RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies?

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 3:18:34 PM

Captain Cruft

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I find that experimenting to find all these things out is part of the fun

The manual could do with some work though ...

P.S. Assuming that oil/resource distribution by rail follows the same "supply path" rule as normal supply distribution - oil/resources will propagate out along 25 hexes of rail from the port where they are landed.

< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 7/14/2004 1:24:29 PM >

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Post #: 31

RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 3:25:22 PM

mc3744

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This thread is vital

Please keep it up. I need to know more. I'm playing the big campaign PBEM and I feel lost as to where/from/how ...what the hell to do with supplies and fuel!!

Does it make sense to use Pearl as a hub between San Francisco and OZ? Or is it better to ship directly?

Somehwere someone said do not ship to Sydney and Brisbane. I don't understand why!?!
To where then?

Thanks for the help

(in reply to CJ Martin)

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 4:02:27 PM

Banquet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

P.S. Assuming that oil/resource distribution by rail follows the same "supply path" rule as normal supply distribution - oil/resources will propagate out along 25 hexes of rail from the port where they are landed.

I thought it was 90 hexes? I am getting mixed up with something else?

I am starting to get to grips with the production a little but still find it confusing. I wish there was some kind of indication for each base showing how much resouces/oil were coming in, where it coming from, what fuel and supplies were being produced and where they were going!

Alternatively some kind of map overlay showing the flow of supplies/oil/fuel/resources would be nice. There seems to be so little information it's just guesswork trying to plan it.

< Message edited by Banquet -- 7/14/2004 2:04:56 PM >

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 4:33:55 PM

Captain Cruft

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Banquet
I thought it was 90 hexes? I am getting mixed up with something else?

That's the "supply path" used when deciding whether to allow march orders for LCUs. The "supply range" for delivering supplies is 25 hexes by rail, which is what I meant sorry.

I'm not sure the rail supply path value is 90 hexes either, can't remember the formula ...

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 7:00:18 PM

mc3744

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Banquet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

I am starting to get to grips with the production a little but still find it confusing. I wish there was some kind of indication for each base showing how much resouces/oil were coming in, where it coming from, what fuel and supplies were being produced and where they were going!

Alternatively some kind of map overlay showing the flow of supplies/oil/fuel/resources would be nice. There seems to be so little information it's just guesswork trying to plan it.

That's just a GREAT IDEA

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 7:11:55 PM

Mr.Frag

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The numbers are NEVER in hexes. They are flow distances.

Each hex travelled through is either rail, road, trail or nothing.

Each of these hex types has a different *cost* for moving through the hex.

Read 14.3 (pg 188)

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 7:27:42 PM

Banquet

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I was referring more to the movement of oil and resources than supply for ground units (unless it works the same way?)

On the subject of 14.3, I don't understand the example;

I 'get' the part about the units supply being 825 (900-25-50) But why if there was an enemy unit in Lae would the move be not allowed? Why does it go on to mention supplies being automatically moved (isn't that the only way?) And further, why does the next example start with a value of 100? 900 is for ground units, no? (what other type of units could there be for overland supply movement?)

My grasp of this subject is shaky, at best

< Message edited by Banquet -- 7/14/2004 5:28:56 PM >

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 7:41:11 PM

Mr.Frag

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There are 4 completely separate concepts all rolled into one thing.

(a) Supply flow for units from a base

(b) Supply flow for bases from a base

(c) goods flow for industry (base to base)

(d) unit movement and the effect of enemies in the way.

The math is the same, but the maximum ranges differ.

It is probably the second most complex thing in the game to understand.

(c) is a little special because it is based on a 3 day cycle and the range changes each day of that cycle.

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 7:45:51 PM

Banquet

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I'm steering clear of the 1st most complicated thing, then!

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 9:14:40 PM

Damien Thorn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
(c) goods flow for industry (base to base)
(c) is a little special because it is based on a 3 day cycle and the range changes each day of that cycle.

