Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Ike: Countdown to D-Day

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Ike: Countdown to D-Day Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/1/2004 5:47:29 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
The A&E movie about Eisenhower was shown last night.

Has anyone seen it? It should be on several more times this week if you missed it.

Overall, the movie was good. I gained a better appreciation of the enormous pressures that faced the Supreme Commander before D-Day. Selleck, although he doesn't look much like Ike, does give a good performance. Even so, I always felt as though Selleck as Ike, has far more on-screen charisma than I think Eisenhower had.

Still, the film shows the very tough balancing act that Ike had to play between the competing personalties.

I thought that Monty, Churchill and De Gaulle were captured quite well.

However, I was upset at the way Patton was portrayed in the film. The actor portraying him looked soft and pasty-faced and acted like a wimpering child. Patton may have been a lot of things, but I think the portrayal of him in this movie does him a great disservice.

What did you think of the movie?

< Message edited by Von Rom -- 6/1/2004 5:38:40 PM >


_____________________________

Post #: 1
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/1/2004 6:05:20 PM   
mavraam


Posts: 436
Joined: 5/11/2004
Status: offline
I liked it.

I thought the best parts were the personal, one on one conversations, especially with Churchill.

I too am skeptical of the conversation with Patton. I find it hard to believe he would behave that way. Still, I'm quite sure Patton would do anything to not get sent home. His greatest fear was that he would never get a chance to fight a great battle.

I wonder how accurate they were. I would be especially interested in knowing if Churchill ever said to Ike, "From this point forward, we're in this thing together. If it fails, we both go down together"

But overall I think it did a great job of capturing the sheer gravity and agony of the decisionmaking that went into this massive gamble.

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 2
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/1/2004 6:37:25 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mavraam

I liked it.

I thought the best parts were the personal, one on one conversations, especially with Churchill.

I too am skeptical of the conversation with Patton. I find it hard to believe he would behave that way. Still, I'm quite sure Patton would do anything to not get sent home. His greatest fear was that he would never get a chance to fight a great battle.

I wonder how accurate they were. I would be especially interested in knowing if Churchill ever said to Ike, "From this point forward, we're in this thing together. If it fails, we both go down together"

But overall I think it did a great job of capturing the sheer gravity and agony of the decisionmaking that went into this massive gamble.


At the beginning of the movie, it didn't state that the words spoken by the actors were actual converstaions, so it's hard to tell what was placed in the movie by the writer.

Overall, it does show the tremendous pressure Ike was under - the first film I have seen that details this. The movie is certainly worth seeing.

De Gaulle sure doesn't come off well, and seems to show what he was like from what I have read about him during his stay in England at the time.

Interesting when Ike meets with De Gaulle, Ike says: "The Vichy Government is the enemy. But they will be treated as Allies and will be liberated."

_____________________________


(in reply to mavraam)
Post #: 3
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/1/2004 7:46:22 PM   
mavraam


Posts: 436
Joined: 5/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Interesting when Ike meets with De Gaulle, Ike says: "The Vichy Government is the enemy. But they will be treated as Allies and will be liberated."


Its interesting that Ike tended to be diplomatic at first but when pressed, he had no problem stating something that boldly and directly! Also of note was his remark to Monty after his crack during the film about a quick thrust to Berlin (again). I don't remember the exact wording, but in effect he said "The broad front issue is decided. Let's not visit it again!" And that was that.

I don't know if Selleck's Ike was accurate, I just don't know enough about the man. But I really liked the character and I hope Ike was like that!

I do know a bit more about Churchill though having read a biography about him that was thicker than the Old Testament, and I would say the portrayal of him seemed quite accurate to me. A brilliant man who was an expert in both the military and politics and a man of great personal conviction and belief in the rightness of his cause. He also tended to be a great judge of character when it came to choosing people. If he liked you for the job, you were probably a very good choice.

So one could conclude, if they got Churchill right, and Monty, and De Gaulle, they probably got Ike right as well.

But tonight on A&E/History (not sure which) is a two hour docu on Ike. I'm looking forward to seeing how it compares.

