An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!!

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!!

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An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 2:39:15 PM

Luskan

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline

Well I know you've all be waiting, and here it is. The Beta AAR to end all AARs (please sticky!).

The scenario is simple, WITP is an untested, lush, green game of opportunity and exploits, and hopefully Raver and I are going to iron out a sensible game balance for the big scenario.

I've spent months perfecting my opening moves - of course, so has Raver. I tried the slow approach - that sucked. I tried the fast approach, and let me tell you, that sucked even worse. So I'm hoping for a middle of the road approach as I lead the IJN into the fray once more.

Surprise is on, and the new vary option is off for the moment.

Raver and I are old enemies - and short term I have three simple goals.

1. Carnage (to the USN side).
2. Oil for my economy ASAP (literally. I'm doing anything short of attacking the ruskies).
3. Try to trap as many of Raver's precious early war troops in the P.I. and of course Malaya. Last time Raver managed to steal about half the aussies from Malaya and this really caused me strategic level problems with force allocation.

Yes I will be hitting every port on the map this turn, and I'm going after the airfields (and those crazy b17s next turn - I forget the guy who had the anti-b17 thing in the UV forums . . . But I suspect he is going to have a fit of apoplexy).

Stay tuned, because I'm going to be declaring war on the allies by smacking the **** out of pearl harbour any minute now.

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

Post #: 1

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 3:20:41 PM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline

This guy is such an idiot ! As if he could EVER get the upper hand over me. I tell you, these jap fanboys are all the same...full of piss-and-vinegar and little else! Bring it on ratbrain!

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Luskan)

Post #: 2

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 3:25:02 PM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline

Oh yeah........and I nearly forgot................

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Raverdave)

Post #: 3

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 3:27:11 PM

Luskan

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline

Your marvin look-a-like is no match for my banana. Need I say more?

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

(in reply to Raverdave)

Post #: 4

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 3:40:29 PM

Luskan

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline

You're going to need to send the turn back now . . . anxious to see what damage I've done.

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

(in reply to Luskan)

Post #: 5

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 5:17:17 PM

Luskan

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline

Can you say BITCH SLAPPING?????

I remember this punching bag - seems my first turn went really really right, and Frag, wherever you are, eat your bloody heart out.

I was tempted to try for the "split KB into 3 groups and then stab at points in the atlantic to intercept Raver's weak CVs" but 99 times out of 100 it doesn't work.

However I rearranged my hits on pearl, singapore and manila. I actually cut down the bombers a little, and put all zeros to escort (except at pearl - zeros sent after the airfields, and all the bombers sent to BB row.). The results speak for themselves.

Easily the best first turn i've ever pulled off, and I hope you allied fanboys cry yourselves to sleep tonight! MWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!!!!!

I'm sure Raver will confirm that I sank PoW, probably Repulse, and 4 Bbs at pearl.

Of course I did take losses - 1 dd sunk already, a few other dds are badly messed up and a bb and CA are bruised enough that I'm sending them back to tokyo. Things couldn'y be going better.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 12/07/41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 26,45

Japanese Ships
PG Hashidate
PC Shonan Maru #7
PC Shonan Maru #6
PG Sozan Maru
PG Muro Maru
PG Uji
PG Eiko Maru
PG Eifuku Maru
PG Saga
DD Kari
DD Kiji

Allied Ships
SS KXII

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 26,45

Japanese Ships
AP Mogamigawa Maru
PC Ch 7
PG Tatsumiya Maru
MSW W.2
MSW W.1
PC Shimushu

Allied Ships
SS KXII, hits 2, on fire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Singapore , at 23,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
G3M Nell x 97

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 16 destroyed, 48 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 10 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Isis, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Electra, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Mauritius, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Express, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
5 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
14 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
14 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
6 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
10 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
2 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
2 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Manila , at 43,52

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 99
G3M Nell x 34
G4M1 Betty x 46

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 9 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 12 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 12 destroyed

Allied Ships
SS Seadragon, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Shark, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PG Asheville, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Porpoise, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Searaven, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD John D. Ford, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Sailfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Pike, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS S-37, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Swordfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Sealion, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Snapper, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Paz, Torpedo hits 1
SS Salmon, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AV Langley, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Permit, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
SS S-40, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Skipjack, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Whippoorwill, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
11 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
11 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
6 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
6 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
2 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
6 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Manila , at 43,52

