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- 11/27/2001 4:13:00 AM   
Galka

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 4/30/2000
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt:

I disagree. The method of having the AIP fight both sides is valid, It is to remove any human variation in tactics and reduce it to a pure tank vs. tank systems evaluation, removing any tactics issues.
It's called the least common denomenator rule. We have that system at work right now, and it throughly pisses off those folks who know their job for the sake of those not willing to learn it I think it applies in the game too. If any fool wants to use his Tigers to clear paths for infantry in Kharkov (a city), more power to him. But if he's out of the game by turn 5 due to close assault, he'd better learn how it's played. It's called learning the hard way. And it's very prevelent these days. As for testing with AI. You don't have to be a real good player to understand the Tiger's strength is at medium to long range. When I use AI to test tanks they merely charge one another completely negating the Tigers charactoristics. Try it yourself AI on AI, and then You as the Tiger Commander. You'll see it's not quantum physics were discussing here. Keep in mind my position is about revising OOBs for PBEM purposes only. I could care less what folks who can't find opponents do Another useless AI test is snipers and HMG's

_____________________________

"In light of my experience, I consider that your conclusion that the attacker needs a three to one superiority is under the mark, rather than over it. I would say that, for success, the attacker needs six to one or seven to one against a well-knit defence

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 91
- 11/27/2001 5:19:00 AM   
Galka

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 4/30/2000
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charles_22: Charles_22
Except for some of your points I'd have to dismiss this response as that between a fantasy gamer and a historic gamer. Each person see's the game from a different seemingly opposite perspective. I felt the need to start a new thread on the fantasy issue. You're missing the point. We have one test that says it's 3-to-1 so the Tiger should be triple the price (allegedly), and yet another, when putting the 3-to-1 advantage onto the field which suggests Tiger pricing at only 1.5 the T34, so which figure do you go with? Nevermind the fact that this is invalid in the first place. Compare pricing only based on same class, such as KVs against Tigers, and THEN maybe one can make a case for adjusting prices accordingly. Comparing Tigers to T34s is as much a joke as comparing T34s to PZIIs, they're NOT MEANT to be equivalent. Ok I'll assume (perhaps to my detriment) that we are discussing a historical simulation game. I don't think I missed the point at all. If you take 2.41 worth of points in T-34s put them up against 1.0 worth of points Tiger, and the Tiger still gets 1.5 to 1.0 Kills, I'd say a battalion of Tigers is near invincible. There are folks that claim games with 1000 bazookas negate this advantage. Many of these folks don't play PBEM, at least not for long. WW2 was not fought exclusively by KVs Vs Tigers, T-34s Vs MkIV et cetera. and MkV, well thats an exception T-34/76s should in this game be able to engage Tigers. To compensate for several deficiencies, namely Armour, Main Gun, and Fire Control, and Range I suggest that the Tiger is one of the vehicles that should have it's artificial(WAW) cost raised to reflect a possibility for an opponent with this lower quality model to get close enough to potentially overrun, rout, and/or kill a battalion of them, while suffering heavy losses. [ November 26, 2001: Message edited by: Galka ]



_____________________________

"In light of my experience, I consider that your conclusion that the attacker needs a three to one superiority is under the mark, rather than over it. I would say that, for success, the attacker needs six to one or seven to one against a well-knit defence

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 92
- 11/27/2001 6:00:00 AM   
Galka

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 4/30/2000
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Charles_22:
The somewhat lopsided results from T34s to Tigers, however, is based on the simple notion that somehow the T34 should be it's equal because the Germans lost and it was the Russian mainstay.
 Yes, the germans lost and having waves of T-34s fail against Tigers repeatedly is paradoxical. Nay, the T-34 is certainly not the Tigers equal. It is however a main battle tank for the russians through most of the war. A greater difference in price between Tiger and T/34 serves to enhance this fact. How come nobody ever complains that the KV85 is too cheap in relation to the Sherman? Or the KV85 to the T34/85? Or the Pershing in relation to the PZIV?
I guess that it's not a glaring as the Tiger's variance. [ November 26, 2001: Message edited by: Galka ]



_____________________________

"In light of my experience, I consider that your conclusion that the attacker needs a three to one superiority is under the mark, rather than over it. I would say that, for success, the attacker needs six to one or seven to one against a well-knit defence

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 93
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