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RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06

 
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RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/26/2004 2:36:29 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		Right now Vanilla 1.06 has a better AI than Core or Super AI.

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The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

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Post #: 31
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/26/2004 4:40:36 PM   
Sleeping_Dragon


Posts: 602
Joined: 8/21/2003
From: Raleigh NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Von Rom
Everything was fine until the USA entered the war. There was no expected military build-up. Instead, the USA showed up everywhere in force. By Dec/41 the Americans had already taken Italy!



Just wondering... Do you know if the US took a historical path or did they get off on some ahistorical tangent (like Landon winning the election). If it's a roughly historical path then this is bad. If something happened that was majorly ahistorical, I could live with it. I like to see how 'the path not taken' plays out, else every game would be 'the same' and you'd lose some of the flavor IMO)

Still haven't bought this title, but really enjoyed EU2. Have been waiting for the 'bugs' to be squashed... and if the price drops in the meantime... good.

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Power does not corrupt; It merely attracts the corruptable.

AKA: Bblue

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 32
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/26/2004 4:58:18 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

Right now Vanilla 1.06 has a better AI than Core or Super AI.


That's good news. I'll have to give it a try on its own.

Cheers!

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Post #: 33
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/26/2004 5:08:26 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sleeping_Dragon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Von Rom
Everything was fine until the USA entered the war. There was no expected military build-up. Instead, the USA showed up everywhere in force. By Dec/41 the Americans had already taken Italy!



Just wondering... Do you know if the US took a historical path or did they get off on some ahistorical tangent (like Landon winning the election). If it's a roughly historical path then this is bad. If something happened that was majorly ahistorical, I could live with it. I like to see how 'the path not taken' plays out, else every game would be 'the same' and you'd lose some of the flavor IMO)

Still haven't bought this title, but really enjoyed EU2. Have been waiting for the 'bugs' to be squashed... and if the price drops in the meantime... good.



I haven't tried vanilla v1.06 HoI yet. Will do that soon.

I played HoI v1.06 with CORE.

There are a few problems with CORE though:

1) Republcans seem to win Spanish Civil War

2) Yugoslavia goes fascist.

3) River penalties are way too high

4) Very difficult for Japan to make in-roads into China, etc.

5) Problems with Axis organizing for Barbarossa.


The USA:

This problem is in CORE - doesn't seem to be in vanilla HoI.

FDR won election. Problem is CORE has USA enter war with FULL military capability, so that it takes Italy by 1942. There should be a gradual build-up. Vanilla HoI doesn't seem to have this problem.

In vanilla HoI v1.06, if you play Germany, be prepared to meet a monster USSR army. I have read where Stalin sometimes has 500 divisions waiting for the "Bad Boys of Blitzkrieg".

This has humbled even some veteran players.

It seems HoI is now a tougher challenge for those playing as Germany. And yes, the Allies will invade Europe.
Cheers!

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Post #: 34
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/26/2004 5:39:59 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline 		Here are some bugs still present in v1.06 HoI:


http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140619


http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141143

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Post #: 35
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/27/2004 6:00:30 AM   
yamaslob

 

Posts: 28
Joined: 2/11/2004
Status: offline 		I have to ask if they fixed the problem with re-depolying units. Do you still have to move army's each division at a time and then reselect the leader and then form them into an army again? A huge waste of time and a real pain in the arse...thanks in advance.

yamaslob

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 36
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/27/2004 10:43:58 AM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		The problem for CORE is that they rebuild the tech-tree completely, they added thousands of new events and they added lots and lots of new units. This is all very good for the historical flavor, but it does put some high stress on the AI, because the AI was/is designed for vanilla. That means that the CORE guys need to build their own AI too, and that takes time. HoI 1.06 is a very big change from 1.05 in many key areas. For example the naval system. There are alot of new parameters added to how the naval system works, and also how the admiral AI thinks. CORE 0.8 is built for 1.06, but since there are many new mechanism changes in 1.06, the CORE AI guys have not yet figured out all the parameters and how to make them work in CORE.

