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RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 9:14:42 AM

Faker than Hollywood

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/8/2004
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quote:

blame your Government

You ain't seen nothin yet-- wait 'till the UN enacts GLOBAL COMMONS TAXATION and see what that adds to your 0101010101...

(in reply to MG3)

Post #: 181

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 11:20:14 AM

frank1970

Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline

OK MG3, you haven�t answered my pm, you haven�t answered my �posting, therefore I think you are so much satisfied with the game you will not sell it?

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Post #: 182

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 11:46:18 AM

Didz

Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: Didz
Its a shame our US friends find the subject boring but then I would have to wonder why the hell they are reading a thread about EU sales in the first place. It actually has nothing to do with them.

It's a shame you believe Buck Beach represents all your US friends.

The title says (to paraphrase): "Wanna Buy My Game?" That might interest anyone. Then the company that hosts this forum and provided us with a great game gets attacked based on false assumptions. That might interest anyone that's a fan of Matrix games OR a fan of the truth.

Since Matrix is responding positively to the complaint I see no good reason to continue to browbeat them.

They are not false, and Matrix is not being attacked. This thread is highlighting a serious anomaly in the DR's EU order process and we Europeans are raising the issue with Matrix so it can be addressed.

Matrix are in fact dealing with it but whilst they are dealing with a perfectly valid complaint we are having to deal with a bunch of bored american's who don't seem able to grasp the nature of the problem but seem to consider themselves duty bound to have an opinion anyway.

< Message edited by Didz -- 7/8/2004 9:50:48 AM >

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Didz
Fortis balore et armis

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Post #: 183

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 12:39:35 PM

Marc von Martial

Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
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There have been a whole lot of false assumptions in this thread.

Now can we please stop what is developing slow but steady into a EU vs. US flame war?

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(in reply to Didz)

Post #: 184

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 3:20:29 PM

Jonathan Palfrey

Posts: 535
Joined: 4/10/2004
From: Sant Pere de Ribes, Spain
Status: offline

Surely the best practice when selling any product is to show the customer the price excluding tax AND the price including tax before he agrees to pay.

This shouldn't be difficult to do, and it minimizes any subsequent confusion and bad feeling.

It's not uncommon for a shop to show only the price excluding tax, and then slap the tax on top of it later; but I always feel this is less than honest and doesn't give me a good feeling about the shop.

From the customer's point of view, the price of a product is what he has to pay for it. If he has to pay tax, and you don't include the tax in the price, you're giving misleading information. Even if you warn in the small print that some tax is due.

Of course it would be nice if we didn't have to pay tax at all, but unfortunately we've already given so much money to governments that they can afford to employ lots of well-armed men in case we need any persuasion to carry on paying...

(in reply to Marc von Martial)

Post #: 185

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 3:32:04 PM

frank1970

Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

There have been a whole lot of false assumptions in this thread.

Now can we please stop what is developing slow but steady into a EU vs. US flame war?

SIR, YES SIR!

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Post #: 186

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 4:03:10 PM

ravinhood

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I really think the best way in all fairness to their Euro customers, is for Matrix to find a way for them to purchase their games without having to pay "any" taxes, just shipping and handling fees.

I don't like to see people over taxed and having to pay one tax and then a VAT tax on top of that is just imperialism to me.

So there yah go guys & gals (if any) at Matrix, find a way to sell your games to our foreign friends without them having to pay any tax or at least that VAT tax. ;)

(in reply to frank1970)

Post #: 187

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 4:53:52 PM

Didz

Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
I really think the best way in all fairness to their Euro customers, is for Matrix to find a way for them to purchase their games without having to pay "any" taxes, just shipping and handling fees.

Nice as that might be, I'm afraid its just not feasible. Even though Matrix do not add the VAT to the price on their US site the VAT will be added and charged upon delivery of the package in the EU. As has been demonstrated by the recent delivery of my 'War & Peace' film from Amazon.com. (see my thread Delivery charges to EU states)

The only way to avoid attracting VAT is to lie about the content of the package (either deliberately under valuing it or marking it as a gift) and nobody can expect Matrix to do that.

