RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test

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RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/29/2004 10:40:03 PM

Arnir

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From: Alberta. In Texas.
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Okay, so does all this mean that we now have to test the US 1000lb GP bomb against Tigers, Panthers and Shermans. And if the animals and/or general is not available, we have to bomb the respective tanks instead?

I have to give the WWII German war machine credit for one thing, it pokes its head into places that it never went. What would have happened on Okinawa if the Japanese had the new German Panzerkampfhampsterwagon Mk. VIIaR? Etc.

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Post #: 91

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/29/2004 10:41:35 PM

mdiehl

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
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quote:

Thats you saying its my theory. No problem though, as i said, if you wish to not purchase the book and exorcise yourself of the gross errors you've posted here, that is of course your choice.

I've made no gross errors. Yamato. She sure was Japanese. In your world view I guess that makes her, in theory, unsinkable. And of course, since in theory she was unsinkable, rumours of her sinking must be mere propaganda.

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Post #: 92

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/29/2004 10:43:21 PM

Bradley7735

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Joined: 7/12/2004
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Wow. This thread is awesome. I just love to listen to you guys who know massive amounts of detail, but still disagree. It's one of the best things about this forum.

Anyway, I have a suggestion. I don't know much about the US 1000lb bomb, or the armor of the Yamato, but....

I think we can all agree that even non armor piercing bombs still cause fires. And that fires will cause more sys damage. Someone even said that a ship can burn to 99 sys damage from fire, but won't sink. There's the problem. How many ships sank from exploding fires? (Taiho was one for sure)

How about one of the future patches code that there is a small chance that large fires will cause the critical hit massive explosion thing. That means that ships that have massive fires can sink from them. This would definitely simulate the Yamato sinking from the bomb that might have set off it's secondary magazine explosion. (not sure if I got that right)

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

bc

(in reply to mdiehl)

Post #: 93

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/29/2004 10:49:42 PM

mdiehl

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As I understand it, Nik's claim is that no fire caused by a non-penetrating-the-main-deck-armor hit could have threatened Yamato's main magazines. Hence no big explosion and no sinking could be caused by an uncontrolled fire unless that fire was started within the citidel by a penetrating bomb or shell hit. If you believe him, then there's no need for a critical hit effect.

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Post #: 94

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/29/2004 11:13:24 PM

Nikademus

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Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

I've made no gross errors. Yamato. She sure was Japanese. In your world view I guess that makes her, in theory, unsinkable. And of course, since in theory she was unsinkable, rumours of her sinking must be mere propaganda.

Yeah, you have...7 times running now. I also dont recall ever saying the Yamato was invincible. Pehaps you could quote the section in this thread where i have? All i recall saying was to reitterate my recommendation that you read G&D as it contains the most detailed account of Yamato's damage.

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Post #: 95

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/29/2004 11:24:39 PM

SunDevil_MatrixForum

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
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Ok, here is the book that will finally end this discussion.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0764553526/qid=1091132598/sr=1-7/ref=sr_1_7/104-6538545-0049543?v=glance&s=books

I couldn't find the book that Nik recommended on Amazon, so this one should do.

< Message edited by SunDevil -- 7/29/2004 9:25:47 PM >

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 96

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/29/2004 11:32:19 PM

Nikademus

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From: Alien spacecraft
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LOL.....good one SD.

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Post #: 97

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/29/2004 11:47:09 PM

MadDawg

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Joined: 6/24/2004
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quote:

Then I submit you need to read a little more. One bomb killed Yamato... or rather, WOULD have killed her except that she turned turtle from torpedo hits first. IIRC one or teh other of Yamato or Musashi was sent back to the yard after a close abroad bomb near miss dropped by a B17 in 1943. Not so surprising as it would, if it hit close enough, had an effect rather more like that of a modest torpedo or mine. rumours of "scuttling") was just the orchestra playing an encore as the curtains came down.

