RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!!

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!!

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RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/2/2004 6:22:41 PM

kaleun

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

Nihongo o hanashimasu ka? watashi no oksan wa nihonjin desu.

Nihongo wakarimasen.
So I missed just about everything from that phrase.
(I do plan on learning the language)

_____________________________

Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

(in reply to j campbell)

Post #: 541

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/3/2004 2:27:46 PM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline

A somewhat quite turn...........unusual for both Luskan and myself. As you can see Clark rumbles on, with arty trading shells. At least my casualties are starting to drop off.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 02/17/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 21st NLF , at 31,64

Allied aircraft
Brewster 339D x 4
Martin 139 x 4

no losses

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Brewster 339D bombing at 2000 feet
2 x Martin 139 bombing at 6000 feet
2 x Martin 139 bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 49 troops unloading over beach at Tawi Tawi, 38,60

Japanese ground losses:
158 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Clark Field

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 44056 troops, 382 guns, 170 vehicles

Defending force 50991 troops, 615 guns, 240 vehicles

Allied ground losses:
166 casualties reported
Guns lost 7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Clark Field

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 42886 troops, 570 guns, 6 vehicles

Defending force 83650 troops, 469 guns, 451 vehicles

Japanese ground losses:
141 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to kaleun)

Post #: 542

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/4/2004 3:58:17 AM

Luskan

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline

Another very quiet turn as my forces continue to regroup, redistribute and relocate for continued operations in the SRA. I snatched a couple more little islands - including Jolo were I caught 38 of Raver's aircraft on the ground and wiped out another of his little base forces. At Clark the ARTY is still swapping shells as my larger units from Manila and Lamon bay move into position.

I invaded Ambiona today and my troops there knocked the fort down and should take the little oil producing base without much pain. Raver had a starving unit attack kendari (the original kendari base force who have spent the last 3 months wandering the jungles without food or water) so obviously they were ineffective, and my troops from Balikpapan arrived at Samarinda and took the forts down there too - next turn I'll crush Raver's troops there. More oil - which is good because I plan to expand some industries fairly soon. I have almost stockpiled enough kates and Vals to be ready for a few big CV clashes - but want to double the amounts I have in the pool before I move the production onto researching and upgrading models.

The sooner I can upgrade the hundreds of Nates I have, the better.

I have devised a daring operation in china. Since I have split Raver's front (there is no railroad, road or jungle path connecting his inland cities (Lanchow is the big one with heavy industry, oil and resources) to his south eastern cities close to Hanoi. My Chinese line is very secure, especially with a big surplus of troops (face it, Raver lost so many I was always going to be way ahead) and a bigger surplus of fortifications in all my captured bases, making them secure enough to leave the garrisoning to smaller mixed brigades sort of INF.

My HQ positioning isn't perfect - but I've got more HQs on the way to give my troops perhaps a week of support and refit before my best divisions march! With 50000 of Raver's troops easily expelled from Hanoi and now starving (surrounded and cut off) on the railroad, and his northern armies routed, it is time to widen the gap between his already cut off inland cities and his southern cities.

At this point he has to be having more supply pains than I am. I'll be ending those supply issues fairly soon, and my troops will make a long march on one of his objectives - one with oil, resources and industry - I think I've got one in mind that he won't be ready for me at.

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

(in reply to Raverdave)

Post #: 543

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/4/2004 8:47:33 PM

Onime No Kyo

Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

Question Luskan,

Even though Raver has obviously lost a lot of men in China, arn't those units supposed to get reformed? I suppose what really bothers me is that even if you destroy a large body of troops, the loss is only temporary and local. When the units are reformed, the same numbers of men become availible again, perhaps with no training and experience, but nonetheless.

(in reply to Luskan)

Post #: 544

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/4/2004 11:41:37 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

quote:

When the units are reformed, the same numbers of men become availible again, perhaps with no training and experience, but nonetheless.

You will be amazed just what percentage of VP come from ground troops in WitP. Ships & aircraft are no longer the major VP driver in the game.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)

Post #: 545

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/5/2004 8:50:31 AM

Onime No Kyo

Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

When the units are reformed, the same numbers of men become availible again, perhaps with no training and experience, but nonetheless.

You will be amazed just what percentage of VP come from ground troops in WitP. Ships & aircraft are no longer the major VP driver in the game.

quote:

You will be amazed just what percentage of VP come from ground troops in WitP. Ships & aircraft are no longer the major VP driver in the game.

Still, I meant to ask that for the purposes of pure combat. My question is why does Luskan seem so sure that he has numerical superiority over Raver in China when Raver's units are supposed to reform and be availible for reinforcing his beleaguered lines.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 546

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/5/2004 10:51:46 AM

Luskan

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline

I am sure I am superior because (IIRC)

a: destroyed units can take weeks and months to reconstitute, far behind the lines - and are often never as strong as the original.
b: this process takes a lot of time, and a lot of supply and heavy industry. Although the industry in china is still there, the supply is not - and neither is the HQ support that is needed so badly to replace and refit parts of units (squads, guns, engineers etc).
c: The Chinese that are left are ALL hammered. All those units are hurting and hurting bad. Mine on the other hand never suffered more than a few temporary casualties that are now fixed. My units also have a big speed edge on Raver's because they're fit and ready to go.