Where Matrix could act is in the choice of its shipping agents (if it turns out that the ones they are using are rip-off artists) or by splitting the purchase of CD back-ups from the digital download price. The $9.99 CD Back-up cost is below the import duty theshold for the EU and thus would not attract duty, whereas if the total order value is quoted it attracts duty on not just the back-up disk but the full game cost, even though in theory that was delivered electronically.

Mind you as Jeff just noted on my other thread, there is nothing to stop us Europeans making our own back-up copies of the game and not buying the CD back-ups from Matrix. Thereby, not triggerring the Import Duty process.

Personally, I don't mind paying the VAT. But I do object to paying arbitary Clearance Fee's added by the shipping agent without my consent and I do object ot not being given an accurate order cost before placing the order.

If Matrix can sort those two issues out I don't think there would be any further cause for complaint.

< Message edited by Didz -- 7/8/2004 2:56:07 PM >

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Post #: 188

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 4:54:56 PM

wodin

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From: England
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Matrix are selling their games at prices which normally include VAT when you buy them from a shop.

Did MAtrix research how much games are sold for in shops in the UK i.e 29.99 upto 39.99 and then forget that the VAT is already added to these prices?

Really your games, to not P~~S so many people off should be sold for either 29.99 upto �39.99 with VAT already included. This I feel is the main gripe. No one in the UK has ever gone in to a shop bought a game with a price sticker of 39.99 and then be charged more at the counter. Doesnt happen.

Yes your games are worth the extra money but no one likes to feel they have been cheated.

< Message edited by wodin -- 7/8/2004 2:55:17 PM >

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 189

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 5:08:41 PM

v Manstein

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In this case, as an EU citizen, I will order this game and enter any valid US postal address. Thit means I can avoid being overtaxed. If it is only the download I need, I won't have any trouble!!!

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 190

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 5:48:15 PM

RealChuckB

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Then you might (I don't know exactly about the DR store) run into the problem, that for US customers the billing address of the credit card has to match the "delivery" address you use, because US credit cards are normally set up this way. This will lead to your credit card payment getting rejected by the system.
Again, I am not sure how the DR system handles this.

Chuck

(in reply to v Manstein)

Post #: 191

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 5:55:49 PM

v Manstein

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Joined: 7/8/2004
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Really?

RolandRahn stated (page2) that he ordered it via the US shop and he didn't run into any trouble. He lives in Germany.

Well, I guess I can try it and if it doensn't work, I will find out.

alex

(in reply to RealChuckB)

Post #: 192

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 6:25:59 PM

RealChuckB

Posts: 284
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Well, someone might try it, someday ...

Often, this cross check is only used for high value purchases as an additional fraud check (And this it NOT saying that Matrixgames' products are NOT high value in themselves ...

)

Chuck

(in reply to v Manstein)

Post #: 193

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 6:34:42 PM

RealChuckB

Posts: 284
Joined: 9/29/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Didz

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
I really think the best way in all fairness to their Euro customers, is for Matrix to find a way for them to purchase their games without having to pay "any" taxes, just shipping and handling fees.

Nice as that might be, I'm afraid its just not feasible. Even though Matrix do not add the VAT to the price on their US site the VAT will be added and charged upon delivery of the package in the EU. As has been demonstrated by the recent delivery of my 'War & Peace' film from Amazon.com. (see my thread Delivery charges to EU states)

The only way to avoid attracting VAT is to lie about the content of the package (either deliberately under valuing it or marking it as a gift) and nobody can expect Matrix to do that.

Where Matrix could act is in the choice of its shipping agents (if it turns out that the ones they are using are rip-off artists) or by splitting the purchase of CD back-ups from the digital download price. The $9.99 CD Back-up cost is below the import duty theshold for the EU and thus would not attract duty, whereas if the total order value is quoted it attracts duty on not just the back-up disk but the full game cost, even though in theory that was delivered electronically.

Mind you as Jeff just noted on my other thread, there is nothing to stop us Europeans making our own back-up copies of the game and not buying the CD back-ups from Matrix. Thereby, not triggerring the Import Duty process.

