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Help please from the masters of design

 
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Help please from the masters of design - 6/28/2004 6:17:11 AM   
Klinkenhoffen

 

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/30/2003
Status: offline 		Hello all,
I need some help please. When I set up a PBEM I quite often will want to edit a map already created, moving start lines, victory hexes and sides of the map for countries. I will do this through the editor.

This is where the problem start. I will reposition the retreat/ reinforcement flags to what I think is the correct side. When the game is underway units will retreat forward towards the enemy which is very frustrating given how often this is occuring to me.

After the game I look at the map of my last game and the retreat hexes were in the right spot, player 1 was on the left etc. Evry thing appeared normal. But Both sides retreated the wrong way. AHHHH

My question. Is there a fool proof way to ensure that this doesn't happen?

Klink

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RE: Help please from the masters of design - 6/28/2004 10:55:51 PM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		When you say "reposition the retreat/reinforcement flags to what I think are the correct sides", does this mean you actually move them fromone side of the map to the other?

The retreat flags are set by the nations chosen; if they aren't the same ones as those in your PBEM battle setup, and if the date is not the same, these flags will get reset to their default settings.

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RE: Help please from the masters of design - 6/29/2004 3:11:55 AM   
Klinkenhoffen

 

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/30/2003
Status: offline 		By using the editor you can place the retreat and reinforcement flags anywhere on the map. This makes it independant of the national being played but dependent on who is player 1 and 2.

To further confuse the issue, in the editor there is a toggle so that you can swap sides. eg germany on the left or right.

So if the toggle is set for Germany on the right but you set up a game with player 1 as Germany then you will have to move the Reinforcement/retreat hexes to the other side of the map, as they are player dependant.ie Player 1 reinforcement/retreat hexes is on the left unless changed.

Klink

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RE: Help please from the masters of design - 6/30/2004 2:42:19 AM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		Map sides are determined by the nations involved and the date of the battle.
EXAMPLE:
German (Player 1) vs British (Player 2) in 1940 will give you German on the right side and Britain on the left.
German (Player 1) vs Britain (Player 2) in 1942 will give you German on the left side and Britain on the right.

If you set up the battle as No 1 above and edited the map, then used it for battle No 2, the retreat hexes will reverse themselves.

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RE: Help please from the masters of design - 7/1/2004 7:29:13 AM   
Klinkenhoffen

 

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/30/2003
Status: offline 		But I have edited the map. Both the start side and victory hexes in the editor and then saved it as a scenario map.

The question is how do I prevent the map from defaulting?

It must be able to be done otherwise then a US versus Germany battle in Western Europe would not be possible.

klink

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Post #: 5
RE: Help please from the masters of design - 7/1/2004 7:21:38 PM   
bchapman


Posts: 302
Joined: 3/30/2000
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline 		Klinkenhoffen,

quote:

Both the start side and victory hexes in the editor and then saved it as a scenario map.


Have you tried this?

quote:

You can take out former deployment data by saving map as a scenario to somewhere. Then delete *.rec of the scen, load it again and save map. Switch sides and !! place reinforcement and retreat flags to sides that you have intends to use.


I haven't tried this, but this was a solution that someone posted some time back. Hope it will work for you.

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RE: Help please from the masters of design - 7/2/2004 8:02:51 AM   
Klinkenhoffen

 

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/30/2003
Status: offline 		I havn't tried that yet but will tonight. It is always something simple.

If it works then you have saved me much frustration.

Thanks bchapman.

Klink

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Post #: 7
RE: Help please from the masters of design - 7/2/2004 5:32:03 PM   
plloyd


Posts: 179
Joined: 8/8/2001
From: Colorado, USA
Status: offline 		I have had this problem quite a lot. In PBEM games, the flags get arranged along the sides according to some internal national order. First country goes on the left, second on the right. The national order seems to be similar, though not exactly with, the flag order when choosing a country. An example would be, U.S. vs Germany, U.S. retreat and reinforcements would be on the left. If it was German vs. USSR, Germany is on the left. The flags seem to be assigned just before deplyment. The work around I have used in the past is to choose countries so that the retreat/reinforcement flags will go onto the correct sides for the game. Then switch nationalities for purchasing. Currently I have a Japanese force carrying German flags fighting U.S. Marines carrying Russian flags. You get the idea.

