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Situation Hopeless? - 5/20/2004 3:22:58 AM   
scorryuk

 

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Its mid June 42 on scen 16 and I`m playing as US against computer. Was holding my own up to now having inflicted far greater naval losses than recieved. Have been trying to gain foothold at Lunga but IJN have headstart and final straw came today when enemy troop numbers reached 10,000 and he transfered his torp. bombers to airbase there. Add to that the 3 carriers and substantial surface fleet just off Lunga and it`s seems a little hopeless. I`ve only managed to get 5,000 troops landed and nearest base is still Lugaville. Was little slow off the mark with ground war and now feel it might be too late to turn this. Any advice?
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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/20/2004 3:35:45 AM   
marky


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if u REALLY want to win no matter the cost?

pour on the air and naval support

throw in everything u have

attack their supply lines by day and by night

bomb by day and night

b ruthless and relentless

and dont stop till uve won the canal

and dont forget to bring in land reinforcements, and to attack wen u have a decent number of troops

and MAYBE u can win

worth a try right ?

< Message edited by marky -- 5/19/2004 7:48:03 PM >


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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/20/2004 4:21:57 AM   
DoomedMantis


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Mid june 42 is a bit too early to be trying to take Lunga against a determined foe. Your main hope now is to use LR Bombers to close down the airfield, but seriously without being able to provide air cover for your transports then Id say your in serios trouble

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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/20/2004 3:13:36 PM   
barbarrossa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scorryuk

Its mid June 42 on scen 16 and I`m playing as US against computer. Was holding my own up to now having inflicted far greater naval losses than recieved. Have been trying to gain foothold at Lunga but IJN have headstart and final straw came today when enemy troop numbers reached 10,000 and he transfered his torp. bombers to airbase there. Add to that the 3 carriers and substantial surface fleet just off Lunga and it`s seems a little hopeless. I`ve only managed to get 5,000 troops landed and nearest base is still Lugaville. Was little slow off the mark with ground war and now feel it might be too late to turn this. Any advice?


In my latest game as the Allies, I reinforced Lunga at my earliest opportunity. I've kept my carriers out of the fight with the "Deathstar" so far. My LBA at PM have harrassed the IJN supply lines and I've extensively mined Shortland, and the northern opening to the Slot.

I've steadily supplied Lunga via Fast Transport, running the same destroyers into the dirt and then sending them back to Pearl when thier speed dips due to sys damage.

Lunga is big enough to support 4 engine heavies and I'm using them to hit AF's at Rabaul and Shortlands and try a port attack from time to time to get a cheap hit on valuble assets. Got two egg's on Akagi, and 5 on a CVL.

I'm in very late Sept.42. And the IJN just dramatically stepped up his air attacks so perhaps he'll make a major move soon.

If I were you I'd go purely defensive and chip away using SS patrols and minelaying. Make it hard to supply his gains and minimize your own risks.

Be patient, he cannot sit there with his TF's indefinitely over Lunga. Ready a substantial Surface force and wait for his Betty's and Nell's to wear themselves out against Luganville and Nomea. Then go get 'em. If you have carriers you can give them CAP as they are making thier runs. It's all in reverse from the history!

But beware the "Deathstar"

(in reply to scorryuk)
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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/20/2004 3:33:09 PM   
DoomedMantis


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I think he is trying to take Lunga, not hold onto it. To beat 10 000 troops he would need at least 20 000 to take it

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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/21/2004 11:47:19 AM   
scorryuk

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoomedMantis

I think he is trying to take Lunga, not hold onto it. To beat 10 000 troops he would need at least 20 000 to take it


Yeah. I kindda thought I was in with a chance with that and so expended alot of time a resources to that end. Guess I got beaten to it. Am just going to keep chipping away at his naval forces now. Have been well ahead up to now having claimed BB and CVL and dozen AP`s and DD`s. Mined 3 hexes aroung Lunga. So if he wants to keep it it will cost him. Am bringing up my 2 CVs- was just a little reluctant before cos pilots are still fatigued after blasting his AP`s. And he has 1 more CV than me. Guess I was just in shock at way things changed so quickly when first posted. Wanted light at end of tunnel in that this might be normal for stage of war. Also that IJN can`t have many more ships in reserve- they just keep coming!! And on Gili side of things I have a enemy TF consisting of 2 BBs with escorts breathing down my neck that seem immune to LBA- made right mess of my planes and only scored 1 hit on BB deck armour, didn`nt penetrate!