Quality over quantity - and even now I'd say I can muster more assault points than he can. I am tempted to try a two pronged offensive to split his troops up and try to ween the chinese industrial heart further (supply line wise) from India. I probably have the troops on hand to do this - but am not sure yet.

However I have had a chat with my banana and decided which objective in China's industrial heartland I will strike at. The resources there will be nice locally (to produce my own supply) as would the oil (not a whole lot of either) but denying the chinese the heavy industry will cause real problems.

If I could take the industrial hearland around Kuching (not sure if that is the right name - all those big chinese cities in the middle with resources) even taking big losses to do so - suddenly Raver's troops are so far away from supply and refit that htey'll die in their thousands in the jungle.

Now, Raver is smart -adn he knows that at the moment his units that have been routed in combat are literally walking targets - and he knows that this early in the war, the INF units he hasn't thrown into combat aren't anywhere near full strength (and are possibly never going to be). Raver won't let me catch dozens of his useless units for another slaughter (although they move so slowly he might not have a choice I hope!).

I'm guessing that he has decided on his "minimum" defence line in Burma - north of Rangoon - and the closest chinese base on the far end of that supply line. He KNOWS he hasn't seen a few of my tank regiments and some of my mixed regiments - and he knows they're in Burma somewhere, waiting to try and cut that supply line. Raver will pull his shattered troops back at least as far as the closest chinese base to india, in order to revive them a fraction - maybe he marches them a little hard and sits them in mandalay where they've got the British HQ support (those slow units would take a long time to limp to mandalay, but they'd repair very much faster there). Hopefully he won't have mandalay too much longer, but still.

Raver can't fight the broad front battle in China - not after the losses and damage his units have taken. I'm hoping he tries (he's not that dumb however). He'll pick a nice narrow front closest to that all important trickle of supplies from India - somewhere far back enough that he's got a few montsh before I can possibly arrive (and of course, somewhere where my supply line longer).

The stronger his Burma defence, the less likely I'll be able to swipe china permanently, or be able to land way behind his lines on the bay of bengal.

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)

Post #: 547

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/5/2004 10:56:42 AM

Luskan

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline

Well the last few turns have been very quiet (although I'm getting the feeling that Raver is madly withdrawing/fortress building) in china and the DEI.

My troops landed at Ambiona, but were unable to take the conquest all the way. Reinforcements on the way. Also my troops took Samarinda and Tarakan, which means southern borneo is now mine and Raver's troops will perish in the jungles. I inherited very, very large supply oil and resources stockpiles. Once I get them back to my places of heavy industry I'm going to be able to expand certain industrial centres.

My fortress building campaigns in Mandanao, Malaya, China and certain points of Luzon and Sulawesi has been very quick and effective, with construction units doing excellent fast work. Most of my chinese bases are at fort level 5 - and many of the malayan bases are at least size 3 (singapore is bigger of course). Still redristributing HQs forward as fast as possible to keep my big units support in the black (at the moment at Singapore I have a massive support base that refreshes and repairs all my big units - when Luzon is mine I'll have the same there).

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

(in reply to Luskan)

Post #: 548

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/6/2004 4:45:23 AM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline

Burma is now the center of gravity for not only India but also China. I have been flat out rushing troops south to Burma, but it is a real balacing act as I don't wish to leave India wide open. Luskan's CVs have quit the Bay of Bengal (for whatever reasons I have just spotted them about to transit south through the Malacca strait) and this has given me a golden window in which to rush supplies south. Had Luskan kept up the pressure I would have had 5 divisions marching into a base with no supplies..........but luck is on my side. To win Burma Luskan must keep a small number of CVs in the area to cut my SLOCs, but he then has to balance that against my USN CVs in the Pacific (of which I now have five).

Things continue to hold in the PI........Luskan got a surprise when he landed some small units to try and take Cebu and found the 81st PA Div waiting for him.
The South Pacific is being rapidly strengthened with Noumea as the center piece, already I have one Division in place as well as two more sailing as I speak.
PNG is also another area that is rapidly being reinforced, and this is going to cause banana boy a lot of pain if and when he decides to come south.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 02/22/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 35 troops unloading over beach at Sandakan, 36,58

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 22,55

Allied aircraft
Brewster 339D x 3
Martin 139 x 2

Allied aircraft losses
Martin 139: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Martin 139 bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 22,55

Allied aircraft
Brewster 339D x 9
Martin 139 x 17

Allied aircraft losses
Martin 139: 7 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga
BB Hiei
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 1
BB Kirishima
CA Kumano

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 6000 feet
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 6000 feet
2 x Martin 139 bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 22,55

