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RE: Thanks for info Joel! - 5/3/2004 1:15:39 PM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline 		Burma campaign would be a real treat.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 5/3/2004 11:10:49 AM >

_____________________________

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"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it."– Edmund Burke

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 31
RE: Thanks for info Joel! - 5/3/2004 2:18:15 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

But how come no Midway scenario?

That's to give us all a chance to play with the scenario editor

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Post #: 32
RE: Thanks for info Joel! - 5/3/2004 4:28:57 PM   
Rendova


Posts: 405
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

But how come no Midway scenario?

That's to give us all a chance to play with the scenario editor


That and the fact Midway would only make a 7-10 turn scerario, not alot of fun in my book for a WitP engined game.

(in reply to tsimmonds)
Post #: 33
RE: Thanks for info Joel! - 5/3/2004 5:01:27 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rendova

quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

But how come no Midway scenario?

That's to give us all a chance to play with the scenario editor


That and the fact Midway would only make a 7-10 turn scerario, not alot of fun in my book for a WitP engined game.

Also, Midway is a very "tactical" situation not really suited to the more "strategic" level
or WITP. Many of the elements that made Midway "unique" wouldn't even show up at
this scale.

(in reply to Rendova)
Post #: 34
RE: Thanks for info Joel! - 5/3/2004 5:14:16 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline 		Well, some of the best scenarios in wargames that I have played have been user-made. Just check out the list of user-made scenarios for TOAW. Some players spend years perfecting their scenarios based on feedback from others.

With WiTP being the ONLY game of its type, you can expect some truly great scenarios will eventually be making their appearance.

Cheers!

_____________________________


(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 35
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/3/2004 11:18:50 PM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Here's what we plan at release:

1 Tutorial
2 Rising Sun: 7 Dec 41 - 16 Mar 42
3 Coral Sea: 1 May 42 - 15 May 42
4 South Pacific (Hypothetical): 1 May 42 - 28 Feb 42
5 Guadalcanal: 4 Aug 42 - 7 Feb 43
6 Marianas: 6 Jun 44 - 29 Aug 44
7 Manchuria: 8 Aug 45 - 31 Aug 45
8 The First Year: 7 Dec 41 - 31 Dec 42
9 The Turning Point: 1 May 42 - 30 Sep 43
10 Campaign 45: 1 Jan 45 - Jun 30 46
11 Campaign 44: 1 Jun 44 - Jun 30 46
12 Campaign 43: 1 Jun 43 - Jun 30 46
13 Campaign 42A: 1 May 42 - Jun 30 46
14 Campaign 42B: 1 Aug 42 - Jun 30 46
15 The War in the Pacific: 7 Dec 41 - Jun 30 46


What makes scenario 4 "hypothetical?"

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 36
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 12:03:33 AM   
Paulchen

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 4/13/2001
From: Schneverdingen,germany
Status: offline 		Is it possible to build a hypothetical scenario, where russia will be defeated by the germans, and japan have take as result the eastern sibiria, before Dec 7.
The hypothetical results are:
1. the transsibiria railroad can supply japan with oil (caucasus) and goods from germany
2. the whole german airforce and army can fight in western-europe and in africa (this will make it much harder for the allys, not so many planes and army in the pacific)
3. a german expidition corps (tank divisions + airforce) can help in china, it will possible that japan conquered china in the year 43
4. it is possible that england will be defeated in the middle east and germany and japan can conquered india
5. After china and possible india fall, the whole japan army (eventually german troops too) can fight in the year 44 in the pacific

In my opinion, this will be a nice scenario, anything is possible

_____________________________

veni, vedi, vici

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 37
Midway - 5/4/2004 12:32:40 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

But how come no Midway scenario?

Leo "Apollo11"


Midway was early June 42 so I'm guessing the designers are saying that Scenarios

...4 South Pacific (Hypothetical): 1 May 42 - 28 Feb 4(3)
...9 The Turning Point: 1 May 42 - 30 Sep 43
...13 Campaign 42A: 1 May 42 - Jun 30 46

allow the players to fight at Midway if they choose while

...14 Campaign 42B: 1 Aug 42 - Jun 30 46

presumes that Midway has come and gone (US defeats Japan 4:1) and the players need to live with the historical result.

What other alternative do you want for a Midway scenario ?