What do you mean a "3 day cycle"? If a base has an oil production of 100 does that mean it produces 100 every third day or 300 every third day or 100 per day?

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 9:18:17 PM

Mr.Frag

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Nope, when shuffling resources/oil, it cycles through 3 separate ranges.

A long range pull

A medium range pull

A short range pull

Mike could probably explain why it needs to be that way, I just look at it from the standpoint it works.

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/14/2004 9:28:55 PM

Tophat

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My fix........get Oil and Resources to OZ............keep track of consuption from turn to turn...........and have mini convoys taking and dumpint the "stuff" in the big 4 ports! Yep ASW flights out of those ports as well!
Still haven't seen this allied asw death flotilla people keep decrying!
Oh....and on numerous occassions the japs have depthcharged me for little or no damage!

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/15/2004 2:58:40 AM

tsimmonds

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What about China? Looks like there is a group of centers in the north--namely Lanchow, Yenen and Sian--that could easily get cut off from the rest of China. If IJA cuts the Sian-Chungking road, or takes Sian outright, what are the implications for production by the Allies of supply and replacements in the now-separated parts of China? The big oil center is in Lanchow, most of the manpower, HI and resources are in the southern part of the country. How important is it to maintain the Sian-Chungking link?

A) doesn't matter in the slightest
B) nice to have but not vital
C) pretty darned important
D) you're screwed if you don't

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/15/2004 3:34:18 AM

Mr.Frag

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quote:

C) pretty darned important

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/15/2004 3:49:56 AM

tsimmonds

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

C) pretty darned important

Just the fellow I was hoping would show up. Thanks Frag. So now that I have your attention....is this more important than, say, denying the IJA the use of the Canton-Nanching rail link? The Hanoi-Canton rail link? IYO, is there any single objective in China, outside Yunan-Chengtu-Chungking, and Lanchow itself, that is more important than Sian?

Maybe I should elaborate. Yunan-Chengtu-Chungking has 35 Manpower, 400 HI and 900 Resource but only 75 Oil. Lanchow-Yenen-Sian has 24 Manpower, 420 HI, 420 Resource and 150 Oil. Is Oil the limiting factor here? Does the Lanchow-Yenen-Sian group consume all of its oil itself, or does it have enough to ship to Chungking? I know, I could, can, and should figure this out myself, but this single example would be extremely helpful in figuring out this puzzle across the map. Also, Changsha has a stockpile of some 1600 Oil and 3000 Resource; does this stockpile completely overshadow the Oil and Resource production potential of the two areas in question, or is this just a few days' production?

(Edit: never mind, I'll figure this out on my own and post it back here next week--leaving town for a few days, just discovered laptop is fried

)

Anyone? I know there's gotta be some China fanboys out there, fighting on either side....isn't this what this war was about? Or has China by this time become, um, irrelevant?

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 7/14/2004 10:42:55 PM >

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/15/2004 10:03:35 PM

moses

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I added it up a few days ago. Oz produces 450 Oil per day and has 2670 heavy industry. So if i'm not mistaken 2220 Oil per day is needed to maximize production. So a convoys on the way?!

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/15/2004 10:09:43 PM

Banquet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: moses

I added it up a few days ago. Oz produces 450 Oil per day and has 2670 heavy industry. So if i'm not mistaken 2220 Oil per day is needed to maximize production. So a convoys on the way?!

Is that including the fact that 1 oil centre produces 6 oil points?

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/15/2004 10:21:10 PM

Mr.Frag

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quote:

Is that including the fact that 1 oil centre produces 6 oil points?

Yep, thats based on 6x the 75 Oil.

Keep in mind that Oz doesn't NEED the HI, the just need the 450 to keep the VERY few aircraft factories producing.

The Allies have way more then is required.

You also have to think differently when looking at Japan.

The HI produces supply to feed people.

There is NEVER enough Oil to keep all of Japan's HI running everywhere. You need to feed the 3 zones as required to keep supply being produced where you need supply. It is all about supply in China.

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/15/2004 10:47:17 PM

Banquet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Is that including the fact that 1 oil centre produces 6 oil points?