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged

Allied Ships
SS Shark, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Pope, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Sailfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Pickerel, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 112
D3A Val x 133
B5N Kate x 143

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1
P-26A x 8
P-36A Mohawk x 4
P-40B Tomahawk x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 8 destroyed, 9 damaged
D3A Val: 8 destroyed, 51 damaged
B5N Kate: 15 destroyed, 29 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 11 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-26A: 16 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 34 destroyed, 21 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 48 destroyed, 42 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 25 destroyed, 16 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 3 destroyed, 9 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 20 destroyed, 8 damaged
PBY Catalina: 36 destroyed, 53 damaged
A-20B Boston: 7 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CA Minneapolis, Bomb hits 1
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 11, on fire
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Helm, Bomb hits 1
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Henley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Cassin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Farragut, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Monaghan, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Montgomery, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Turkey, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
104 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 29
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 105

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
18 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
27 x B5N Kate bombing at 15000 feet
19 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
22 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
23 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
17 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
18 x B5N Kate bombing at 15000 feet
18 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
18 x B5N Kate bombing at 15000 feet
27 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
27 x B5N Kate bombing at 15000 feet
27 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
24 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Changsha , at 47,36

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 10
Ki-30 Ann x 6

no losses

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Ki-30 Ann bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Hong Kong , at 43,42

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 9
Ki-21 Sally x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 1 damaged

Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Khota Bharu , at 24,45

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 14
Ki-21 Sally x 16
Ki-48 Lily x 34

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48 Lily: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 8

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
16 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
16 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Batan Island , at 47,47

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 24
Ki-30 Ann x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-30 Ann: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-30 Ann bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Khota Bharu at 24,45

Allied aircraft
Blenheim I x 13

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim I: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Jintsu
BB Haruna

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Blenheim I bombing at 15000 feet
9 x Blenheim I bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Khota Bharu at 24,45

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 6

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Mikuma
CA Kumano

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Khota Bharu at 24,45

Allied aircraft
Swordfish x 8
Buffalo I x 26
Blenheim IV x 9

no losses

Japanese Ships
PG Sozan Maru
AP Teia Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Kasasagi

Japanese ground losses:
13 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Blenheim IV bombing at 15000 feet
4 x Swordfish bombing at 5000 feet
4 x Swordfish bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Aparri at 46,49

Allied aircraft
P-26A x 9
P-40B Tomahawk x 9
P-40E Warhawk x 9
B-17C Fortress x 5

no losses

Japanese Ships
CL Kuma

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Brunei at 32,57

Allied aircraft
Brewster 339D x 3
Martin 139 x 3

no losses

Japanese Ships
AP Haguro Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Miri at 31,57

Allied aircraft
Brewster 339D x 3
Martin 139 x 3

no losses

Japanese Ships
AP Kaihei Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Davao at 41,61

Allied aircraft
B-17C Fortress x 6

no losses

Japanese Ships
AP Shoho Maru, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Kendari at 33,71

Allied aircraft
Brewster 339D x 3
Hudson I x 6

no losses

Japanese Ships
AK Higari Maru
PC Nichi Maru #1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Kendari at 33,71

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 3

no losses

Japanese Ships
AK Katsurahama Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Khota Bharu at 24,45

Allied aircraft
Blenheim I x 3
Hudson I x 9

no losses

Japanese Ships
MSW W.1
AP Asama Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Blenheim I bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 23,50

Allied aircraft
Vildebeest IV x 28
Blenheim IV x 6

Allied aircraft losses
Vildebeest IV: 8 destroyed, 24 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Torpedo hits 1
BB Ise
BB Fuso, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Hyuga
BB Nagato

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Vildebeest IV launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x Vildebeest IV launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x Vildebeest IV launching torpedoes at 200 feet
6 x Blenheim IV bombing at 15000 feet
2 x Vildebeest IV launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x Vildebeest IV launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x Vildebeest IV launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x Vildebeest IV launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x Vildebeest IV launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x Vildebeest IV launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 23,50

Allied aircraft
Blenheim I x 6
Hudson I x 3

no losses

Japanese Ships
BB Fuso, on fire
BB Nagato
BB Ise

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Blenheim I bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Blenheim I bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 23,50

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 3

no losses

Japanese Ships
CL Kitakami

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Hudson I bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 23,50