Personally, I don't mind paying the VAT. But I do object to paying arbitary Clearance Fee's added by the shipping agent without my consent and I do object ot not being given an accurate order cost before placing the order.

If Matrix can sort those two issues out I don't think there would be any further cause for complaint.

Didz,

I think you are right. The interesting thing in this thread is, that the almost all the people who complain about the VAT itself, don't have to pay it. The people from the EU who have to pay it, normally don't complain about the fact that they have to pay it, but the way it is handled in the DR store ... interesting

And I totally agree with your point about giving this feedback to Matrixgames (if it is done in a informative and civilized manner) because their response shows, that they DO want to know about this, because we are all their (prospective) customers.

I am 100% sure that Matrixgames will address this issue in their upcoming discussions with DR in a way that it the most favorable for us, because these guys care about us.

Personally, what I find quite sad is, that although the flaws --that unquestionably exist in the DR system and that are generally known for a long time (DR's probably biggest customer is Symantec, in the same problems plague this shop for a log time now)-- DR's customer, Matrixgames and their customers (us) have to suffer for this and people seem to turn away from buying Matrixgames' products because of this, which is bad for all of us.

Chuck

(in reply to Didz)

Post #: 194

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 9:26:45 PM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck B.

I think you are right. The interesting thing in this thread is, that the almost all the people who complain about the VAT itself, don't have to pay it. The people from the EU who have to pay it, normally don't complain about the fact that they have to pay it, but the way it is handled in the DR store ... interesting

Quite true.

The reason is that to Euros, VAT isn't some sort of "extra" to be thought of in the same way as shipping costs, or indeed an import/export tax. It's a mainstream tax, and you pay it without thinking about it. Nobody would want to pay 17.5% (or whatever) "extra" but the simple fact is that if our governments didn't get the money from us that way they would just stick it on income tax instead.

VAT is actually a very equitable tax. It is not charged on "essentials" such as (uncooked) food and water supplies. In the UK at least it is charged at a much reduced rate on electricity and gas supplies to domestic customers. Unlike income tax, you can in that respect "choose" whether you pay it or not. I only mention all this at the risk of boring everybody stupid because there is a school, with which I have some sympathy, who believe VAT at an increased rate should actually replace income tax, and any local equivalents, in it's entirety. That isn't just a "Euro" thing either... it's just as applicable to the US or anywhere else.

< Message edited by Hertston -- 7/8/2004 7:28:12 PM >

(in reply to RealChuckB)

Post #: 195

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 9:35:15 PM

Belisarius

Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chuck B.

I think you are right. The interesting thing in this thread is, that the almost all the people who complain about the VAT itself, don't have to pay it. The people from the EU who have to pay it, normally don't complain about the fact that they have to pay it, but the way it is handled in the DR store ... interesting

Quite true.

The reason is that to Euros, VAT isn't some sort of "extra" to be thought of in the same way as shipping costs, or indeed an import/export tax. It's a mainstream tax, and you pay it without thinking about it. Nobody would want to pay 17.5% (or whatever) "extra" but the simple fact is that if our governments didn't get the money from us that way they would just stick it on income tax instead.

VAT is actually a very equitable tax. It is not charged on "essentials" such as (uncooked) food and water supplies. In the UK at least it is charged at a much reduced rate on electricity and gas supplies to domestic customers. Unlike income tax, you can in that respect "choose" whether you pay it or not. I only mention all this at the risk of boring everybody stupid is because there is a school, with which I have some sympathy, who believe VAT at an increased rate should actually replace income tax, and any local equivalents, in it's entirety. That isn't just a "Euro" thing either... it's just as applicable to the US or anywhere else.

Hertston,

You're welcome to see the VAT system in Sweden (aka "moms");

25% on EVERYTHING, with the following exceptions:

books, travels, services and admittance tickets: 6% (level 2)
food: 12% (level 1)

and get this; there are EXTRA taxes on alcohol, gasoline, and other such "luxuries"...

Considering we pay a 28%-33% (and over) income tax to start with, it's fun to see that up to 60% of your net pay ends up in the Government's pockets anyway. w00t.