Yep, thats based on 6x the 75 Oil.

Keep in mind that Oz doesn't NEED the HI, the just need the 450 to keep the VERY few aircraft factories producing.

The Allies have way more then is required.

You also have to think differently when looking at Japan.

The HI produces supply to feed people.

There is NEVER enough Oil to keep all of Japan's HI running everywhere. You need to feed the 3 zones as required to keep supply being produced where you need supply. It is all about supply in China.

So, what would happen if you did supply OZ with the full amount of oil to feed the 2670 heavy industry? (I presume you'd need 2670*2=5340 oil?)

If you could feed all that HI would you get growth of HI and more replacement aircraft? Or does that side of things only apply to the Japanese?

< Message edited by Banquet -- 7/15/2004 8:48:13 PM >

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/15/2004 11:14:18 PM

von Murrin

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You'd get more supply.

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/16/2004 12:16:01 AM

Mr.Frag

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quote:

You'd get more supply.

Exactly and some more Fuel.

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/16/2004 7:55:41 AM

Banquet

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why would you get more supply for shipping OIL to OZ?? For more supply you'd need to ship resources surely?!

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/16/2004 8:01:15 AM

bradfordkay

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Supply also includes diesel, avgas, petrol, and lubricating oils. Fuel is naval fuel that feeds the boilers on large ships. While PTs used avgas, in the game they are abstracted to naval fuel to standardise ship refueling rules.

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/16/2004 3:33:10 PM

Captain Cruft

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Banquet

why would you get more supply for shipping OIL to OZ?? For more supply you'd need to ship resources surely?!

HI produces supply as well.

The basics of the production system, off the top of my head:-

Oil Bases:
   PRODUCE Oil and Fuel (stored locally)
Resources Bases:
   PRODUCE Resources and Supply (stored locally)
Heavy Industry Bases:
   CONSUME Oil and Resources (stored locally) and
   PRODUCE Supply and Fuel (stored locally) and HI Points (stored globally)

So you need to get Oil and Resources to your Heavy Industry sites. All else follows from there.

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/16/2004 4:39:24 PM

The Gnome

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Ok so in summary, by adding oil and resources to OZ the benefits are:
-More supply production
-More fuel production
-More aircraft production
-More war material (squads, guns, vehicles)?

Is it worth sending resources/oil from the US or will it result in no net gain?

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/16/2004 5:12:24 PM

Captain Cruft

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

Ok so in summary, by adding oil and resources to OZ the benefits are:
-More supply production
-More fuel production
-More aircraft production
-More war material (squads, guns, vehicles)?

Is it worth sending resources/oil from the US or will it result in no net gain?

I don't know about actual places and numbers, try it and see

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/16/2004 5:54:46 PM

PeteG662

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Try pulling as much out of DEI in the beginning to OZ to deny the Japs and also to bulk up OZ...after that I don't know since I haven't gotten there yet!

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/16/2004 6:07:48 PM

Mr.Frag

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-More supply production - YES
-More fuel production - YES
-More aircraft production - NO
-More war material (squads, guns, vehicles)? - NO

The factories are already running at full speed, more stull does not make them produce more because they are already maxed.

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/16/2004 6:11:27 PM

The Gnome

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

-More supply production - YES
-More fuel production - YES
-More aircraft production - NO
-More war material (squads, guns, vehicles)? - NO

The factories are already running at full speed, more stull does not make them produce more because they are already maxed.

Thanks man, clears up more confusion in my head.

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RE: What do I need to do production/supply-wise as allies? - 7/16/2004 6:27:23 PM

Captain Cruft

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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Gnome

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

-More supply production - YES
-More fuel production - YES
-More aircraft production - NO
-More war material (squads, guns, vehicles)? - NO

The factories are already running at full speed, more stull does not make them produce more because they are already maxed.

Thanks man, clears up more confusion in my head.

That is true only assuming Japan has not invaded the American widget teleportation facility at the "USA" base

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