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 4
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/1/2004 9:44:28 PM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
i loved it

i taped it of course

im a big fan of selleck. wen i was younger i watched magnum pi, but i dont know wat channel its on anymore.

i think selleck did a good job portraying ike

i do agree that patton would not act like that, tho i do agree that hed do just about anything to stay in the fight

i hated de gaulle. my exact words after watching him were - "wat a jerk, pompous french a@@hole"

of course that may not be politically correct, but if i remember right, de gaulle did act like a baby, and they showed that in the movie pretty well

5 out of 5 from me for this movie

and they did a nice job showing the amount of RAW PURE stress he was under

im gonnna watch it again tonite

_____________________________


(in reply to mavraam)
Post #: 5
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 12:24:26 AM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mavraam

quote:

Interesting when Ike meets with De Gaulle, Ike says: "The Vichy Government is the enemy. But they will be treated as Allies and will be liberated."


Its interesting that Ike tended to be diplomatic at first but when pressed, he had no problem stating something that boldly and directly! Also of note was his remark to Monty after his crack during the film about a quick thrust to Berlin (again). I don't remember the exact wording, but in effect he said "The broad front issue is decided. Let's not visit it again!" And that was that.

I don't know if Selleck's Ike was accurate, I just don't know enough about the man. But I really liked the character and I hope Ike was like that!

I do know a bit more about Churchill though having read a biography about him that was thicker than the Old Testament, and I would say the portrayal of him seemed quite accurate to me. A brilliant man who was an expert in both the military and politics and a man of great personal conviction and belief in the rightness of his cause. He also tended to be a great judge of character when it came to choosing people. If he liked you for the job, you were probably a very good choice.

So one could conclude, if they got Churchill right, and Monty, and De Gaulle, they probably got Ike right as well.

But tonight on A&E/History (not sure which) is a two hour docu on Ike. I'm looking forward to seeing how it compares.


They're showing the 2 hour bio on Ike tonight on A&E, and right after that the 2 hour movie again. Definitely worth watching :)

< Message edited by Von Rom -- 6/1/2004 10:30:46 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to mavraam)
Post #: 6
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 12:29:49 AM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marky

i loved it

i taped it of course

im a big fan of selleck. wen i was younger i watched magnum pi, but i dont know wat channel its on anymore.

i think selleck did a good job portraying ike

i do agree that patton would not act like that, tho i do agree that hed do just about anything to stay in the fight

i hated de gaulle. my exact words after watching him were - "wat a jerk, pompous french a@@hole"

of course that may not be politically correct, but if i remember right, de gaulle did act like a baby, and they showed that in the movie pretty well

5 out of 5 from me for this movie

and they did a nice job showing the amount of RAW PURE stress he was under

im gonnna watch it again tonite


No doubt about it, Selleck is a good actor.

It's amazing with all the conflicting personalities, pressures, etc, etc, that Ike was able to pull it all together.

Goes to show that the position of "The Most Powerful Man in History" needed to be diplomatic and self-effacing. . .

I'd like to learn more about Ike and what happened during this time period before the invasion. It makes for interesting viewing.

_____________________________


(in reply to marky)
Post #: 7
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 1:14:27 AM   
VictorH

 

Posts: 309
Joined: 9/3/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, U.S.
Status: offline
Excellent Show right down to Ike the Chain Smoker!

IN particular I was intrigued by the comments between Churchill and Ike at the beginning about the debate as to whether they should bomb Germany out of the war or invade. I really don't recall reading much about this debate and don't know if it actaully occurred to the degree aluded to in the show.

< Message edited by VictorH -- 6/1/2004 11:16:00 PM >

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 8
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 1:17:29 AM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
his bio is on tv?

wat time wat channel lol

do u know?

_____________________________


(in reply to VictorH)
Post #: 9
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 8:14:13 AM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VictorH

Excellent Show right down to Ike the Chain Smoker!

IN particular I was intrigued by the comments between Churchill and Ike at the beginning about the debate as to whether they should bomb Germany out of the war or invade. I really don't recall reading much about this debate and don't know if it actaully occurred to the degree aluded to in the show.


It is an interesting insight ito Allied strategy. I wonder how far the bombing campaign would have gone?

_____________________________


(in reply to VictorH)
Post #: 10
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 8:18:13 AM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marky

his bio is on tv?

wat time wat channel lol

do u know?


