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Genetlemen, meet your enemy :)

 
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Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/14/2004 3:15:46 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Ok as with movies, sometimes it the guy that gets there first that wins eh.

Now don't get me wrong, I ain't stopped lovin WiF, but hmm, a bird in the hand eh...

This is what will be your competition me thinks.

Strategic Command 2

http://www.battlefront.com/products/sc2/index.html

It won't be global....yet, but, if it's on sale, and cWiF isn't, that distinction might get lost.

Right now my wallet is getting ready for Q4 purchase of SC2

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RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/14/2004 4:57:07 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Im over the moon and will urchase as soon as released in the UK.

However WIF will still be bought.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 2
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/14/2004 7:43:33 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		SC2 looks more like checkers, while WIF is more like chess.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 3
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/14/2004 8:58:22 PM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

SC2 looks more like checkers, while WIF is more like chess.


Pretty fair comparison. The original SC by Hubert Cater is an excellent beer and pretzels game and was quite enjoyable until you basically go to the point where the Axis would always win unless the Allies gambled everything early which meant the game was over one way or the other in '41 at latest.

SC2 looks like it will be a great step up but still is no contest with WiF. I will buy it and enjoy it for some time but cWiF will be a game we play for a decade; just like the board game.

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 4
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/14/2004 10:14:39 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I cant judge which game will be better until I play them.

I really can see enough of a market for both games and I will play both games.

Which one will be the best I think is hrd to judge at present.

I loved SC though in the end its simplicity became a minus point for me as I wanted more options. This game is giving me more than I could have wanted.

Im ver excited about both these releases and they will prob dither so much that you will enjoy them both as they will have different pluses and minus Im sure.

Also Ive played SC so I know what Im going to get in Q4 this year is going to be a great buy. As for WIF I cant judge this game as I havent played it. It hasent had a prequel nor have I played any games by this particular developer.

You could start posting in the WAW forum saying that WIF is going to be better. Me, I will buy them all Im sure.

Im grateful to Matrix for having so many good game sin the pipeline. CL and Gund of August keep my faith in PC games. But not every game they have been involved with is a classic so just because this game has there name I will not say it will be better than SC2.

< Message edited by wodin -- 4/14/2004 8:35:15 PM >

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 5
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/15/2004 12:57:02 AM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I am looking forward to both WiF and Grigsby's WAW. They represent global WWII grand strategy at two different scales. Both should be good games. Likewise, SC2 offers a different scale and scope that should complement and not compete with either of these other two titles. I wouldn't consider it an enemy.

quote:

The original SC by Hubert Cater is an excellent beer and pretzels game and was quite enjoyable until you basically go to the point where the Axis would always win unless the Allies gambled everything early which meant the game was over one way or the other in '41 at latest.


The problem has more to do with economics than anything else. Notice in WiF that european Russia only has about half of total production. In SC it was all on the european map. So Russia had more to lose and Germany had more to gain. Break across the magic line as Axis and victory is pretty much guaranteed. This is unrealistic. Also, growth rates for USSR and USA were way off and didn't simulate the historical economic growth of the Allies. So fixing the basic economics of the game should resolve this major issue. And WiF and A3R provide pretty good benchmarks.

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 6
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/15/2004 1:05:20 AM   
MButtazoni


Posts: 1494
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline 		i think WiF still underestimates and hamstrings the Western Allied economy to provide an artificial play balance.

i play the new A3R, A World at War (see sig) and it really showcases the Economy and Research capability of the Western Allies (well mostly yhe US)

for instance how many games have the mobilization and growth in the US eceonmy to actually build all the ships that the US historically did? i've only seen one... A World at War.

(ps. do not confuse Bruce HArper's A World at War boardgame with Gary Grigsby's World at War computer game)

< Message edited by MButtazoni -- 4/14/2004 5:01:02 PM >

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Post #: 7
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/15/2004 1:54:24 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		I was a keen fan of Third Reich - 4th edition rules

Is it possible to play World at War by computer?

-

(in reply to MButtazoni)
Post #: 8
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/15/2004 2:12:57 AM   
MButtazoni


Posts: 1494
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline 		if you mean A World at War, yes check out Warplanner it is was created specifically to play PBEM games of A World at War.