< Message edited by Greyshaft -- 5/4/2004 8:33:06 AM >

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 38
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 12:34:57 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulchen

Is it possible to build a hypothetical scenario, where russia will be defeated by the germans, and japan have take as result the eastern sibiria, before Dec 7.
The hypothetical results are:
1. the transsibiria railroad can supply japan with oil (caucasus) and goods from germany
2. the whole german airforce and army can fight in western-europe and in africa (this will make it much harder for the allys, not so many planes and army in the pacific)
3. a german expidition corps (tank divisions + airforce) can help in china, it will possible that japan conquered china in the year 43
4. it is possible that england will be defeated in the middle east and germany and japan can conquered india
5. After china and possible india fall, the whole japan army (eventually german troops too) can fight in the year 44 in the pacific

In my opinion, this will be a nice scenario, anything is possible


I just can't stand it anymore.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 39
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 1:02:48 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulchen

Is it possible to build a hypothetical scenario, where russia will be defeated by the germans, and japan have take as result the eastern sibiria, before Dec 7.
The hypothetical results are:
1. the transsibiria railroad can supply japan with oil (caucasus) and goods from germany
2. the whole german airforce and army can fight in western-europe and in africa (this will make it much harder for the allys, not so many planes and army in the pacific)
3. a german expidition corps (tank divisions + airforce) can help in china, it will possible that japan conquered china in the year 43
4. it is possible that england will be defeated in the middle east and germany and japan can conquered india
5. After china and possible india fall, the whole japan army (eventually german troops too) can fight in the year 44 in the pacific
In my opinion, this will be a nice scenario, anything is possible

It might be possible to build something like this if you really enjoy TOTAL NONSENSE.
Nazi Germany was NOT going to defeat Soviet Russia in the summer of 1941. No how,
no way. It was impossible to go far enough and fast enough with an army that was 90%
horse drawn to do that. If you think it was, then you've "got your headquarters where
your hindquarters should be". But even if it were:

1) The Trans-Siberian RR would be 4,000 miles of demolitions, sabotage, and Partisans..,
worthless for years.
2) It would take 75-100 divisions of manpower to garrison/occupy/hold down the Russians
for quite a while.
3) LOTS O LUCK See #1 above.
4) Defeating England in the Middle East does is no guarantee (look at your lines of supply)
and if accomplished doesn't guarantee anything vs. India.
5) If China could be conquered (and the "whole japan army" had been trying to do that
since 1937), You would still need most of it to garrison the place.

IMHO, this is the kind of pipedream that comes frome sniffing too much glue and playing
to much "Risk". No one who's seriously studied the period and the realities of logistics
could possibly come up with it. But if that's what you want to play, then I imagine the
editor can be "bullied" into giving you some sore of replica of the situation you describe.
But WHY?

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 40
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 1:14:20 AM   
Dunedain

 

Posts: 224
Joined: 4/4/2000
Status: offline 		The scenario I'm waiting for is the "No Washington Naval Treaty" alternate history scenario.
No carriers, no planes designed to operate from carriers, and all countries went full steam ahead
with their capital ship construction plans after WWI, without the restraints of the Washington Naval Treaty.

FUN, FUN, FUN!! :)

(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 41
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 1:17:06 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		I'm waiting for the "Holland goes bersek" scenario. Where the Dutch build 10 BB and 10 CV and declare war on the rest of the world. (They have lots of resources but decide they need the Japanese industry)

CV Machtige Kaas Air capacity 96 Max Speed 35kts endurance 50,000 AA 150x40mm
BB Grote Worst 9x16in 12x6in 75x40mm Max Speed 35kts endurance 50,000

10x Dutch Tank Divisions (Dutch main battle tank Varken 105mm 30 mph, 6in armor)
6x Dutch paratroop divisions

< Message edited by Mogami -- 5/3/2004 6:28:36 PM >

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Dunedain)
Post #: 42
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 1:37:52 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulchen

Is it possible to build a hypothetical scenario, where russia will be defeated by the germans, and japan have take as result the eastern sibiria, before Dec 7.
The hypothetical results are:
1. the transsibiria railroad can supply japan with oil (caucasus) and goods from germany
2. the whole german airforce and army can fight in western-europe and in africa (this will make it much harder for the allys, not so many planes and army in the pacific)
3. a german expidition corps (tank divisions + airforce) can help in china, it will possible that japan conquered china in the year 43
4. it is possible that england will be defeated in the middle east and germany and japan can conquered india
5. After china and possible india fall, the whole japan army (eventually german troops too) can fight in the year 44 in the pacific

In my opinion, this will be a nice scenario, anything is possible

Oh, wait, don't forget, the German navy can sail around Cape Horn with all the ships of the former Royal Navy too.....sheesh. Lemme make sure I got your name, son, so I can stay well clear of your home-grown scenarios.....