I think you missed it tonight. However, knowing A&E both Ike's bio and the movie will probably be repeated on the weekend. Check your TV guides

Now this is quality TV.

The two hour bio of Ike was quite interesting. I knew little about him. It was almost as if his entire life had been a preparation for what he would encounter in WWII. He was also friends with the other giants: Patton, MacArthur, etc. . .

_____________________________


(in reply to marky)
Post #: 11
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 8:58:32 AM   
dinsdale


Posts: 384
Joined: 5/1/2003
Status: offline
During the campaign DeGaulle and Leclerc threatened to disobey Eisenhower and march into Paris with or without his approval. I wonder what Patton would have done had he been Supreme Commander, and whether it would have been legal to hang them for mutiny :)

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 12
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 9:27:28 AM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Von Rom

quote:

ORIGINAL: marky

his bio is on tv?

wat time wat channel lol

do u know?


I think you missed it tonight. However, knowing A&E both Ike's bio and the movie will probably be repeated on the weekend. Check your TV guides

Now this is quality TV.

The two hour bio of Ike was quite interesting. I knew little about him. It was almost as if his entire life had been a preparation for what he would encounter in WWII. He was also friends with the other giants: Patton, MacArthur, etc. . .



like it was his destiny to be supreme commander in europe

o, i just got done taping the bio on him- very interesting

now im taping the movie again lol

the bio mite b on again 1 last time tonite after the movie is over

_____________________________


(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 13
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 9:32:54 AM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dinsdale

During the campaign DeGaulle and Leclerc threatened to disobey Eisenhower and march into Paris with or without his approval. I wonder what Patton would have done had he been Supreme Commander, and whether it would have been legal to hang them for mutiny :)


Heheh

Funny, I was thinking the same thing.

Imagine De Gaulle saying what he did to Ike, but saying it to Patton instead. Now that would have been an interesting exchange

I watched the movie again tonight, and still couldn't believe how De Gaulle talked to Ike. From what I understand the Allies had to let De Gaulle march into Paris with his French troops. This way, it looked like the French had done all the fighting to liberate Paris.

Makes you appreciate the difficulties encountered with the French authorities in the post-war world

_____________________________


(in reply to dinsdale)
Post #: 14
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 9:38:41 AM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marky

quote:

ORIGINAL: Von Rom

quote:

ORIGINAL: marky

his bio is on tv?

wat time wat channel lol

do u know?


I think you missed it tonight. However, knowing A&E both Ike's bio and the movie will probably be repeated on the weekend. Check your TV guides

Now this is quality TV.

The two hour bio of Ike was quite interesting. I knew little about him. It was almost as if his entire life had been a preparation for what he would encounter in WWII. He was also friends with the other giants: Patton, MacArthur, etc. . .



like it was his destiny to be supreme commander in europe


I've read a lot of history. It makes you wonder sometimes. . .

In WWII, all the right people were in just the right positions. . .

Imagine anyone else but Ike as Supreme Commander. I wonder how anyone else would have handled all that pressure; all those difficult personalities. . .

Especially the way De Gaulle talked to him: it must have taken supreme self-control on Ike's part to let that all pass. . .

Even Churchill, in his biography by Martin Gilbert, mentions that on the night he became Prime Minister (May 10, 1940), he felt like he walking with Destiny, and that his entire life had been but a preparation for the momentous events he was about to face. . .

< Message edited by Von Rom -- 6/2/2004 3:23:18 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to marky)
Post #: 15
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 10:33:58 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline
Selleck did a good job portraying Ike. Ike seemed much more benign when he was President than when he was a general. You don't get to be 4 star by being a pushover. When he became President he was more of a delegator but still held the reins of government. The movie showed how good he was in difficult political/military situations. As far as Selleck goes, I still like him better as a cowboy.

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 16
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 5:27:32 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drex

Selleck did a good job portraying Ike. Ike seemed much more benign when he was President than when he was a general. You don't get to be 4 star by being a pushover. When he became President he was more of a delegator but still held the reins of government. The movie showed how good he was in difficult political/military situations. As far as Selleck goes, I still like him better as a cowboy.


I think Ike was highly under-rated.