Allied aircraft
Martin 139 x 3

no losses

Japanese Ships
CA Chikuma

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Martin 139 bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 49 troops unloading over beach at San Jose, 41,53

Japanese ground losses:
58 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Nanchang

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 14923 troops, 220 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 3583 troops, 8 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Hanoi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 69927 troops, 754 guns, 42 vehicles

Defending force 43454 troops, 139 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 75 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
200 casualties reported
Guns lost 11

Allied ground losses:
1190 casualties reported
Guns lost 45

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Sandakan

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 1643 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 40 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Sandakan base !!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Clark Field

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 97470 troops, 919 guns, 207 vehicles

Defending force 49964 troops, 553 guns, 243 vehicles

Allied ground losses:
97 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Tuguegarao

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 16462 troops, 202 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 7224 troops, 27 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese ground losses:
2 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 49,31

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 746 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 21179 troops, 261 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1

Allied ground losses:
119 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Amboina

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1114 troops, 16 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 2213 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 6 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
30 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Cebu Island

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 2818 troops, 37 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 370 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 16 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
2 casualties reported

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Luskan)

Post #: 549

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/6/2004 1:17:21 PM

Luskan

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline

Cebu was a bit of a screw up - but I've got real power landing there soon.
Every turn two or three little abses in the PI get added to the empire. This turn had ambiona raising the imperial flag - and soon enough I'll be moving on down the PNG peninsula. PM beware!

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

(in reply to Raverdave)

Post #: 550

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/7/2004 1:12:33 PM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline

Well Luskan and i would like to thankyou one and all for reading this AAR and we both hope that you have not only enjoyed it but also had some questions answered in regards to how the game plays.

We are now quite a few builds behind (13 at last count) and have decided to call a halt here and do a restart.

I was very happy with the way things went in the PI and think that I had a good chamce of holding it until at least early March. Malaya fell a month to the day earlyer than in real life but that was more to do with me not willing to defend it as much as Luskan pouring in non historic forces. But having said that Burma was not going to fall. I will gladly exchange Singapore for Burma anyday !

China is another matter all together. Lukan ran rings around me, so in the next game I will be looking for a solution.......but buggered if I know what I am going to do. The biggest surprise was the ease with which Luskan swept into the Bay of Bengal and then bombed every ship in sight. Unknown to him he missed a couple of golden opportunities to ship my RN CV and missed a number of VERY large transport TFs. I think that if I can make Burma stronger faster with more air support then I may just be able to blunt him in this area in the future game.

Once again, thankyou all for you input and comments !

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Luskan)

Post #: 551

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/7/2004 2:35:49 PM

tsimmonds

Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline

Great game, and a great AAR. Many thanks, Luskan and Raverdave!

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to Raverdave)

Post #: 552

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/7/2004 3:22:23 PM

Luskan

Posts: 1897
Joined: 7/11/2002
From: Down Under
Status: offline

Well, time to reveal the secrets of the last game:
PI was a disaster - an unmitigated failure that last turn I tried to fix with a massive shock attack at clark (about 7 divisions) and because they were all a little tired, and weren't the fresh, clean divisions recouperated at Singapore, they got slaughtered (although they knocked the fort size right down). That battle there would have set me back months.

Singapore was a failure too - only an idiot would try to defend it when he could be pulling those aussie troops out and packing them into Burma. The length of the supply lines to Burma were too long for me to snatch rangoon early enough - and Raver is right, I would never have been able to take Burma. The whole point of singapore is to trap the allies there and prevent the escape of the forces there.

China - the chinese player has to pull back and keep his big armies AWAY from the japs early on - and certainly not ever condense his forces in a single hex - it is begging for obliterration. The best tactic for the chinese was always to pull back to the widest possible defensive line - one that the japs can't stretch far enough to match, and then just sit back and keep the japs nailed down and helpless. Raver either tried to stand and fight - or worse, attack in china, and so he let me murder him.

My early gambit for kendari was good - but Rabaul was close to pointless since I didn't have the resources (or desire) to be pushing further forward.

Suva was excellent - a surprise attack that won't work again. Maybe Noumea this time.

Darwin - I really should have made a better effort there. Next time I'll be visiting with lots more firepower.

The lessons learnt: oil is great - but I've also got to use the fuel it creates and ship it FORWARD from day one. Bloody battleships drank all my fuel and gave raver two weeks to remove all the ships and troops I needed to sink/kill.

The second lesson - get over Clark early and fast - no screwing around elsewhere.

_____________________________

With dancing Bananas and Storm Troopers who needs BBs?

(in reply to tsimmonds)

Post #: 553

RE: An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!! - 6/8/2004 3:54:11 AM

ColFrost

Posts: 145
Joined: 10/29/2003
From: South St Paul, MN
Status: offline

Much thanks for the AARs and the commentary. I appreciate all the effort and thought you both put into it.

_____________________________

...the bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out and meet it.

-Thucydides

(in reply to Luskan)

Post #: 554

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