Allied aircraft
Blenheim I x 3

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim I: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Blenheim I bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 23,50

Allied aircraft
Brewster 339D x 2
Martin 139 x 7

Allied aircraft losses
Martin 139: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga
BB Fuso, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 15000 feet
4 x Martin 139 bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 23,50

Allied aircraft
Martin 139 x 15

Allied aircraft losses
Martin 139: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Fuso, on fire
BB Hyuga
BB Yamashiro

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 15000 feet
4 x Martin 139 bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 15000 feet
2 x Martin 139 bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Batan Island at 47,47

Allied aircraft
B-17C Fortress x 3

Allied aircraft losses
B-17C Fortress: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
APD APD-1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 23,50

Allied aircraft
Martin 139 x 3

no losses

Japanese Ships
DD Sanae, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Khota Bharu, at 24,45

Allied aircraft

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Hibiki
DD Akatsuki
DD Arashio
DD Michishio
DD Oshio
DD Asashio
CL Jintsu
CA Atago
CA Takao
BB Haruna
BB Kongo

Allied ground losses:
507 casualties reported
Guns lost 12

Airbase hits 13
Airbase supply hits 8
Runway hits 61
Port hits 12
Port fuel hits 3
Port supply hits 24

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Guam, at 62,66

Japanese Ships
DD Yuzuki
DD Kikuzuki
DD Uzuki
DD Oboro
CA Kako
CA Furutaka
CA Kinugasa
CA Aoba

Allied Ships
MSW Penguin, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 6
Port hits 2
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Batan Island, at 47,47

Japanese Ships
DD Inazuma
DD Ikazuchi

Allied ground losses:
28 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Runway hits 5
Port supply hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Khota Bharu, at 24,45

Allied aircraft

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
DD Hagikaze
DD Arashi
DD Nowaki
DD Maikaze
CA Kumano
CA Suzuya
CA Mikuma
CA Mogami

Allied ground losses:
221 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 39
Port hits 7
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 11

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Vigan, at 44,49

Japanese Ships
DD Samidare
DD Yudachi
DD Harusame
DD Murasame
DD Asagumo
DD Minegumo
DD Natsugumo
CL Naka

Allied ground losses:
129 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 36
Port hits 8
Port fuel hits 6
Port supply hits 13

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Legaspi, at 44,55

Japanese Ships
DD Shiokaze
DD Suzukaze
DD Umikaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Yamakaze
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Yukikaze
CL Nagara

Allied ground losses:
53 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 10
Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Aparri, at 46,49

Japanese Ships
DD Hatakaze
DD Harukaze
DD Nagatsuki
DD Fumizuki
DD Minazuki
DD Satsuki
CL Natori

Allied ground losses:
142 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 30
Port hits 4
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 13

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Aparri, at 46,49

Japanese Ships
DD Matsukaze
DD Asakaze
CL Kuma
CA Ashigara
CA Maya

Allied ground losses:
88 casualties reported

Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 8
Port hits 7
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 11

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Singapore, at 23,50 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Allied aircraft

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IV: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Vildebeest IV: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged
Buffalo I: 6 destroyed, 4 damaged
Catalina I: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

54 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
CL Kinu, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Wakatake, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Yukaze, on fire
DD Yakaze, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Sawakaze, Shell hits 1
DD Mikazuki, on fire, heavy damage
CL Oi
CL Kitakami
BB Nagato
BB Fuso, on fire
BB Yamashiro
BB Hyuga
BB Ise

Allied Ships
BC Repulse, Shell hits 35, on fire, heavy damage
AP Kanimba, Shell hits 1, on fire
CL Mauritius, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CL Danae, Shell hits 1

Allied ground losses:
1187 casualties reported
Guns lost 10
Vehicles lost 2

Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 8

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 16 troops unloading over beach at Wake Island, 82,63

Coastal Guns at Wake Island, 82,63, firing at TF 16
TF 16 troops unloading over beach at Wake Island, 82,63

204 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
CL Tenryu, on fire
DD Oite

Japanese ground losses:
87 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 17 troops unloading over beach at Khota Bharu, 24,45

Coastal Guns at Khota Bharu, 24,45, firing at TF 17
TF 17 troops unloading over beach at Khota Bharu, 24,45

4097 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
DD Kamo
DD Kiji
DD Kari
DD Kasasagi

