:44 PM   
Rainerle

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée


#8 All kind of night air attacks or just bombing attacks (i.e. airfield/port/ground unit air bombing) are unacceptable.


Hi,

doesn't S. Sakai in 'Samurai' tell about night attacks on Lae from Port Moresby by B-25 / B-26 ???
Will have to look it up.

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RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/16/2004 12:24:27 AM   
crsutton


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There are other known bugs and exploits in the game. For example, you can easily catch a small raiding Task Force that is retreating by placing your carrier force on "react and assigning it an aggressive commander. Your pursuing TF will warp accross the ocean and catch a fleeing unit even with a good head start.

Corsairs were not used on carriers but I am willing to bet that if the Real Allies were fighting the kind of odds that we see in #17 and 19, they would have found a quick way to get corsairs on carriers. Besides, not all Japanese Zero pilots were carrier trained-yet you have no house rule against that.

It can go on and on.

The point I am trying to make is that in my 35 years of gaming experience, house rules create as much problems as they prevent- and can end friendships. Just read the posts in this string to see how much difference of opinion there is. I don't generally agree to play with any "house rules". ( There are exceptions though ) In UV as well with any other game, I try to use common sense and play as historically as possible. I would like my opponent to do the same. If he is using gamey tactics, I have no objection. I simply adjust my tactics accordingly and try to have fun within the parameters established. As I said before, its just a game and I'm not playing for money.

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Post #: 8
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/16/2004 7:29:31 PM   
mariovalleemtl


Posts: 360
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From: Montreal
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quote:

Hi,

doesn't S. Sakai in 'Samurai' tell about night attacks on Lae from Port Moresby by B-25 / B-26 ???
Will have to look it up. Rainerle


Night attacks are just to powerfull in UV.

mario

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Post #: 9
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/18/2004 12:13:49 AM   
swagman

 

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From: Australia
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House Rules do have their place, in particular in a tournament situation where all players are supposed to be on an even playing field. Games do have programming absurdities and bugs, which are often secret knowledge beholden to only a few. A typical human trait is to use any advantage to win (bar shooting your opponent, though that does happen occasionally), and using house rules are an excellent tool to stop this happening.

In a non-tournament PBEM, the most important thing is for both players to be playing to the same set of rules. As such, Mario's items are a useful check list to alert players to bugs and issues and on which they can agree on what is allowable or not. If players want to include all of Mario's items or exclude them, it is up to them.

For my part, I think some a very valid. I would like to thank Mario for making these available, particularly as it is so easy to criticise what someone else has put forward, rather than coming up with original suggestions of our own...I have included my comments below.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée

This is the most common one ie the one I use;

"House Rules" for UV PBEM (Scen #18-19)

#1 Maximum allowed altitude for all aircraft in UV is 20000 ft (approx. 6500 m). This is because, historically, aircraft in South Pacific in 1942/1943 (UV timeframe) didn't fly in stratosphere due to lack of proper gear/facilities (not to mention time and loss of range because of very very hard climbing in humid atmosphere).


While this may have historically been the case, it doesn't up-set the game balance. As such, it is a simulation preference. As mentioned, some bombers like B-17's and B-24's did commonly exceed 20,000 ft...but probably not more than about 5,000 feet, so a 20,000 ft limit doesn't matter that much for them...probably to the US advantage, since it makes it more likely that Zeros can intercept and get chewed up by defensive fire.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée #2 Fighter-Bomber strafe attacks (i.e. "Sweep" at 100 ft) against enemy ground units are not allowed. This is because there still appears to be bug in current UV v2.30 regarding this (hundreds and even thousands of troops can be killed that way which is totally unrealistic).


As a bug issue, I think this is good to exclude. However, if two players want to massacre each others troops, then let them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée #3 "Commando" style attacks with very small number of troops (i.e. troops that can be loaded on single/few submarines and/or ships) against populated enemy bases are not allowed. If such attack is wanted whole unit must be used. This is because with such "commando" style attack you can learn 100% true composition of troops in enemy base (i.e. it's cheat/exploit).