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Post #: 196

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 10:27:28 PM

Cmdrcain

Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Palfrey

Surely the best practice when selling any product is to show the customer the price excluding tax AND the price including tax before he agrees to pay.

This shouldn't be difficult to do, and it minimizes any subsequent confusion and bad feeling.

It's not uncommon for a shop to show only the price excluding tax, and then slap the tax on top of it later; but I always feel this is less than honest and doesn't give me a good feeling about the shop.

From the customer's point of view, the price of a product is what he has to pay for it. If he has to pay tax, and you don't include the tax in the price, you're giving misleading information. Even if you warn in the small print that some tax is due.

Of course it would be nice if we didn't have to pay tax at all, but unfortunately we've already given so much money to governments that they can afford to employ lots of well-armed men in case we need any persuasion to carry on paying...

Well yes, before hit an confirm order to actually make the order and the credit transaction, the total of what you will be charged should be upfront, unless, and it can be possiable, the shipping/handling can change from whayt might be an estimate, however the price and any known taxes applied shold be in the total your going to be actually charged for plus the usually ESTIMATED shipping.

As its been pointed out theres a culture difference where in USa and some other places, tax is added after he total, so I go in a Walmart and gran a priced 5.49 DVD movie I'll at checkout get the Tax added and actually pay more then the 5.49 price.

Many online stores do give the total you will be charged at the point you would hit confirm and submit your credit card info.

If for some reason, DR needs the credit card number to verify
if buyer really is not in europe, then a submit that and a second confirm with actual total to finally process the order might be in line.

I'm sure Matrix will bring it up with DR about the way the full total is presented before final order confirm and order executed occurs.

(in reply to Jonathan Palfrey)

Post #: 197

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 10:27:56 PM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius

and get this; there are EXTRA taxes on alcohol, gasoline, and other such "luxuries"...

Yup, so do we on alcohol, tobacco and gasoline. The tobacco tax in particular is so high, it's estimated something like a third of cigarettes smoked here are either bought in abroad (France or Spain, usually) or smuggled in. It's the hypocrisy that's most annoying - the government always trying to balance persuading people to quit (allegedly) against billions in revenue (certainly). All it results in is nobody giving up, and the poor (smoking levels are much higher in the lowest earnings groups) getting poorer.

(in reply to Belisarius)

Post #: 198

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 10:35:57 PM

Cmdrcain

Posts: 1161
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From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

I really think the best way in all fairness to their Euro customers, is for Matrix to find a way for them to purchase their games without having to pay "any" taxes, just shipping and handling fees.

I don't like to see people over taxed and having to pay one tax and then a VAT tax on top of that is just imperialism to me.

So there yah go guys & gals (if any) at Matrix, find a way to sell your games to our foreign friends without them having to pay any tax or at least that VAT tax. ;)

Can't be done, if legally a tax is to be paid and it is not collected then Matrix would or DR would end up getting it collected off of them.

Remember the 2 Truths of life: Death and Taxes or to be correct taxes and death and more taxes (since your Estate is taxed after death

)

Even in the "states" as we are reffered to, state sales taxes for other states are collected if the business is construed as doing business in the buyers state, the move on thats being fought is for all states taxes to be collected no matter where buyer is...the politicans way out and greed for monies to pay for govt needs while cutting their taxes to their rich buddies

So its a bad idea to try not to pay proper taxes your obligated to paying...

God help the USA if a VAT tax of 15 pct up gets ever put up... bad enough we pay an Income tax

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 199

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 10:43:07 PM

wodin

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Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
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We have income tax aswell as VAT.

(in reply to Cmdrcain)

Post #: 200

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 10:50:28 PM

Cmdrcain

Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Matrix are selling their games at prices which normally include VAT when you buy them from a shop.

Did MAtrix research how much games are sold for in shops in the UK i.e 29.99 upto 39.99 and then forget that the VAT is already added to these prices?

Really your games, to not P~~S so many people off should be sold for either 29.99 upto �39.99 with VAT already included. This I feel is the main gripe. No one in the UK has ever gone in to a shop bought a game with a price sticker of 39.99 and then be charged more at the counter. Doesnt happen.