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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/21/2004 2:32:06 PM   
barbarrossa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoomedMantis

I think he is trying to take Lunga, not hold onto it. To beat 10 000 troops he would need at least 20 000 to take it


But maybe not if he attrites the Japanese supply to Lunga. 10,000 hungry mouths and Betty's that need supply to fly are going to lead to juicy targets. If he occasionally stages his carriers within range of these supply convoys (and keeps a sharp eye out for IJN carrier TF's!), mines extensively, uses the 4 engine heavies when they arrive and occasionally lays the smackdown with a night naval bombardment, he can make life unfun for the Japanese. And all the while he's growing stronger.

But it will take patience youg Padawan learner..........

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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/21/2004 3:35:54 PM   
DoomedMantis


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All it would take though is a bad carrier battle and he is a goner though. Early in (June-Aug) the Japs have all the advantages. More air on hand, more CV's, more surface forces and more LCU's. Trying to go offensive when you are outnumbered like this only means that you are playing into the Japs hands. I use hit and run tactics where the Japs arent, then when i am stronger go onto the offensive.

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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/21/2004 6:18:52 PM   
PzB74


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Well, since the AI isn't that 'great' - it may be a good idea to go onto the offensive and fight against superior forces. Kinda brings balance, doesn't it?

I often find myself bored when the big challenge is gone - and this would most likely happen evertime I played the Allied side in 1943 against the AI. Moving 2000 fighters and bombers slowly accross the Pacific knowing that nothing is ever going to stop me, so it doesn't justify the immense amount of time it takes...

So go on, see how quickly you can stop the Jap AI - if you fail miserably, all it will cost you is another few months of interesting gaming time

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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/21/2004 7:42:23 PM   
barbarrossa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoomedMantis

All it would take though is a bad carrier battle and he is a goner though. Early in (June-Aug) the Japs have all the advantages. More air on hand, more CV's, more surface forces and more LCU's. Trying to go offensive when you are outnumbered like this only means that you are playing into the Japs hands. I use hit and run tactics where the Japs arent, then when i am stronger go onto the offensive.


Yeah, he is in June/ July timeframe isn't he?

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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/22/2004 2:14:15 AM   
scorryuk

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarrossa

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoomedMantis

I think he is trying to take Lunga, not hold onto it. To beat 10 000 troops he would need at least 20 000 to take it


But maybe not if he attrites the Japanese supply to Lunga. 10,000 hungry mouths and Betty's that need supply to fly are going to lead to juicy targets. If he occasionally stages his carriers within range of these supply convoys (and keeps a sharp eye out for IJN carrier TF's!), mines extensively, uses the 4 engine heavies when they arrive and occasionally lays the smackdown with a night naval bombardment, he can make life unfun for the Japanese. And all the while he's growing stronger.

But it will take patience youg Padawan learner..........


Been following these tactics and struck gold!! Sent in a naval bombardment force during night to Lunga, sunk 2 AP`s on way in then enagaged enemy CV group! In same turn.Got couple of lucky hits on 1 of the carriers. Didn`t think it was possible cos escorts usually would fight strong rearguard action while the retreated. Not sure how bad damge was but by morning they had retreated in direction of Truk. At last a bit of breathing space.

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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/23/2004 2:03:28 AM   
barbarrossa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: scorryuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarrossa

quote:

ORIGINAL: DoomedMantis

I think he is trying to take Lunga, not hold onto it. To beat 10 000 troops he would need at least 20 000 to take it


But maybe not if he attrites the Japanese supply to Lunga. 10,000 hungry mouths and Betty's that need supply to fly are going to lead to juicy targets. If he occasionally stages his carriers within range of these supply convoys (and keeps a sharp eye out for IJN carrier TF's!), mines extensively, uses the 4 engine heavies when they arrive and occasionally lays the smackdown with a night naval bombardment, he can make life unfun for the Japanese. And all the while he's growing stronger.

But it will take patience youg Padawan learner..........


Been following these tactics and struck gold!! Sent in a naval bombardment force during night to Lunga, sunk 2 AP`s on way in then enagaged enemy CV group! In same turn.Got couple of lucky hits on 1 of the carriers. Didn`t think it was possible cos escorts usually would fight strong rearguard action while the retreated. Not sure how bad damge was but by morning they had retreated in direction of Truk. At last a bit of breathing space.


Is this the scenario with the 'deathstar" or is it the one missing the Midway casualties?

Always keep a mental picture of the carrier strength the AI may have.

Try mining approaches Lunga using your S boats. I'm finding this to be effective though this is the first time in a game that I've tried it. Sunk a DD but a couple IJN BB's hit a couple too.