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 43
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 1:40:39 AM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		I'm looking forward to the extended play scenario in which the war continues into 1990 as factions switch sides and allegiances shift. Should be no sweat for the programmers. Can I have this yesterday?

Will the USS Constitution (the 44-gun frigate of 1812 fame, still commissioned after all these years) be included in the OOB? I'm really looking forward to seeing whether or not a Kirov class DDG can be taken down with a close broadside.

Oh yeah. By the way, in case anyone was interested, Km Bismarck was not destroyed by the Royal Navy in May 1941 as has previously been told. It was taken out by a critical hit from a 3" gun on an American Coast Guard cutter (Modoc). The Coast Guard would have sunk Yamato and Musashi too if Halsey had not been such a rivalrous glory-hoarder.



< Message edited by mdiehl -- 5/3/2004 11:35:23 PM >

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 44
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 1:42:43 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

CV Machtige Kaas BB Grote Worst

Now if only we had a baguette, we could make belegde broodjes!

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

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Post #: 45
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 1:45:51 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline 		How about a "Melanesian Meglomania" scenario with lots of heavily armored war
canoes and mass produced wooden clubs? And the "Cargo Cult" deciding that
bamboo replicas weren't going to do the job and stealing real airplanes instead?

(in reply to mdiehl)
Post #: 46
Beserk Dutch - 5/4/2004 3:04:39 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		One of their CV




Attachment (1)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 47
RE: Beserk Dutch - 5/4/2004 3:22:44 AM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		I thought those Dutch carriers were CVNs?

Dammit Mogami, the game's broken again. Aren't you testers doing anything?

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

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Post #: 48
Editor adventures - 5/4/2004 3:56:50 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		The airwing of the Machtige Kaas. I'm going to add 3 of these CV to the Dutch OB and then play the early SRA and see "What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub"




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mogami -- 5/3/2004 8:54:06 PM >

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to madflava13)
Post #: 49
RE: Editor adventures - 5/4/2004 4:01:20 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Lot of faarts, but - what - no radar?

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 50
RE: Editor adventures - 5/4/2004 4:07:35 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Lot of faarts, but - what - no radar?

Who needs radar when you have de machtige Schacht?

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Post #: 51
RE: Editor adventures - 5/4/2004 4:42:31 AM   
CommC

 

Posts: 467
Joined: 8/3/2002
From: Michigan, USA
Status: offline 		I don't see how a Midway scenario would be any shorter than the Coral Sea scenario. i.e. if Coral Sea isn't too short, and too small for WiTP, why should Midway be too short or too small?

(in reply to tsimmonds)
Post #: 52
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 5:48:27 AM   
ColFrost


Posts: 145
Joined: 10/29/2003
From: South St Paul, MN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CommC

I would like to see a few more shorter scenarios that will be less overwhelming to the beginning player, or one that doesn't have loads of time to invest. For example, I would like to see a Midway scenario added to the list.


Ummmm. This is a strategic/operational game. I think they make other games for that. I don't know if you want to play this game if you have 'limited' time.

_____________________________

...the bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out and meet it.

-Thucydides

(in reply to CommC)
Post #: 53
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 6:00:43 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ColFrost

quote:

ORIGINAL: CommC

I would like to see a few more shorter scenarios that will be less overwhelming to the beginning player, or one that doesn't have loads of time to invest. For example, I would like to see a Midway scenario added to the list.


Ummmm. This is a strategic/operational game. I think they make other games for that. I don't know if you want to play this game if you have 'limited' time.


There is a scenario editor. It should take you about a half a weekend to rustle up a decent Midway simulation, and the other half to play it....by e-mail....

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

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Post #: 54
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 6:55:53 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulchen

Is it possible to build a hypothetical scenario, where russia will be defeated by the germans, and japan have take as result the eastern sibiria, before Dec 7.
The hypothetical results are:
1. the transsibiria railroad can supply japan with oil (caucasus) and goods from germany
2. the whole german airforce and army can fight in western-europe and in africa (this will make it much harder for the allys, not so many planes and army in the pacific)
3. a german expidition corps (tank divisions + airforce) can help in china, it will possible that japan conquered china in the year 43
4. it is possible that england will be defeated in the middle east and germany and japan can conquered india
5. After china and possible india fall, the whole japan army (eventually german troops too) can fight in the year 44 in the pacific

In my opinion, this will be a nice scenario, anything is possible


Hey, c'mon. Give the guy a break.