Japanese ground losses:
1171 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 20 troops unloading over beach at Guam, 62,66

TF 20 troops unloading over beach at Guam, 62,66

Japanese ground losses:
297 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 43 troops unloading over beach at Brunei, 32,57

Coastal Guns at Brunei, 32,57, firing at TF 43
TF 43 troops unloading over beach at Brunei, 32,57

663 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
AK Sagara Maru
AP Hakusika Maru
AP Gosei Maru
AP Choko Maru, Shell hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
943 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 44 troops unloading over beach at Miri, 31,57

TF 44 troops unloading over beach at Miri, 31,57

Japanese ground losses:
152 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 57 troops unloading over beach at Davao, 41,61

Coastal Guns at Davao, 41,61, firing at TF 57
TF 57 troops unloading over beach at Davao, 41,61

3556 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.
Japanese Ships
AK Nichizui Maru, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Hayabusa, Shell hits 2
AP Kiyozumi Maru, Shell hits 3
AP Huso Maru, Shell hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
1693 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 62 troops unloading over beach at Kendari, 33,71

TF 62 troops unloading over beach at Kendari, 33,71

Japanese ground losses:
964 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 87 troops unloading over beach at Aparri, 46,49

TF 87 troops unloading over beach at Aparri, 46,49

Japanese ground losses:
221 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 88 troops unloading over beach at Vigan, 44,49

TF 88 troops unloading over beach at Vigan, 44,49

Japanese ground losses:
194 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 89 troops unloading over beach at Legaspi, 44,55

TF 89 troops unloading over beach at Legaspi, 44,55

Japanese ground losses:
143 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 90 troops unloading over beach at Batan Island, 47,47

TF 90 troops unloading over beach at Batan Island, 47,47

Japanese ground losses:
84 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Nanchang

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 25007 troops, 251 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 7457 troops, 51 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 15 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
88 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Allied ground losses:
165 casualties reported
Guns lost 4

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Khota Bharu

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4689 troops, 42 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 15370 troops, 160 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Davao

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2953 troops, 27 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 16537 troops, 58 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Wake Island

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1347 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 1504 troops, 15 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese ground losses:
93 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

(in reply to Luskan)

Post #: 6

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 5:39:33 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

Kill the Banana Raverdale.......get it!!!!!! DO IT!!!!!!!!

_____________________________

(in reply to Luskan)

Post #: 7

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 5:51:04 PM

Mike Scholl

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline

Well you certainly had a remarkable start. But to me it looks as if the game
parameters are being rediculously generous to the Japanese. You seem
to have sailed your "battleline" from the Inland Sea to Singapore on the AM
of the 7th! Either that, or assuming a more realistic rate of progress, they've
been sailing south for a 10 days in heavily trafficed sea-lanes and you are STILL
asble to claim a "suprise bonus"? I can certainly understand your satisfaction,
but I think Matrix has got a bit of "trimming" to do on your "potential" if they
are to make any claim of an "historical" simulation.

(in reply to Luskan)

Post #: 8

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 6:30:35 PM

TIMJOT

Posts: 1822
Joined: 4/30/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Luskan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Singapore , at 23,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
G3M Nell x 97

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 16 destroyed, 48 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 10 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Isis, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Electra, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Mauritius, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Express, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
5 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
14 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
14 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
6 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
10 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
2 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
2 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Manila , at 43,52

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 99
G3M Nell x 34
G4M1 Betty x 46

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 9 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 12 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 12 destroyed

Allied Ships
SS Seadragon, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Shark, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PG Asheville, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Porpoise, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Searaven, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD John D. Ford, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Sailfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Pike, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS S-37, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Swordfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Sealion, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Snapper, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Paz, Torpedo hits 1
SS Salmon, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AV Langley, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Permit, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
SS S-40, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Skipjack, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Whippoorwill, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
11 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
11 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
6 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
6 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
2 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
6 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Manila , at 43,52

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged

Allied Ships
SS Shark, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Pope, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Sailfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Pickerel, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO,NO,NO,NO