Beware his surface forces when you try a run in to Lunga, he might be waiting on you........and he will be ready

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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/23/2004 5:06:21 AM   
RevRick


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If it's Sc. 16 (Yamamoto's Prophecy), and only in Mid-June, what is the Difficulty Setting. When I have taken a look at that scenario, no on gets much of anything until early July, if then. To have that much on Lunga within two weeks of the start, both sides must have stripped bases in the rear area to put them there, and the AI has the CV's earlier than I have seen them scheduled to arrive. The AI only has three brigades and some relatively hefty naval garrison forces (SNLF) around to cover everything from Madang to Lunga, and if they don't grab Buna quickly, and the Anzacs can get a sufficient strength there, it may have real problems. Since you have said that the AI has three CV's, and you have two, then it must be later, and you may be getting the 1st Marine Div in the game, but the AI will be getting some good sized units as well.

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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/23/2004 12:44:37 PM   
scorryuk

 

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It is scen 16, historical difficult level I think, and it is coming up on mid July. No shortage of troops to land at Lunga but aircraft make it difficult and very costlyso my 5,00 men there could be on there own. Going to concentrate on building up base on island SE of Lunga to provide a stepping stone between it and Luganville.Have sunk alot of enemy shipping and mined all shallow hexes near Lunga with TF of DMs. At what stage does IJN resources (i.e ships and aircraft) start to slow down/dry up?

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RE: Situation Hopeless? - 5/27/2004 4:46:51 PM   
Feinder


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What's the end-date on Scen 16? If it's one of the long ones that drag on thru mid-43, it's far from hopeless. As the USN player, play like you have all the time in the world, because you do. Lose a carrier or two? It's ok, you'll get more. Just play defensively thru about September of 42. Avoid major fleet engagements, and pick on the smaller fleets that are NOT near the IJN CV's. Don't let IJN pull you into a major fleet engagement, or make it so that you can at least give a good accounting of yourself if you do have to stand and fight.

Like I said, if Scen 16 is one of the long scenarios, it doesn't really matter if you don't take Lunga until February. Or if he does drop all of his men in Lunga, skip it. The bulk of the points in the game are in BASES. Capture them, improve them, but take your time if you're the USN.

But having Betty's based in Lunga is VERY annoying. He can hit Luganville an Nomea from there, and wreck havoc on your supply convoys in the south of the map.

How to capture Lunga...

1. Build up the Level (0)1 fields North of Luganville. There are 4 bases that can be improved north and northeast of Luganville, that are NOT in the Solomons chain. Gavigmana, Neva, and Iaru come to mind. Remember, you can improve a (0)1 base to 4(1), which is important because you're going to be basing bombers on them to pound Lunga. You can put B-17s on any of the, and even your shorter-ranged B-26s can be based at Neva and still hit Lunga. The chain of bases also gives you a crucial CAP umbrella for when you do approach the Solomons.
2. Once you've established the bases south of the Solomons, it's time to get some guys onto San Cristobal (the little (0)1 base a few hexes of SE of Lunga, I might have the name wrong tho, but you'll see it, but from now on, I'm going to call it San Crist). IJN may have already captured this base; or if he hasn't, he should really fight you for this one. If it's an opposed landing (he has guys there), it's going to be a tough fight, but you'll still be able to pound him and retreat to your CAP umbrella in the south. If you do get to land there, drop enough INF to hold the base, CDs to ward off the constant bombardment TFs that -will- come, and several ENG units to build that base up as quickly as possible.
3. San Crist is cruical. From there, you'll be able base fighters to help cover your invasion of Lunga. Like I said, IJN will (should) make like miserable there. Be ready to use Fast Transports to keep San Crist supplied. It's port is level 0 to start, so uloading supplies can be dangerous for your AKs (especially if you haven't got an AF there yet). Build up San Crist to a level 4 also. A bigger base, just means more fighters to cover your landing a Lunga. You might even put in some of the very short-ranged A-20s there, as they'll also be in range. This little base is also a good place to put swarms of PT boats (they're much cheaper than using major surface units to protect against bombardment TFs).

When you're finally ready to go for Lunga, it won't be easy. But by then, you'll have reduced the AF to a big bomb crater (using your bombers from the bases in the SE). You'll have LB-CAP all the way from Noumea or Luganville, including San Crist. Once you're at Lunga, your carriers will be providing the CAP for your invasion fleet (and San Crist can provide additional LRCAP, because he won't be worried about bombing San Crist at this point).

-F-

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