This is a game absurdity, since 20 commandos dropped off by a sub could never count to the last man the 50,000 troops at a base, and know the fighting capacity and manpower of each unit. The best they could do would be to learn something like the bombardment result, that is 20,000-40,000 troops and over 100 guns. In addition, since there areno 20 strength commando units in the game, it is obviously not something the game was designed to accommodate.

In addition, the only way to do this is to send in a suicide squad that will be eliminated in their attack. Such deliberate suicide attacks were not the norm. Where attacks with little hope of escape were mounted, they were done so with the intention of destroying something important, not information gathering...and there was also a rescue plan in place just in case the party made it out alive.

Furthermore, in game terms, someone had to be left alive to carry the intelligence back to HQ, given that if infantry portable radios existed at the time, they were not very reliable and had little range and were not designed for communication with submerged submarines.

In the house rules, if a player really want to do this, he can still drop off the entire unit, which only takes 15 subs to carry a 900 value battalion. However, it does mean the player pays the penalty of losing the unit, and there are only limited units of this size in the game.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée #4 "Commando" style attacks with very small number of troops (i.e. troops that can be loaded on single/few submarines and/or ships) against HEX that is possible enemy retreat path are not allowed. If such attack is wanted whole unit must be used. This is because with such "commando" style attack you can effectively block path of enemy retreat with very small number of troops (Example: As Japanese you invaded Port Moresby. If your ground troops are stronger enemy can be driven out. The near by, 1 HEX away, allied base is Lea Lea. If you take Lea Lea loosing enemy troops from Port Moresby will be destroyed instead of just retreating there).


Another game absurdity...like for #3. There are no 20 strength commando units in the game, so why create a unit the game was not designed for. But historically, did 20 soldiers ever capture/destroy 20,000 retreating enemy? The answer is NO, so it should be left out of the game...unless players agree between themselves to keep it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée #5 Barges (and US PT/LCx boats) can not be used in open seas. This is because such small craft can only be used on coastal routes. ALLOWED: Gili - Port Moresby, Lae - Gili Gili, "The Slot" ... DISALLOWED: Rabaul - Gili Gili, Cairns - Port Moresby, Luganville - Lunga...


An item of player preference. Barges could be many things, including local trading vessels not otherwise included in the game. Today these vessels commonly sail from Indonesia to Northern Australia to poach or land illegal immigrants; so they were capable of carrying small amounts of supplies to outlying bases in WW2.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée #6 Only one submarine can be placed in submarine Task Force. This is to simulate that automatic "Wolf Packs" were not historically used in South Pacific in 1942/1943 (UV timeframe).


As pointed out, the game only allows a single sub attack, so not sure this matters. Again, I would leave it up to the players to dedice.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée #7 Japanese Sub Doctrine OFF Fog of War ON Allied Damage Control ON Advanced Weather ON Allied/IJN Reinforcements VERY VARIABLE Allied Ship Commitment 100% IJN Ship Commitment 120%




Player preference. Jap Sub doctrine off does make the japs and US even.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée #8 All kind of night air attacks or just bombing attacks (i.e. airfield/port/ground unit air bombing) are unacceptable.



Player preference. Since the game revolves around a few turns in which major carrier/surface engagements and invasions occur, air attacks are one of the few on-going entertainments the game offers. I would certianly not omit this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mario Vallée #9 F4U's Corsair should Never operate on a US CV in UV. This is a know game bug, the US Navy did not Use F4U's from CV's untill mid 44 ifrc, certainly not withen the time frame that UV cover's.


Player preference, since what does one aircraft type matter to the game balance.


(in reply to mariovalleemtl)
Post #: 10
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/18/2004 2:00:47 AM   
mogami


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Hi, Commando raids should be allowed because recon by air only shows 11 units. The recon will never show the amount of infantry (it will show CD,Eng,AA units and stop before getting to infantry.) The only sure way of knowing what is in a hex is sending scouts. If this is too good sorry because recon just does not work. (In WITP recon gives a total troop strength for hex. It might be wrong. It looks like this "6 units 25,000 men"
Of course if there are fewer then 11 units in a hex UV recon works.