I am no Allied Fanboy, but I really hate this. Its doubley frustrateding because it has been evident from the first AARs of Alpha testing to the now Beta version. Truth be told I dont care if every ship at PH is hit or if the BB Penn. is struck by 12 torps in drydock because in some alternate universe I can dream up some sort of convoluted logic for it. BUT Betty's "TORP" attacking Singapore Naval Base and Cavite Naval Base strains all believability. It was phsyically I-M-P-O-S-S-I-B-L-E. Not to mention that since the allied player is not able to order these units out of port on turn one, apparently these attacks MUST have taken place in the early morning DARKNESS of the 8th, which makes it even more ludicrous. There is no problem with Betty or Nells level bombing ships in these ports on turn one. The IJN did do this multiple times (though with little effect ) but allowing torp bombing is going to make it next to impossible (without house rules) to get anything close to the historical situaltion on turn one. I mean what IJN player wouldnt take a free shot at POW, Repulse and all the other naval assets on turn one?

I realise that at this point torp bombing ports are here to stay, BUT at least giving the time difference and the resulting forwarning shouldnt non PH naval units be allowed to move on the first phase of turn one? That would at least give the allied player a chance to mitagate the possibility of the above posted unrealistic result. Personally as an IJN player I would feel like I was cheating if I chose to Torp attack Singapore and Manila on turn one.

I apologize for the tersness of this post but I really really hate this.

(in reply to Luskan)

Post #: 9

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 6:40:01 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

Relax Timjot

3 ways to deal with it.

1) historical turn only

2) house rule. In my last AAR i let my opponent do anything he wanted and i would sit there and be "suprised" but one thing i requested was that he not attack Singapore with port attacks (because i wanted to be able to play with my battlewagons.

3) unhistorical first turn......on Allied Turn 1, move them. If you put em on Full speed and send them away, the Japanese cant catch them

_____________________________

(in reply to TIMJOT)

Post #: 10

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 6:44:40 PM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TIMJOT

quote:

ORIGINAL: Luskan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Singapore , at 23,50

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
G3M Nell x 97

Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 16 destroyed, 48 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Buffalo I: 10 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Isis, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BC Repulse, Torpedo hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Electra, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Mauritius, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Express, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
5 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
14 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
14 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
6 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
10 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
2 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
2 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Manila , at 43,52

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 99
G3M Nell x 34
G4M1 Betty x 46

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 9 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 12 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 12 destroyed

Allied Ships
SS Seadragon, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Shark, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PG Asheville, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Porpoise, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Searaven, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD John D. Ford, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Sailfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Pike, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS S-37, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Swordfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Sealion, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Snapper, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Paz, Torpedo hits 1
SS Salmon, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AV Langley, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Permit, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
SS S-40, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Skipjack, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Whippoorwill, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
11 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
11 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
6 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
6 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
2 x G3M Nell bombing at 15000 feet
6 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty bombing at 15000 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Air attack on Manila , at 43,52

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged

Allied Ships
SS Shark, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Pope, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Sailfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Pickerel, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
26 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NO,NO,NO,NO I am no Allied Fanboy, but I really hate this. Its doubley frustrateding because it has been evident from the first AARs of Alpha testing to the now Beta version. Truth be told I dont care if every ship at PH is hit or if the BB Penn. is struck by 12 torps in drydock because in some alternate universe I can dream up some sort of convoluted logic for it. BUT Betty's "TORP" attacking Singapore Naval Base and Cavite Naval Base strains all believability. It was phsyically I-M-P-O-S-S-I-B-L-E. Not to mention that since the allied player is not able to order these units out of port on turn one, apparently these attacks MUST have taken place in the early morning DARKNESS of the 8th, which makes it even more ludicrous. There is no problem with Betty or Nells level bombing ships in these ports on turn one. The IJN did do this multiple times (though with little effect ) but allowing torp bombing is going to make it next to impossible (without house rules) to get anything close to the historical situaltion on turn one. I mean what IJN player wouldnt take a free shot at POW, Repulse and all the other naval assets on turn one?

I realise that at this point torp bombing ports are here to stay, BUT at least giving the time difference and the resulting forwarning shouldnt non PH naval units be allowed to move on the first phase of turn one? That would at least give the allied player a chance to mitagate the possibility of the above posted unrealistic result. Personally as an IJN player I would feel like I was cheating if I chose to Torp attack Singapore and Manila on turn one.

I apologize for the tersness of this post but I really really hate this.

Something definitely wrong here!

That's what testing is for.