He surely knew how to play politics, and side-step those personality land-mines.

heheh

Selleck makes a good cowboy :)

Still, he is definitely coming into his own as an actor. . .

_____________________________


(in reply to Drex)
Post #: 17
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 5:35:24 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
I must say though, that after watching both Ike's bio and the movie, I have gained a far better appreciation of both the man and the leader.

I see in Ike's handling of many of the problems he faced, especially with the personalties involved, a similar approach that Lincoln used, when he was president during the Civil War.

It was said of Lincoln after he died that "Here lies the most perfect ruler of men."

MacArthur once said that in reading about the lives of Washington and Lincoln, he had found all the answers he needed in dealing with the problems he faced as a leader.

I wonder if Ike had read the same books?

< Message edited by Von Rom -- 6/2/2004 3:54:52 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 18
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 5:38:38 PM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
and speaking of destiny

all the bomb plots that should have killed hitler, but DIDNT

seems it was everyones destiny to play a part, and let WW2, and history unfold as it did

ww1 and 2 created the modern world

and ww1 caused ww2

ww1 was caused by a gunshot, and ww2 (in europe) was pretty much ENDED by a gunshot

like Ike and selleck said - "its the little things...."

_____________________________


(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 19
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 5:49:37 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marky

and speaking of destiny

all the bomb plots that should have killed hitler, but DIDNT

seems it was everyones destiny to play a part, and let WW2, and history unfold as it did

ww1 and 2 created the modern world

and ww1 caused ww2

ww1 was caused by a gunshot, and ww2 (in europe) was pretty much ENDED by a gunshot

like Ike and selleck said - "its the little things...."


So true.

I certainly hope this movie is being shown in Europe.

At a time of power hungry dictators and leaders in WWII, here was "The Most Powerful Man in History" who used that self-effacing power and the armies under his command, to achieve a greater good.

It tends to place everything in perspective :)

< Message edited by Von Rom -- 6/2/2004 3:53:08 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to marky)
Post #: 20
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 6:17:28 PM   
mavraam


Posts: 436
Joined: 5/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Von Rom

quote:

ORIGINAL: VictorH

Excellent Show right down to Ike the Chain Smoker!

IN particular I was intrigued by the comments between Churchill and Ike at the beginning about the debate as to whether they should bomb Germany out of the war or invade. I really don't recall reading much about this debate and don't know if it actaully occurred to the degree aluded to in the show.


It is an interesting insight ito Allied strategy. I wonder how far the bombing campaign would have gone?


According to a Wings Discovery documentary I was watching, we ran a long campaign of tactical bombing with the idea of destroying all of the German planes in the air or ground before the invasion so that they would have as little air resistance as possible. That would obviously helped a strategic bombing campaign as well.

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 21
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 6:19:43 PM   
mavraam


Posts: 436
Joined: 5/11/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I certainly hope this movie is being shown in Europe.


You know the drill:
a) They won't watch it.
b) They'll claim its simplistic American propoganda.
c) It won't change their perspective one bit.

Sad but true.

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 22
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 7:05:45 PM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
d. they cant stand the fact that America had to save their childish tail AGAIN

e. they hate being reminded of that fact

also VERY true imho.....

_____________________________


(in reply to mavraam)
Post #: 23
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 10:56:07 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mavraam

quote:

I certainly hope this movie is being shown in Europe.


You know the drill:
a) They won't watch it.
b) They'll claim its simplistic American propoganda.
c) It won't change their perspective one bit.

Sad but true.


I'm afraid you're right.

I think that means they'll keep right on making the same mistakes again. . .

_____________________________


(in reply to mavraam)
Post #: 24
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 11:10:06 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline
I missed the show, pity.

But, I am left to wonder, if my movie I have in my collection called Ike, would be like Tora Tora Tora is to the later movie Pearl Harbour (although I won't say this new Ike thing was that bad).

I thought the movie Ike was well enough done.

I must say though. I recently watched a long documentary on the post war Ike, and he sure was different as a president than as a military individual.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 25
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 11:15:58 PM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

I must say though. I recently watched a long documentary on the post war Ike, and he sure was different as a president than as a military individual.


In what ways, Les?