Strafing is bad in UV because of bug not because it never happened. Fixed in WITP.
(I had 4 Petes strafe Luganville at night and kill 800 men)

I'm not afraid of night attacks by Japanese bombers. Night Naval attacks should be allowed. Night attacks by 4 engine bombers should be allowed.

Guard your retreat hexes. But I agree using 20 guys is silly. But if you guard the hex it won't happen.

You mean sub patrol can only have 1 boat. More subs can be in TF for minelaying and transport.

< Message edited by Mogami -- 4/17/2004 7:05:34 PM >


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Post #: 11
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/18/2004 12:28:16 PM   
PzB74


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From: No(r)way
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I've been thinking about Corsairs and cv's a few times.
The British did put em on cv's, so it isn't done because it's impossible, must be more in the way of politics in the US Navy at the time.

So if you play a 100% historical scenario, you may agree not to put em on cv's. If a non-historical one is played, I think it's more of a possibility. If Midway didn't happen and the yanks really needed high performance ac on cv's earlier, they could have done it.

If I was CinC South Pacific, I would have demanded that they but that butcher bird on cv's asap! It's truly one efficient Zero killer.

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Post #: 12
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/18/2004 4:45:05 PM   
Rendova


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From: Atlanta
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The US Navy chose not to operate F4U's from carrier out of the teething problems of trying to figure out how to land them of carriers, but the got that straighten out and used them on carriers.... so there is nothing wrong with flying them off carriers, they were perfectly capible of doing it. It is just not the most pleasant thing for the IJN.

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Post #: 13
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/18/2004 5:08:43 PM   
Halsey

 

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It took the Brits to figure out how to do it. They changed the landing approach to a hook shaped pattern so that the pilot only lost sight of the deck just before landing. The normal straight in approach that the Americans were trained to use didn't work because the cowling on the Corsair blocked their visibility during landings. The Brits also developed landing mirrors (call the ball) and the catapult, but the two world wars trashed their economy, and they couldn't afford to ever build up the Royal Navy again. By the way mates, you ever going to pay the Americans back for that Lend Lease thingy?

< Message edited by Halsey -- 4/18/2004 9:52:37 AM >


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Post #: 14
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/18/2004 5:31:44 PM   
Rendova


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From: Atlanta
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

By the way mates, you ever going to pay the Americans back for that Lend Lease thingy?


I'll take Blair sticking his neck out for us in Iraq as payment. Our great allie.

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Post #: 15
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/18/2004 5:41:35 PM   
Halsey

 

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I concur! Their innovations in military and civilain applications more that make up for two world wars. Just a note to anyone interested: our Canadian friends to the north were the only people to pay back the war debt. So no Canook bashing on this sight please.

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Post #: 16
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/18/2004 5:43:06 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline
Perhaps including increased op losses for Corsairs operating on cv's before 44 would be the way to go?

I don't think the Russians even said 'Thx' for the lend lease supplied during the war! Guess they felt that the 20 mil dead more than made up for it. Wonder what would have happened if the Whites had won the civil war after WWI in Russia... Guess WWII would have been quite different.

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"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
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(in reply to Rendova)
Post #: 17
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/18/2004 6:14:53 PM   
Rendova


Posts: 405
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

I concur! Their innovations in military and civilain applications more that make up for two world wars. Just a note to anyone interested: our Canadian friends to the north were the only people to pay back the war debt. So no Canook bashing on this sight please.


I want to say Norway did as well, but I'll have to check

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 18
RE: "House Rules" for UV PBEM - 4/18/2004 6:16:17 PM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline
An increased op loss idea sounds like a very good idea if the US wants to use Corsairs before 1/44 on CV's. British air crews should operate normally.

Proud countries of this world rarely say thanks for anyones help. You have to admire the incentive taken to copy western technology that we didn't send our Russian friends. Uncle Joes "incentive programs" got a lot of his people to do extraordinary things. Other countries just don't want to be reminded that the Allies helped to preserve their way of life. Is what some of them don't realize, it was the right thing to do, no matter what the cost. That's what shouldn't be forgotten.

Ah yes, Norway! That wonderful country that had the only non-socialist underground in Europe. I love your sardines!

< Message edited by Halsey -- 4/18/2004 10:25:51 AM >


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(in reply to PzB74)
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