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to TIMJOT)

Post #: 11

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 6:54:33 PM

TIMJOT

Posts: 1822
Joined: 4/30/2001
Status: offline

OK Nik, I took a deep breath and counted to ten. I feel better now.

Couple of questions though.

Am I to understand with the historic turn 1. The AI will NOT port attack Singapore or Manila? If so I satisfied with useing this option when playing against the AI. I will use house rules against willing PBEM opponents if I am guessing that no one would be willing to attack PH using the unhistoric turn one option. Thanks for the insite.

BTW, any chance of getting some of the new artwork posted?

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 12

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 6:59:15 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

Yes.....the default settings for the IJNAF Datai's are airfield attack on turn 1.

Personally, even with the option i tend to leave them that way as well because i'd rather catch Singapore's planes on the ground than risk attacking PoW and Repulse (not every port attack succeeds in getting them)

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 4/22/2004 5:04:14 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to TIMJOT)

Post #: 13

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 7:02:04 PM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline

Hi, Historic turn 1 the Japanese bomb Singapore Airfield (not port)
My house rule is no port attacks on turn 1 except for PH.
(I sent three players a turn 1 at 12pm est)(make that 4 players plus 1 where I am Allied)

< Message edited by Mogami -- 4/22/2004 12:13:31 PM >

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to TIMJOT)

Post #: 14

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 7:36:16 PM

Damien Thorn

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline

SS Seadragon, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Shark, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PG Asheville, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Porpoise, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Searaven, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD John D. Ford, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SS Sailfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Pike, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS S-37, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Swordfish, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Sealion, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Snapper, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Paz, Torpedo hits 1
SS Salmon, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AV Langley, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Permit, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
SS S-40, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SS Skipjack, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Nice work on the subs. Can I assume that ANY hit on a sub with a torpedo would completely blow it out of the water (and then back into the water in very small pieces) ? I notice that SS Permit took a torpeod hit and doesn't say "heavy damage". I hope this is just a FoW thing.

Why did you set your bombers at 15000 feet on the first turn where there is reduced flak? Since they would be level bombing I think 6000 feet would have been better.

(in reply to mogami)

Post #: 15

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 7:42:36 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

Why did you set your bombers at 15000 feet on the first turn where there is reduced flak? Since they would be level bombing I think 6000 feet would have been better.

15000 feet is the new default altitude setting in the game. 6000 feet was deemed to low a default setting and it was especially hurtful for the AI when attacking strongly defended targets.

There is an add'l rule that can vary the current setting be several thousand feet.

_____________________________

(in reply to Damien Thorn)

Post #: 16

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 8:29:50 PM

Damien Thorn

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

15000 feet is the new default altitude setting in the game. 6000 feet was deemed to low a default setting and it was especially hurtful for the AI when attacking strongly defended targets.

There is an add'l rule that can vary the current setting be several thousand feet.

It's funny, because 15k is the altitude I set my dive bombers and torpedo bombers to (when they are not going to level bomb). I always did that because of the 2x falk rule -- once at cruise altitude and once at attack altitude.

I am glad the actual level will vary a bit. Anything that can make the AI less predictable is good.

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 17

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 8:33:21 PM

Mike Scholl

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline

I'm happy to see that some other folks looked at the results LUSKIN posted and
thought "Well, he certainly had a good time...but what does this nonsense have
to do with World War II in the Pacific?" The answer is..., NOT MUCH! The "free
triple move" (or however much it is) that makes sense for Kido Butai sneaking
through the lonely waters of the North Pacific is being completely and idiotically
abused when applied to all Japanese Forces everywhere on the map. It needs
to GO! To much complete fantasy is resulting---and at this stage the designers
don't have time to work in "political triggers" and/or reaction moves to this silly-
ness.

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 18

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 8:50:03 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

Bah, who cares what happens on turn 1? It matters not at all in the greater scheme of things. Even 100% loss of all Allied shipping in the game on turn 1 makes little difference to the real game that will be fought from late 1942 onwards.

All the Nell/Betty hits in the world will not cure the fact that once the USA upgrades their AA there will no longer be any Nell/Betty. Enjoy it while you can for you know it is not going to last.

We'll see just how badly the forum flips over once they start to see the 200+ plane loss rates on a single raid against USA AA + USA Radar + USA 3rd Generation fighters. Let Japan get their few licks in while they can. It is completely unsustainable.