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RE: Help please from the masters of design - 7/2/2004 5:53:48 PM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Klinkenhoffen

But I have edited the map. Both the start side and victory hexes in the editor and then saved it as a scenario map.

The question is how do I prevent the map from defaulting?

It must be able to be done otherwise then a US versus Germany battle in Western Europe would not be possible.

klink


I'm not sure I understand the problem...a US vs German battle in Western Europe is certainly possible, with Germany on the right and US on the left, REGARDLESS of which Player takes which side. If I play the US as Player 2, my side of the map is still the left side in 1944...this is because the internal compass of the game makes the left side the West side, and the right side the East. None of this is dependent on which Player is the nation...it's all about the date of the battle and the nations involved.

I just completed a PBEM game where I was the USMC vs Germany in 1944 in France. I was Player One, since I set up the game. But my side of the board was the right side, because the game 'thinks' the Marines fought the Japanese from the East...

AFAIK, the starting sides are not changeable for anything besides a set scenario...even if you set the map that way in the editor, once it is used for a PBEM, the sides revert to the default settings. Further testing may be needed to verify this, though.

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Post #: 9
RE: Help please from the masters of design - 7/3/2004 7:42:44 AM   
Klinkenhoffen

 

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/30/2003
Status: offline 		FlashfyreSP,
what if I decide to play two games, same date. I play Germany for both. One game is against the USA, the other against the Soviet Union. Will the USA be on the left for that game and will the Soviets be on the right for that game?

But the problem still remains, the problem is where the retreat/reinforcement hexes are located. They are still based on who is player 1 and player 2. I am not convinced that the retreat reinforcement hexes move depending on time frame of the game. If in 1944 I play Germany as player 1, then the Germans will be on the right, but player1 (Germany's) retreat hexes are on the left. If I play as player 2 then both Germany and retreat/reinforcement hexes are on the right.

But how do I make it fool proof so that after a game has started I don't discover that the retreat direction is wrong?

I think Bchapman may have the answer but I havn't had a fiddle yet. It is just frustrating given that when I set up a PBEM I will usually choose a custom map and still edit the position of the victory hexes to make it more relistic to the game set up.

Klink

< Message edited by Klinkenhoffen -- 7/3/2004 5:36:26 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: Help please from the masters of design - 7/3/2004 8:22:01 PM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		I just tested this...Set up a Battle between Germany (Player 1) and Soviet Union (Player 2) in June 1944. The Germans set up on the left, the Soviets on the right. The German retreat and reinforcement flags were on the left side, in the middle of the map. The Soviets' flags were directly opposite, on the right side.

Set up another Battle between Germany (Player 1) and US Army (Player 2) in June 1944. The Germans set up on the right, the US on the left. The German flags were on the right side in the middle of the map, the US's were directly across on the left side.

Using the editor, I took a custom map and placed the German retreat flag near the top of the left side of the map, and the US retreat flag near the bottom of the right side. Saved the map in a new slot, then set up the same Battle as above. When deploying, the Germans set up on the right side, and their retreat flag was in the middle of the right map edge. The US set up on the left, and their retreat flag was in the middle of the left map edge.

I can only draw one conclusion: the retreat and reinforcement flags are solely dependent on the nations and date chosen, and are set when the player enters the Deployment phase. The flag position information is not saved as part of the map, unless it is inside a scenario fileset.

This being the case, I don't see how you could alter the map DURING the PBEM Battle setup; only if you can change the email files to scenario files, make changes, and then back again might it be possible.

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Post #: 11
RE: Help please from the masters of design - 7/3/2004 8:33:57 PM   
FlashfyreSP


Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline 		Just tried bchapman's suggestion, and it doesn't work. The retreat and reinforcement flags are reset to the default sides and positions, even if you select Custom Map As Designed.

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Post #: 12
RE: Help please from the masters of design - 7/4/2004 5:57:45 AM   
Klinkenhoffen

 

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/30/2003
Status: offline 		Thanks FlashfyreSp,
the problem is obviously something that Iam doing to upset the game. I 'll have a little experimenting and see how I go. Thanks for the information.

klink

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Post #: 13
RE: Help please from the masters of design - 7/17/2004 5:58:25 AM   
Klinkenhoffen

 

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/30/2003
Status: offline 		Still not working correctly.

Any other ideas?

Klink

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Post #: 14
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