_____________________________


(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 26
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/2/2004 11:20:05 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline
Well in light of what I saw on the show, and in spite of how this will sound unamerican and antiamerican (which seems a knee jerk reaction lately to anything not glorifyng americans).

But he came across as a most manipulative swine. It was the material concerning the handling of Honduras.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Von Rom)
Post #: 27
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/3/2004 2:16:16 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
The movie provides a concise history of the personalities and is given to unfair portrayals in some instances. I suspect that portrayals are incorrect or generalised in every case but I don't know about all the characters to comment.

For example
PATTON

Patton's break down after being redressed for his slapping incident is one case in point. According to Ike's book Crusade in Europe (highly recommended) Paton visited Ike on several occassions at Ike's quarters where they enjoyed stimulating conversation well into the small hours. The sobbin on Ike's shoulder and the helmet dropping on the floor (what was all that about?) is supposed to show us that Patton had a wide range of emotion. however the movie portrays Patton as some kind of patsy. Unfair!
Certainly Ike reminded Patton to not make any more embarrasing speeches but I think the slapping incident had been dealt with and buried in Sicily. Bringing up the incident in the movie is the producer's way of reminding us of the background. I believe that this time-shifting of incidents gives the viewer some false understanding of the relationship between the two men who considered each other as close friends.

MONTGOMERY
Monty's call for the incisive strike on a narrow front (twice!) is another indelicate handling of events by the producers. Made only for US audiences and sure to be hammered in Britain, this incident totally glosses over the fact that in planning for the ivasion, it was Monty who insisted on the 5 division assault over the 3 division assault that had been originally proposed by the Americans. Interestingly, Ike recalls in his book that it was he, Ike, who insisted on the 5 Division front.
We also always forget that it was Monty who planned all his operations from the standpoint of supply. The set piece attack that riles American history buffs is certainly not the stuff of the incisive assault on a narrow front.
Ike, in his Crusade in Europe, mentions that at some time or other, every General pestered him for enough forces to make an incisive assault on Germany but this was much later. The reference to Monty no doubt reminds us all of the Arnhem attack which went so very wrong. Again, time shifting this into the Normandy planning phase is unfair.

Ike tells us that the planners of Overlord always understood fully the objective first of landing a force in France and then of advancing on a broad front to the Siegfried Line (Westwall). Only after that, the plan was to advance into Germany via the northern route- north of the Ardennes. He states that at no time was this plan ever abandoned, even momentarily. Judging by Ike's veiled dislike of Monty, one supposes that had Monty made such comments contrary to the 'plan' in public that Ike would have mentioned it.

DE GAULLE
De Gaulle not doubt was a pompous ass. Between him and Leclerc, there was enough trouble caused by prematurely capturing Paris and trying to hold Strasbourg that the events in the Ardennes eclipsed.

De Gaulle, as president, is well known for his NON! to Britain when they wanted to join the common market in the sixties while Germany was a full member. Strange bedfellows!Even so, portraying de Gaulle as a little man (he was 6'5" tall IIRC) is again unfair. Of course, Tome Sellick is no shorty so the casters would have been hard pressed to find an actor to play de Gaulle of suitable stature who was not a professional basketball player.

De Gaulle did what he believed was correct for France, however misundestood that might be then - or now- and the directors attempt to portray him as a petulant creep is, perhaps, childish.

EISENHOWER
Nobody can say any ill about Ike, can they? We like Ike, don't we?

OTHER
There will be many references to minor errors in the film. Ike wearing British boots and webbing on his visit to the 101st on June 6th (it happened on June 5th and Ike wore his usual dress uniform with shoes) is one of note. But those are so minor. I want to see history told honestly. My misgivings about the portrayals of key figures makes me wonder about the other figures of whom I know so little.

How accurate was it?

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 28
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/3/2004 3:21:32 AM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

Well in light of what I saw on the show, and in spite of how this will sound unamerican and antiamerican (which seems a knee jerk reaction lately to anything not glorifyng americans).

But he came across as a most manipulative swine. It was the material concerning the handling of Honduras.


Politics can be a nasty business, no doubt.