I count 49 Japan skilled pilots killed (add a couple more for ops losses). Most of them are IJN. I feel sorry for him. You guys are looking at the wrong results in the AAR, only one thing matters: PILOTS

(in reply to Mike Scholl)

Post #: 19

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 9:17:06 PM

Pascal_slith

Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Bah, who cares what happens on turn 1? It matters not at all in the greater scheme of things. Even 100% loss of all Allied shipping in the game on turn 1 makes little difference to the real game that will be fought from late 1942 onwards.

All the Nell/Betty hits in the world will not cure the fact that once the USA upgrades their AA there will no longer be any Nell/Betty. Enjoy it while you can for you know it is not going to last.

We'll see just how badly the forum flips over once they start to see the 200+ plane loss rates on a single raid against USA AA + USA Radar + USA 3rd Generation fighters. Let Japan get their few licks in while they can. It is completely unsustainable.

I count 49 Japan skilled pilots killed (add a couple more for ops losses). Most of them are IJN. I feel sorry for him. You guys are looking at the wrong results in the AAR, only one thing matters: PILOTS

True Frag. The only thing the Japanese could have hoped would happen before the end of 1942 was enough of a disaster in US losses and pushing back the fleet to the West Coast with the result of a negotiated settlement. That means some sort of 'national morale' level system like in Pacific War from Victory Games. This is what I have tried to point out by emphasizing things like logistical matters (Japanese should be able to target fuel supply points at PH) and of course the use of Japanese subs for attacking supply convoys (which historically they did little because of submariner indoctrination), along with better organization of shipbuilding, pilot training.

A World at War by GMT games has an interesting 'tension level' system too. Here's one for WitP: what if the Japanese DON'T attack the US during the first turn and the US stays neutral for a while longer?

_____________________________

So much WitP and so little time to play.... :-(

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 20

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 9:52:44 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TIMJOT

BUT Betty's "TORP" attacking Singapore Naval Base and Cavite Naval Base strains all believability. It was phsyically I-M-P-O-S-S-I-B-L-E.

Other posters have already addressed the ways you can force more historical first turn results. I'm interested in this statement above. Why was it impossible? We already know that we can't track who is in dry dock and who is not. We strongly believe that torpedo bombers need to be able to use some torpedoes in port (because they did historically). If there is a reason that the Level Bombers should not use torpedoes in port, I'd like to hear it. It would not be that hard for us to force them to drop bombs (of course they would have to do it in all port attacks, not just certain ports) if you can explain the reasons for this. Given that we have to do it for all ports, would you want us to limit Level Bombers to just using bombs in port? As an alternative we could also have only some use torpedoes to represent that some ships are in positions that cannot be attacked by torpedoes (as we are doing currently for all torpedo attacks in port). If so, please present your case for this. Thanks.

< Message edited by Joel Billings -- 4/22/2004 12:00:16 PM >

(in reply to TIMJOT)

Post #: 21

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 10:13:18 PM

Damien Thorn

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline

Joel, keep it the way it is. Like you said, torpedo attacks were done historically on ports. Without torpedos G3Ms and G4Ms are just laughable (or cryable for the Japanese).

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 22

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 10:30:39 PM

Capt. Harlock

Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

Given that we have to do it for all ports, would you want us to limit Level Bombers to just using bombs in port? As an alternative we could also have only some use torpedoes to represent that some ships are in positions that cannot be attacked by torpedoes (as we are doing currently for all torpedo attacks in port). If so, please present your case for this. Thanks.

Using torpedoes in a harbor was very difficult, because a heavy torpedo dropped into water from a height tends to sink to a significant depth before it levels off. The USN was well aware of what happened at Taranto, and considered installing anti-topedo netting at Pearl Harbor. They didn't because the depth of the harbor was shallow enough so that air-dropped torpedoes were considered impossible anyway. What they didn't realize was that the depth was known to the Japanese planners, who developed low-level attack runs and torpedo settings to overcome this problem. This technique would certainly not have worked for torpedoes dropped from 15,000 feet!

Here we need some research. After PH, most of the world's navies got busy and put in anti-torpedo netting. But it's fair to assume many important harbors already had it. After their own success at Taranto, and the loss of the "Royal Oak" at Scapa Flow, my guess is the Brits would already have installed anti-torpedo netting at Singapore.