Yes your games are worth the extra money but no one likes to feel they have been cheated.

In USA, games are usually out at S39.99 and Upwards more like 59.99 dollars, on average and up, after a couple of YEARS some popular games are sold simply for 9.99 in a CD case, no box, no manuel (its electronic) but that after like
Age of Empires had been out and been selling at list price for quite some time.

Fresh, new, games don't go for below 39.99-69.99 in USA

Don't have conversion handy to convert it into pounds, but the point is New games don't come out cheap, we would like em cheap but they don't

I'd be interested in titles of games you thnk are low priced, it could be the games are what we pay here 9.99 to 19.99 for OLDER games like Doom, Age of Empirs, Civilization II, the games considered well "used" and replaced on shelves by like Civilization III so the stuff thats older thats been sold at list for a couple years is maybe sold in Britain at a lower price too with VAT added...in Jewel case only, no box.

Your low priced software likely is what we pay 9.99-19.99 for, older , now discounted versions of a game line.

Got some Title names?

< Message edited by Cmdrcain -- 7/8/2004 4:06:04 PM >

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 201

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 11:00:12 PM

Cmdrcain

Posts: 1161
Joined: 8/21/2000
From: Rebuilding FLA, Busy Repairing!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

VAT is actually a very equitable tax. It is not charged on "essentials" such as (uncooked) food and water supplies. In the UK at least it is charged at a much reduced rate on electricity and gas supplies to domestic customers. Unlike income tax, you can in that respect "choose" whether you pay it or not. I only mention all this at the risk of boring everybody stupid because there is a school, with which I have some sympathy, who believe VAT at an increased rate should actually replace income tax, and any local equivalents, in it's entirety. That isn't just a "Euro" thing either... it's just as applicable to the US or anywhere else.

VAT doesn't sound any different from the STATE sales taxes we pay,
those sales taxes have uncooked food exemptions too, and a few other exemptions like I believe Medicial.

But Buy a car, A meal in resturant, etc you pay sales tax but ours is less 6-7 pct through it used be far less, in my stat also each area can vote in a local added sales tax like 1 pct more to pay for say building extra

Jails

So even within some states the "sales tax" can vary from the Normal state sales tax.

Mind you we have other taxes, some states have state income taxes on top of our Federal sales tax and we pay Gas tax on buying gas plus any other taxes are applied to that price so its a tax on a tax on a tax sometimes...

The Forefathers are spinning in their graves I'm sure

Lets face it people, no matter where you live, you can be sure theres taxes..

(in reply to Hertston)

Post #: 202

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/8/2004 11:44:18 PM

Belisarius

Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius

and get this; there are EXTRA taxes on alcohol, gasoline, and other such "luxuries"...

Yup, so do we on alcohol, tobacco and gasoline. The tobacco tax in particular is so high, it's estimated something like a third of cigarettes smoked here are either bought in abroad (France or Spain, usually) or smuggled in. It's the hypocrisy that's most annoying - the government always trying to balance persuading people to quit (allegedly) against billions in revenue (certainly). All it results in is nobody giving up, and the poor (smoking levels are much higher in the lowest earnings groups) getting poorer.

Yep, uh-huh, forgot about the tobacco. I do think however that it's not as high as in the UK... but we have a similar "problem" with the alchohol. Prices are 30-50% lower on hard liquor (40% by volume) in Denmark and Finland, even less in Germany and Estonia. And with everyone being EU members and the new duty free quotas, you get the picture. Domestic booze sales plummet since January, but we drink more. Heh. Free market powers at work. You can't hold it back by taxing the hell out of it.

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Post #: 203

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/9/2004 1:00:16 AM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline

I think we need another revolution and a tea party and this time it will be a world tea party. heh I'm really gettin sick n tired of taxes on this and taxes on that and taxing booze and cigarettes like 3x to 4x it's acutal price. You know if we didn't have taxes we wouldn't have welfare and armies, that means two things, people would "have" to work and nobody could goto war cause there would be no funds to support it. ;)

When our government imposed "income tax" it was only suppose to be for the war effort, and that seemed reasonable, but, boy, when they saw all that extra money they were getting from us, they decides to leave it in law and now they have carpet baggers that come take everything you got if you don't pay it.