< Message edited by Von Rom -- 6/3/2004 1:28:10 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 29
RE: Ike: Countdown to D-Day - 6/3/2004 3:27:45 AM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Major Destruction

The movie provides a concise history of the personalities and is given to unfair portrayals in some instances. I suspect that portrayals are incorrect or generalised in every case but I don't know about all the characters to comment.

For example
PATTON

Patton's break down after being redressed for his slapping incident is one case in point. According to Ike's book Crusade in Europe (highly recommended) Paton visited Ike on several occassions at Ike's quarters where they enjoyed stimulating conversation well into the small hours. The sobbin on Ike's shoulder and the helmet dropping on the floor (what was all that about?) is supposed to show us that Patton had a wide range of emotion. however the movie portrays Patton as some kind of patsy. Unfair!
Certainly Ike reminded Patton to not make any more embarrasing speeches but I think the slapping incident had been dealt with and buried in Sicily. Bringing up the incident in the movie is the producer's way of reminding us of the background. I believe that this time-shifting of incidents gives the viewer some false understanding of the relationship between the two men who considered each other as close friends.

MONTGOMERY
Monty's call for the incisive strike on a narrow front (twice!) is another indelicate handling of events by the producers. Made only for US audiences and sure to be hammered in Britain, this incident totally glosses over the fact that in planning for the ivasion, it was Monty who insisted on the 5 division assault over the 3 division assault that had been originally proposed by the Americans. Interestingly, Ike recalls in his book that it was he, Ike, who insisted on the 5 Division front.
We also always forget that it was Monty who planned all his operations from the standpoint of supply. The set piece attack that riles American history buffs is certainly not the stuff of the incisive assault on a narrow front.
Ike, in his Crusade in Europe, mentions that at some time or other, every General pestered him for enough forces to make an incisive assault on Germany but this was much later. The reference to Monty no doubt reminds us all of the Arnhem attack which went so very wrong. Again, time shifting this into the Normandy planning phase is unfair.

Ike tells us that the planners of Overlord always understood fully the objective first of landing a force in France and then of advancing on a broad front to the Siegfried Line (Westwall). Only after that, the plan was to advance into Germany via the northern route- north of the Ardennes. He states that at no time was this plan ever abandoned, even momentarily. Judging by Ike's veiled dislike of Monty, one supposes that had Monty made such comments contrary to the 'plan' in public that Ike would have mentioned it.

DE GAULLE
De Gaulle not doubt was a pompous ass. Between him and Leclerc, there was enough trouble caused by prematurely capturing Paris and trying to hold Strasbourg that the events in the Ardennes eclipsed.

De Gaulle, as president, is well known for his NON! to Britain when they wanted to join the common market in the sixties while Germany was a full member. Strange bedfellows!Even so, portraying de Gaulle as a little man (he was 6'5" tall IIRC) is again unfair. Of course, Tome Sellick is no shorty so the casters would have been hard pressed to find an actor to play de Gaulle of suitable stature who was not a professional basketball player.

De Gaulle did what he believed was correct for France, however misundestood that might be then - or now- and the directors attempt to portray him as a petulant creep is, perhaps, childish.

EISENHOWER
Nobody can say any ill about Ike, can they? We like Ike, don't we?

OTHER
There will be many references to minor errors in the film. Ike wearing British boots and webbing on his visit to the 101st on June 6th (it happened on June 5th and Ike wore his usual dress uniform with shoes) is one of note. But those are so minor. I want to see history told honestly. My misgivings about the portrayals of key figures makes me wonder about the other figures of whom I know so little.

How accurate was it?


Great summary of personalities

I agree that there was so much in the film that was basically glossed over and/or summarized.

I have a feeling that the character portraits were condensed versions of those people (I thought all the character traits of each person was done rather well - except for Patton). This is a simplified approach, I agree, and lends itself to some distortion.

There was so much material that could have been covered in the span of time covered by the movie, that inevitably, I think, some, or many, details had to suffer.

If nothing else, the film at least leaves us with the impression of the difficulties that faced Ike.

I think any proper film on this subject would have to be many times longer than just two hours.

Goes to show you that there is no need for fiction, when there are so many great, true events and personalities to draw upon from history.

Cheers!

< Message edited by Von Rom -- 6/3/2004 1:30:28 AM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Major Destruction)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Ike: Countdown to D-Day Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

2.094