Cavite Naval yard is another story. I am not aware of any succesful torpedoings of a docked submarine through all of WWII. In the Atlantic, this is because of the massive U-boat "pens" the Germans built. But I confess I don't know what the set-ups were in the Pacific.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 23

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/22/2004 10:36:17 PM

mogami

Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline

Hi, No torpedo is dropped from 15,000 feet.

When an aircraft with a torpedo makes it's run it drops to 200 feet (japanese) or 100 feet (USN) the 15,000 is just the altitude the aircraft fly to target.
In the combat text level bombers bomb from 15,000 while torpedo planes bomb from 200
(Check the Pearl Harbor strike you can count torpedo planes by those that attack at 200. The 9,000ft Kates are dropping bombs.

< Message edited by Mogami -- 4/22/2004 3:42:27 PM >

_____________________________

I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)

Post #: 24

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/23/2004 12:14:34 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

The assumption should be that major ports would have torp netting and net tenders (they were a part of every naval base.) As I posted in the dev forums, perhaps limiting torp attacks to smaller ports (4 and below) would suffice, PH attack exempted obviously. Actually, since any port smaller than 4 does not allow disbanding, why not leave it as no torp attacks on ships disbanded in port? I'd rather this than include net defences, net tenders,barrage balloons and all the coding needed for countermeasures. Can't have one and not the other.

If the results achieved in this AAR were possible, why were they not attempted? Not like they did not have enough time to plan if it were possible. I can't recall any instance of medium bombers making torpedo attacks against ships in a major harbor. Maybe limiting this to more maneuverable single engined aircraft and to harbors of lesser size is acceptable.

Not trying to be too disagreeable here but not caring about the results of turn 1? What? Why bother going to the level of detail achieved in the simulation thus far if this sort of result is not only possible but accepted? I think we've come too far to drop the ball now.

< Message edited by Ron Saueracker -- 4/22/2004 5:41:47 PM >

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RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/23/2004 12:22:54 AM

Ron Saueracker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

Joel, keep it the way it is. Like you said, torpedo attacks were done historically on ports. Without torpedos G3Ms and G4Ms are just laughable (or cryable for the Japanese).

Give me one example of medium bombers torpedoeing ships in a major port. I don't mind deviating from history as not being able to would be boring as hell, but we should try to keep it within reason.

< Message edited by Ron Saueracker -- 4/22/2004 5:29:37 PM >

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RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/23/2004 12:30:43 AM

Nikademus

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though i did not support LBA being able to do it, i'll play devil's advocate for the sake of balance.

Why wouldn't a twin engine be able to do it? Not all that different from skip bombing. Commonwealth pilots did some daring mast height bombings of the Malayan transports right from the get go. But of course they only had bombs. Had they torps though i'm sure they would have attempted to use them.

We need to keep in mind that PORT ATTACKS are a blend of bomb/torpedo too and that we cannot make distinctions between certain ports.

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RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/23/2004 12:33:31 AM

rogueusmc

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I believe the Japanese modified their torps for Pearl due to the shallow water in the port. The Arizona is sitting on the bottom and, were it still there, one main gun turrent would be completely out of the water. That's a shallow port!

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RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/23/2004 12:47:54 AM

Ron Saueracker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

though i did not support LBA being able to do it, i'll play devil's advocate for the sake of balance.

Why wouldn't a twin engine be able to do it? Not all that different from skip bombing. Commonwealth pilots did some daring mast height bombings of the Malayan transports right from the get go. But of course they only had bombs. Had they torps though i'm sure they would have attempted to use them.

We need to keep in mind that PORT ATTACKS are a blend of bomb/torpedo too and that we cannot make distinctions between certain ports.

Balance is achieved, or should be, through victory points and conditions, not by altering capabilities.

We can make distinctions between ports as it is already in the game. Size three and down, the port cannot allow a TF to disband into it as it is not developed enough, no channels, piers, finger piers, dockyards, what have you. Because of this, the TF which is docked is vulnerable to torpedo attack. Good enough in my book.

Anyway, I repeat, give me an example of medium bombers conducting torpedo attacks against ships in a major port. Before allowing it in a game, perhaps we should prove it was possible in reality.

< Message edited by Ron Saueracker -- 4/22/2004 5:56:34 PM >

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RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 4/23/2004 12:50:46 AM

Nikademus

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altering capabilities?

I have seen no evidence that the planes were not capable.

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