< Message edited by MButtazoni -- 4/14/2004 6:10:41 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/16/2004 8:08:34 AM   
benpark

 

Posts: 3884
Joined: 8/12/2002
Status: offline 		Give that World at War game a decent AI, and that would be the answer to most people's hopes-mine at least.

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(in reply to MButtazoni)
Post #: 10
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/16/2004 4:10:35 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		It would be nice to see A World at War made fully computer (not requiring Warplanner).

What is not being said, and it is important, is A World at War retails for 175 bucks US (plus shipping).
And it is just a board game.

I have the earlier incarnation known as Advanced Third Reich. Never got to play Rising Sun.
I might like to get Prados revamped A3R, but 175 bucks is a loooooooong way away for most people (for a board game). Heck you can even get into ASL easier than that if you plan it right.

Buying the World in Flames board game is also no walk in the park of course.
But both would benefit from a more typically priced computer version.

There is always a thresshold which can be asked of the market.

I think a lot of people are going to be happy paying to play Gary's game, or Hubert's.
Both won't be requiring a couple of hundred bucks.

If they can make cWiF fly, I think it will also make a big difference where dollars and cents are concerned.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to benpark)
Post #: 11
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/16/2004 4:21:22 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline 		Les,

You have HTTR but you have never said whether you like it or not

-


Joe

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 12
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/16/2004 4:54:27 PM   
MButtazoni


Posts: 1494
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Milwaukee, WI
Status: offline
quote:

What is not being said, and it is important, is A World at War retails for 175 bucks US (plus shipping).
And it is just a board game.


it is worth every penny of the $175. i have never enjoyed a game more than i do AWAW, it is a game i will still be playing 15 years from now.

DO NOT bother with Avanlanche Press's Third Reich. You refer to it as John Prados's remake but it just has his name on it. It is a horrible, frustrating, kinda ugly, incomplete game. (can you tell i don't like it?)

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Post #: 13
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/16/2004 5:31:50 PM   
elmo3

 

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
Status: offline 		This could be a great year for WWII strategic level games. Played the SC demo but it never grabbed me. SC2 sounds like it has enough enhancements for me to take another look. Grigsby's game will get my money though if it comes out first and gets good reviews. Never played WiF so it's the dark horse for me and if it releases after either or both of the other two it has little chance with me. AWAW looks interesting but not a chance at $175. Only enough hours in my day, and money in the budget, for one strategic level game this year. Decisions, decisions...

(in reply to MButtazoni)
Post #: 14
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/16/2004 10:37:04 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Joe, I bought it (HTTR) hence I like it hehe, now in a years time, I might like it "more" :)

I have not heard much about Prados game out of Avalanche actually MButtazoni. I have only noticed it looked like it had a graphical facelift counterwise. Beyond that, I am in the dark.

I am assuming it might be 175 bucks well spent (A World at War), but it remains 175 bucks hehe.

When you compare 175 bucks for a board game (regardless of how good), with a computer wargame of a similar sort of setting and complexity that will retail on average for 50 bucks, it is a hard target to convince the casual looker to buy the board game.

Having Warplanner suporting it is of course a perk. But for 175 bucks, I would almost want that game shipped with the Warplanner software included hehe.

I don't think for instance, that just because ASL has VASL available to it, that it makes the current pricing of ASL modules out of MMP any less painful.
And yes, I am on record as saying that MMP needs to find ways to lower the cost, or they might just have to accept they will never achieve large levels of sales ever (Armies of Oblivion retailing for 112 bucks is the same as making me choose something else for my wargaming fix).

I would like to game the WHOLE of WW2 in a single game, but in the end, I might also have to just accept I can't.

I am currently waiting for War in the Pacific to be finished to scratch the need for a game in the Pacific at the theatre level.
I think it and SC2 might be every bit as good as playing one single design that offers the whole world in one go.

Europe and the Pacific were such entirely differing manners of warfare, that often you get a better game when you just pick one of the other.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
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Post #: 15
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 4/17/2004 3:49:16 AM   
Fred98


Posts: 4430
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

I would like to game the WHOLE of WW2 in a single game,

Europe and the Pacific were such entirely differing manners of warfare, that often you get a better game when you just pick one of the other.