And the one thing that really bugs me, if I buy a car brand new, I pay tax on it, then if I sell the car the person that buys it has to pay another tax on it, and if that person sells the car the next person has to pay tax on it, that's the most rediculous thing I ever heard, an item should only be taxable ONCE and only ONCE.

We have another wonderful taxing policy here as well, called capital gains tax, now say you have some stock that makes a large increase in the stock market, you just made a capital gain, and you have to pay tax on that gain, even if the stock drops out of the ceiling later on and you still own it. Do they give you your tax back? lol hell no.

Heh, don't get me started on taxes and taxing, I think it's one big government hand in my pocket myself, I say one tax all year long, call it income, federal or whatever you want to, but, you are only taxed once and one amount and nothing else. ;)

(in reply to Belisarius)

Post #: 204

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/9/2004 2:01:56 AM

Didz

Posts: 728
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: UK
Status: offline

One thing thats really 'pisses me off' in this country at the moment is New Labaa's fetish for Toll Roads.

I mean do they think we're all thick or something?

They claim these new toll roads only exist to ease congestion, then they stick a bloody toll booth on it in order to create a queue.

I make a point of avoiding using them but its damned hard to do because they make sure that all the signage is carefully configured to con you into going down them instead of sticking to the original route. And when you do, you get fleeced for �2.00 if your in a car or �10 in a van or lorry. Which is taxation pure and simple, you are taxed for using a road for which you have already been taxed to pay for as part of your Road Tax, along with petrol and diesel tax.

So, in effect the government has taken our money built us a road and then charged us for using it, except of course it isn't a new road because there was already a road there in the first place. So in fact they took our money built us a second road we didn't actually need, going to exactly the same place as an existing road and then expect us to pay to use the new road instead of using the old one becuase we're the only idiots stupid enough to pay an extra �2 to go to exactly the same place everyone else is going. Only a twat like Blair could come up with something that draft and expect drivers to be that dumb.

_____________________________

Didz
Fortis balore et armis

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 205

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/9/2004 2:28:23 AM

Golf33

Posts: 1962
Joined: 3/29/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Yup, so do we on alcohol, tobacco and gasoline. The tobacco tax in particular is so high, it's estimated something like a third of cigarettes smoked here are either bought in abroad (France or Spain, usually) or smuggled in. It's the hypocrisy that's most annoying - the government always trying to balance persuading people to quit (allegedly) against billions in revenue (certainly). All it results in is nobody giving up, and the poor (smoking levels are much higher in the lowest earnings groups) getting poorer.

Sounds fair enough to me. Smokers cost an enormous amount of money in government-funded healthcare, so it's only fair that duties on cigarettes should offset at least a small proportion of that cost. Personally I'd deny medical treatment for smoking-related complaints to anyone who either started in the last 20 years, and/or failed to quit smoking on being told to do so by a doctor.

Do you think we've strayed far enough from the topic yet?

Regards
33

_____________________________

Steve Golf33 Long

(in reply to Hertston)

Post #: 206

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/9/2004 11:49:14 AM

Marc von Martial

Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Golf33

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Yup, so do we on alcohol, tobacco and gasoline. The tobacco tax in particular is so high, it's estimated something like a third of cigarettes smoked here are either bought in abroad (France or Spain, usually) or smuggled in. It's the hypocrisy that's most annoying - the government always trying to balance persuading people to quit (allegedly) against billions in revenue (certainly). All it results in is nobody giving up, and the poor (smoking levels are much higher in the lowest earnings groups) getting poorer.

Sounds fair enough to me. Smokers cost an enormous amount of money in government-funded healthcare, so it's only fair that duties on cigarettes should offset at least a small proportion of that cost. Personally I'd deny medical treatment for smoking-related complaints to anyone who either started in the last 20 years, and/or failed to quit smoking on being told to do so by a doctor.