On second thought, don't . . .

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 55
RE: Thanks for info Joel! - 5/4/2004 12:34:54 PM   
Paulchen

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 4/13/2001
From: Schneverdingen,germany
Status: offline
quote:

It might be possible to build something like this if you really enjoy TOTAL NONSENSE.
Nazi Germany was NOT going to defeat Soviet Russia in the summer of 1941. No how,
no way. It was impossible to go far enough and fast enough with an army that was 90%
horse drawn to do that. If you think it was, then you've "got your headquarters where
your hindquarters should be". But even if it were:

1) The Trans-Siberian RR would be 4,000 miles of demolitions, sabotage, and Partisans..,
worthless for years.
2) It would take 75-100 divisions of manpower to garrison/occupy/hold down the Russians
for quite a while.
3) LOTS O LUCK See #1 above.
4) Defeating England in the Middle East does is no guarantee (look at your lines of supply)
and if accomplished doesn't guarantee anything vs. India.
5) If China could be conquered (and the "whole japan army" had been trying to do that
since 1937), You would still need most of it to garrison the place.

IMHO, this is the kind of pipedream that comes frome sniffing too much glue and playing
to much "Risk". No one who's seriously studied the period and the realities of logistics
could possibly come up with it. But if that's what you want to play, then I imagine the
editor can be "bullied" into giving you some sore of replica of the situation you describe.
But WHY?


If you say it is TOTAL NONSENSE, then have you right, but then is any hypothetical scenario TOTAL NONSENSE, and any discussion about this can end and no game need to be play.
But whithout bad weather in Nov/Dec 41, what happened at the front at moskwa.
No one will it knows, that is fact!
Hypothetical, and i mean hypothetical, russia make peace with the germans like france (eventually a military revolution happen and Stalin is dead).
And in this case the Trans-Siberian RR can be open fully in function, and then, and then, and.......

I know this is very hypothetical, but not 100% impossible.

_____________________________

veni, vedi, vici

(in reply to Zakhal)
Post #: 56
RE: Thanks for info Joel! - 5/4/2004 12:52:13 PM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline 		How about including the Plan Z ships

Gosh people, why don't you just wait for the game coming out. Then take your time with the editor, and you can start to design any Bull§$$% you wanna!!


_____________________________

Bougainville, November 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. It rained today.

Letter from a U.S. Marine,November 1943

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 57
RE: WHAT WILL BE THE CHOICES? - 5/4/2004 5:36:11 PM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
Joined: 1/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Here's what we plan at release:

1 Tutorial
2 Rising Sun: 7 Dec 41 - 16 Mar 42
3 Coral Sea: 1 May 42 - 15 May 42
4 South Pacific (Hypothetical): 1 May 42 - 28 Feb 42
5 Guadalcanal: 4 Aug 42 - 7 Feb 43
6 Marianas: 6 Jun 44 - 29 Aug 44
7 Manchuria: 8 Aug 45 - 31 Aug 45
8 The First Year: 7 Dec 41 - 31 Dec 42
9 The Turning Point: 1 May 42 - 30 Sep 43
10 Campaign 45: 1 Jan 45 - Jun 30 46
11 Campaign 44: 1 Jun 44 - Jun 30 46
12 Campaign 43: 1 Jun 43 - Jun 30 46
13 Campaign 42A: 1 May 42 - Jun 30 46
14 Campaign 42B: 1 Aug 42 - Jun 30 46
15 The War in the Pacific: 7 Dec 41 - Jun 30 46


What makes scenario 4 "hypothetical?"


Probably because the game goes backwards through time in that scenario...

_____________________________


(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 58
RE: Editor adventures - 5/4/2004 5:59:29 PM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

The airwing of the Machtige Kaas. I'm going to add 3 of these CV to the Dutch OB and then play the early SRA and see "What if Spartacus had a Piper Cub"

You must warn me before loosing such vessels.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 59
RE: Thanks for info Joel! - 5/4/2004 8:23:43 PM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		I don't understand why people are criticizing the historical innaccuracies of someone's hypothetical...

I don't think what Paulchen said could ever happen, but so what? Let the boy build his own scenario. Who cares? You don't have to play it if you don't want!

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

(in reply to Paulchen)
Post #: 60
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