Yamaslob, no if you strat redeploy units, you will have to move then one by one and then reselect leader. This will not change. In real life, it is very hard, not to say impossible, to keep any sort of divisional cohesion during a train move, not to mention any corps-cohesion. A division moving by train usually does so in several separate train sets, and the move usually takes weeks or even months. One example of this would be when Das Reich moved from France to Russia in late 42/early 43. That move took several months, where the first units from teh DF regiment arrived in December 42 (I think it was) and the last parts of the division arrived just in time for the Charkow battles in April.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to yamaslob)
Post #: 37
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/28/2004 7:50:45 AM   
critter


Posts: 139
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		let us know what u think. Ive been reading ur aar's Looks pretty good. Be sure and let us know what patches you had installed. I

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 38
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/28/2004 4:16:46 PM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline
quote:


Yamaslob, no if you strat redeploy units, you will have to move then one by one and then reselect leader. This will not change. In real life, it is very hard, not to say impossible, to keep any sort of divisional cohesion during a train move, not to mention any corps-cohesion. A division moving by train usually does so in several separate train sets, and the move usually takes weeks or even months. One example of this would be when Das Reich moved from France to Russia in late 42/early 43. That move took several months, where the first units from teh DF regiment arrived in December 42 (I think it was) and the last parts of the division arrived just in time for the Charkow battles in April.


panzerjäger: this is always represented by the org hit units get from redeploy. the way it is now it is only 1 more frustrating examples of the bad UI of HOI. too much micromanaging ( okay, i usually let march armies because i think the strat. redeploy is some kind of exploit. only slow infantry armies i redeploy )

(in reply to Hortlund)
Post #: 39
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/28/2004 4:18:33 PM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		von rom: i would be interested in reading your opinion for the 2 other major mods like super AI bundle and the starfire mod. if you have time to play it, i can only spare the the time in the moment for 1 core game.

i played stony road some time ago and didn´t like it so much.

(in reply to Frank W.)
Post #: 40
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/28/2004 5:38:37 PM   
Hortlund


Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline 		The org hit is only 50% hardly something that represents the complete and total disorganization any division would experience during a rail-move.

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to Frank W.)
Post #: 41
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/28/2004 5:52:10 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank W.

von rom: i would be interested in reading your opinion for the 2 other major mods like super AI bundle and the starfire mod. if you have time to play it, i can only spare the the time in the moment for 1 core game.

i played stony road some time ago and didn´t like it so much.


It looks like both the Super AI and Starfire Mods are still works in progress. Check out some of the comments on both at the Paradox Forums.

I think one of the biggest obstacles here is that every time a new patch comes out, these Mods have to be tweaked to work with the new changes, which don't always work too well, IMO.

Once the patching for HoI ends, then these mods can fully mature and tweak the game the way it should be played.

Cheers!

_____________________________


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Post #: 42
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/30/2004 3:53:23 PM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		I too have played the 1.06 HOI patch and finally HOI is a game worth playing. Shame it took over a year and a half to give us what should have been inside the box, so I still give Paradox bad marks for non-quality games out of the box.

But, at any rate the amphibious invasions by the UK and USA and allies are a welcome site. I usually play Brazil and now they have programmed the AI of other countries to defend Argentina and Venzuala when I attack them with Brazil, this too is a welcome site, no more easy over-runs of these two countries unless I manage an armored sweep very early in the game. Heh, I had to offer peace in one game, the USA landed in force on my northern provinces and setup a navy just outside my main coastal port province.

Vanilla HOI 1.06 is much better than the CORE v8.0 at the moment. I think the fellas at CORE try to go overboard adding too much to a game that doesn't need it. The more the AI has to deal with in computer games, the worse it gets IMHO. I still believe in K.I.S.S. when it comes to the AI (keep it simple stupid). ;)

Overall the AI plays a much better game, on hard/aggressive I had enough problems with it playing as Brazil to enjoy the whole game, though I never reached the european war, lol, I spent too much time just trying to defeat Argentina. I need their resources damnit. In older versions of HOI I could take out Argentina and Venzuala in a matter of a years time and then build up large divisional forces an invade Spain and Northern Africa before 1941, lol. Not any more.

HOI with 1.06 patch is worth another look for any that have nixed the game or put it in the dust bin. But, for now I would stay away from CORE and other mods, they just aren't ready for HOI 1.06.