Then tax alcohol, cars, fastfood, candy, snacks, computer games, everything that polutes air, water and soil at least in the same amount then cigarettes. That only would be fair. All of the above cost the health system vast ammounts of money.

Why is is only the smokers that should pay for their unhealthy hobby, huh?

Face it, without all the taxes smokers pay a lot of our nice western countries would be bancrupt allready.

In Germany the tabacco tax is on 2nd rank (tax on fuel is 1st) with 13,8 Mrd. EUR (2002). that�s quite a pretty income.

Actually a non smoker society would costs the health system more money. Non smoking people live (in average) 8 years longer. That is 8 years more with incredible high health costs (your last 10 years suck up around 85% of the total money you need for your personal health care).

< Message edited by Marc Schwanebeck -- 7/9/2004 4:50:21 PM >

_____________________________

Marc von Martial
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(in reply to Golf33)

Post #: 207

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/9/2004 12:26:33 PM

Hartley

Posts: 255
Joined: 6/2/2003
Status: offline

quote:

25% on EVERYTHING, with the following exceptions:

books, travels, services and admittance tickets: 6% (level 2)
food: 12% (level 1)

and get this; there are EXTRA taxes on alcohol, gasoline, and other such "luxuries"...

Considering we pay a 28%-33% (and over) income tax to start with, it's fun to see that up to 60% of your net pay ends up in the Government's pockets anyway. w00t.

Which is why your tennis players all move to Monte Carlo...

(in reply to Belisarius)

Post #: 208

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/9/2004 12:43:19 PM

eg0master

Posts: 161
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius

You're welcome to see the VAT system in Sweden (aka "moms");

25% on EVERYTHING, with the following exceptions:

books, travels, services and admittance tickets: 6% (level 2)
food: 12% (level 1)

and get this; there are EXTRA taxes on alcohol, gasoline, and other such "luxuries"...

Considering we pay a 28%-33% (and over) income tax to start with, it's fun to see that up to 60% of your net pay ends up in the Government's pockets anyway. w00t.

28-33% income tax is only for low and medium income... If your income is larger than about 2400 EUR/month you pay around 50% income tax on all income above 2400 EUR/month...

And the most funny part about the "high income tax" is that if they removed it and increased the income tax for everybody with one or 2 percent it would generate the same income for the goverment... But hey! We live in sweden and if you earn a lot of mony you should pay a higher percentage of the income in taxes...

But to make this better... The company employing you have to pay an employment tax (same if you're self employed but it's called something else) that is about 32% of your income BEFORE taxes...
To explain: If your company wants to spend 1000 EUR to pay you they first have to remove the employment tax. 1000 / 1.32 = 757.58 EUR as salary. Lets say 30% income taxes so you get 757.58 * 0.7 = 530.30 EUR in your pocket (unless this is extra pay and your total salary exceeds the limit for high income tax in which case you get about 375 EUR in your pocket). Add VAT to this and see how much mony actually is payed for something...

(in reply to Belisarius)

Post #: 209

RE: Anyone here who wants to buy my Game? - 7/9/2004 5:20:23 PM

WhoCares

Posts: 653
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline

Just a little notification that they are activly working on the issue (visit the store pages of the various regions):

The VAT information is now a bit more prominent with the full information on the main screen (instead of a popup before, iirc), but still no total incl. VAT before payment, it seems. Maybe another button next to submit to a preview invoice popup after the form is complete?!

The current prices:

$ (1.0) - EURO (1.2) - GBP (1.85)
DL: 69,99 - 66.96 - 45.81
CD: 9.99 - 11.74 - 11.74

-----------------------------------------------
Tot. 79.98 78.70 57.55

in $ 79.98 94.44 106.46
(no VAT included!)

quote:

(from the VAT information)
For customers from Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, and UK the national VAT rate will be applied. For all other EU customers, the UK VAT rate of 17.5% will be applied.

I would have to check for this one - wouldn't want to pay the 17.5% if we in Germany have 16%...

< Message edited by WhoCares -- 7/9/2004 4:32:19 PM >

(in reply to eg0master)

Post #: 210