Les, the upcoming War In the Pacific, will game half of WW2. And will do it very well.

Unfortunately the game engine is not really suitable for land warfare. If it were, your dream would come true and we could game ALL of WW2 - and have options for production.

If there were ever a "UV in the Med" that would go a part of the way there.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 16
SC2 ? - 4/19/2004 12:25:12 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Loved the counters... reminded me of Axis and Allies.

The description of enhancements over SC1 gave me the same feeling.

I'd say that SC2 and Grigsbys WaW are comparable but CWiF is in an entirely seperate ballpark. Both sections of the market are valid and viable but there is a heck of a difference between them.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 17
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 5/15/2004 4:34:41 PM   
justanAVGwifplayer

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/15/2004
Status: offline 		naaa,,, i wouldnt touch this game. where are the rail line,or resourses that make wif such a stratgic game,,i dont see any in the screenshots,,,,
i like the comparasion to checkers & chess
i prefer chess.!
IMHO.


justanAVGwifplayer

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 18
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 6/5/2004 8:39:29 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		I'm also looking forward to WiFC and GGWaW. I'd love to see a PC port of "A World at War" as well.

Anyone know whether ASL will ever make it to the PC? HTTR is great and all, but every now and again I get a hankering to play an insanely-detailed turn-based tactical game, and that would be ASL. :)

(in reply to justanAVGwifplayer)
Post #: 19
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 6/6/2004 8:31:02 PM   
Mziln


Posts: 1107
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Status: offline 		Avalon Hill, a division of Monarch Avalon, was disbanded in the summer of 1998 when Monarch Avalon decided to get out of the gaming industry. Hasbro Games purchased the rights to the AH games and back inventory and the name "Avalon Hill."

Hasbro released the computer game "Squald Leader" by Microprose on 10/24/2000. It has very bad reviews.

Did Hasbro buy the entire Avalon Hill line?

Yes. Some individual games, however, were licensed to interested publishers. In particular, the entire Squad Leader/Advanced Squad Leader series was licensed to Multi-Man Publishing, along with Bitter Woods, Up Front, Siege of Jerusalem, Brittania, the Great Campaigns of the Civil War series, Patton's Best, Breakout: Normandy, Wrasslin', Panzerblitz, and Panzer Leader.

You might want to e-mail Multi-Man Publishing to find out.

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 20
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 6/6/2004 11:45:01 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Thanks. Yep, I've spent some time poking around the MMP website; not much info about a possible computer port there. Maybe I will e-mail them as you suggest.

(in reply to Mziln)
Post #: 21
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 6/7/2004 6:25:37 PM   
Mziln


Posts: 1107
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Status: offline 		You might want to try "Steel Panthers" which you can download here at Matrix. It is very similar to ASL.

I find the Pacific theater much more challenging than the European theater.

Thanks Matrix for the upgrades.

< Message edited by Mziln -- 6/7/2004 4:27:42 PM >

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 22
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 6/7/2004 8:38:12 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Yes, I've played Steel Panthers. Great fun. But not nearly as detailed and wonky as ASL. :)

(in reply to Mziln)
Post #: 23
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 6/7/2004 9:05:01 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Grotius, if you want to get a good interactive experience for ASL, I suggest Warfare HQs forums for ASL.

http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

One of the regulars there (Keith Dalton), is an official vice of MMP.

You might find out a lot of interesting things over there.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 24
RE: Genetlemen, meet your enemy :) - 6/9/2004 6:18:15 PM   
Mziln


Posts: 1107
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Yes, I've played Steel Panthers. Great fun. But not nearly as detailed and wonky as ASL. :)


Main Entry: won·ky
Pronunciation: 'wä[ng]-kE
Function: adjective
Etymology: probably alteration of English dialect wankle, from Middle English wankel, from Old English wancol; akin to Old High German wankOn to totter -- more at WENCH
1 British : UNSTEADY, SHAKY
2 British : AWRY, WRONG

Wonky

Thanks Sarge I did the VASL download.

< Message edited by Mziln -- 6/9/2004 4:22:52 PM >

(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 25
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