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 4/30/2004 8:56:30 AM >

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 43
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/30/2004 6:43:40 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline
quote:

can be tweaked so that the game can be adjusted to play the way you want it to


yes I plan to re-install it now, after all that dust gathering while waiting for the product to be patched sufficiently

first thing, gotta get rid of that idiotic PC german flag on the counters. :)

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 44
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 4/30/2004 11:26:18 PM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		okay, i play germany with 1.06 and core...

here is a pic from the final battle of poland.

after taking the capitel ( this was the last vic points
province from poland ) i was able to annex.

note that my poland campaign started in march 1940.

after that i took denmark, belgium and france. i wanted
to spare holland but some belgian divs retreated to their
territory ( military access probably ) so they also were
taken out. after that i decided to ally with italy and bulgaria.
hungaria was already in the axis.

as usual the italians wasted their fleet, i treid to prevend
that with taking over mil. control over them, but the fleets
mostly don´t obey my orders and still sail into death. the italian navy has 8 trp, 2 BB, 1 CA, 2 SS...left, britain
suffered severe losses mostly from JU88 attacks, my 2 u-boat
flottilas in the med were quite useless because subs are not
as dangerous in core like in the vanilla game.

i took over yugoslawia and greece next, so i have ports in the
med.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Frank W. -- 4/30/2004 10:33:28 PM >

(in reply to Frank W.)
Post #: 45
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 5/1/2004 12:09:14 AM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		okay, it´s now the end of 41.

we decided to share some of our territory and create serbia.

( why ? i don´t know probably i´m just a generous german führer )

we consider:

germany has: poland,denmark,belgium,hol,lux,france, yugo,greece

allies: hun,ser,vichy,bul...also we welcomed 2 new members with iraq and saudi arabia ( better would be to conquer them for the oil, but i fear the russian bear to much, weaking the eastern poland border is a grave mistake in 1.06 i learned from a earlier game ).

as the wehrmacht is quite weak compared to the russians, we decide to fortify he east poland provs and station our good defensive inf there ( ca. 40% with engineer brigades with give defensive and movement bonus ).

the russians have taken over the baltic states without fight and threaten the finnish but no war there still. i´m waiting daily for the russian DOW. i think that i not invited rumania into the axis helps me here, because i beleive this the russians see as their influence. also the crap rumanian units are not able to stop the russian steamroller i learned from earlier games.

the US entered the war in the meantime. they send some B17´s, that do not much damage, they are mostly intercepted, but often bomb some provs which have weak flak as in poland or east prussia. british quite stopped their night bombing, after i alomst annihalated 4 lancaster squadrons. i believe they build up and then send them again.

US landed in cherbourgh 2 or 3 times with too weak forces, my strategic panzer reserve ( only 2 MKIV divs ) always reached the landing point early enough to spoil the fun for the yanks.

as my land forces are too weak on mech and tank units i decided not to start barbarossa. instead the italians and me took some med islands ( crete, rhodos etc.. ) and prepare for the run to suez. but from the other side: we bring through troop transports to the near east ( we land in syria ). the remaining italian fleet fights valiantly. severall time sour covois in the eastern med are intercepted by adm. cunningham. luckily we have just build up the luftwaffe and even were able to retool all tac. bombing squadron to JU88. they have good naval attack, together with 10 stuka sq. and 5 italian sq. we manage to rout the british fleet out of the area mostly.

we finally push away the weak syrian and british resitance. we annex syria. we use iraqian and italian troops to guard the beaches there.

we finally reach the suez canal, rommel + manstein ( the onyl 2 german panzer divs. involved in this campaign , the rest are italians + 2 or 3 german inf divs ) force the egypt goverment to throw the british out of their lands and enjoy the benefits of german occupation.

british , french and canadian forces in the area are pushed back to the tobruk pocket where graziani along with 7 divs was encircled earlier but managed to hold out. also there was a smaller pocket under badoglio with 3 div´s. both forces did a great job to hold out till the axis forces arrive from the east.

the pic you see is the final battle, 14 allied divs encircled and destroyed.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to Frank W.)
Post #: 46
RE: Extrem short AAR of HoI 1.06 - 5/1/2004 7:14:36 PM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline 		Boy, I'll have to go dig my CD out and try it. I love the new counters, those look great. Didn't someone say you could install those separately from the CORE mod?

(in reply to Frank W.)
Post #: 47
Herats of Iron 2 announced! - 5/4/2004 2:33:37 PM   
Kung Karl

 

Posts: 323
Joined: 7/1/2003
Status: offline 		Herats of Iron 2 announced!

http://www.paradoxplaza.com/news.asp?ArticleID=159&Page=News

(in reply to NefariousKoel)
Post #: 48
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