And I submit you take a chill pill before you have some kind of seizure

. Seriously though, my point was that a single bomb itself would have been very unlikely to hurt here, I was not referring to any fire that man have been caused by said bomb.

Dawg

< Message edited by MadDawg -- 7/29/2004 9:55:12 PM >

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Post #: 98

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/29/2004 11:49:51 PM

barbarrossa

Posts: 359
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: Shangri-La
Status: offline

Not THIS again!!!!

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Post #: 99

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/30/2004 12:09:35 AM

mdiehl

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Joined: 10/21/2000
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quote:

And I submit you take a chill pill before you have some kind of seizure. Seriously though, my point was that a single bomb itself would have been very unlikely to hurt here, I was not referring to any fire that man have been caused by said bomb.

Sorry about the snarkiness. But I think that's the point. The bomb causes the fire. The fire sinks the ship, eventually, within a few hours.

And even non-penetrating hits on Yamato caused flooding that required counterflooding.

< Message edited by mdiehl -- 7/29/2004 10:11:29 PM >

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Post #: 100

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/30/2004 12:24:19 AM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MadDawg

And I submit you take a chill pill before you have some kind of seizure . Seriously though, my point was that a single bomb itself would have been very unlikely to hurt here, I was not referring to any fire that man have been caused by said bomb.

Dawg

Very true MD....while fire is a danger to any ship, in truth, Yamato was not "doomed" to die by fire thereby is not an example of an exception.

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 7/29/2004 10:28:23 PM >

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Post #: 101

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/30/2004 4:35:49 AM

Svar

Posts: 381
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From: China Lake, Ca
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Since I just had an encounter with the Yamoto in my Scenario #14 game I thought I would share the results with the extremely active posters on this thread.

On 3 Nov 42 the Yamoto was in hex 59,92 with no damage heading to Gili Gili.
On 4 Nov 42 she was in hex 57,94 and was hit with 2 torpedos and 1 bomb, damage 26/57/12.
On 5 Nov 42 she was in hex 57,91 and was hit with 1 torpedo and 18 bombs, damage 38/74/36.
On 6 Nov 42 she was in hex 57,88, damage 44/72/14.
On 7 Nov 42 she was in hex 58,86, damage 48/82/6.
On 8 Nov 42 she was in hex 59,84, damage 48/89/2.
On 9 Nov 42 she was in hex 59,82, damage 48/89.
On 10 Nov 42 she was in hex 60,80, damage 48/90.
On 11 Nov 42 she was in hex 62,80, damage 48/92.

I don't think Yamoto was hit after 5 Nov 42 but sailing to Truk has continued to cause flooding and it appears that the fires caused both flooding damage and system damage.

According to my sources the Yamoto took over 10 torpedos plus numerous bombs before she sank, so my results look pretty historical. I don't know the ultimate fate of Yamoto in my game because 11 Nov 42 is the last turn I played and she is only 2 hexes from Truk.

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 102

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/30/2004 4:42:15 AM

siRkid

Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
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quote:

According to my sources the Yamoto took over 10 torpedos plus numerous bombs before she sank, so my results look pretty historical. I don't know the ultimate fate of Yamoto in my game because 11 Nov 42 is the last turn I played and she is only 2 hexes from Truk.

Man, are you holding your breath or what!

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Post #: 103

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/30/2004 7:26:37 AM

Svar

Posts: 381
Joined: 9/7/2000
From: China Lake, Ca
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid
Man, are you holding your breath or what!

I'm playing the US and figure the Yamoto will make Truk safely but should be out of the war for about 18 months. Before then the new patch will be out and I will have started a modified version of the 8 Dec 41 Grand Scenario. There are many changes to the OOB that if not implemented I will change for my own 8 Dec 41 Scenario. I have played enough now that I'm comfortable to start the Grand Scenario at the hard level as the US and play until near the end.

(in reply to siRkid)

Post #: 104

RE: US 1000lb GP bomb test - 7/30/2004 11:39:29 AM

Rainerle

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Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Burghausen/Bavaria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

This is exactly why I ask for some historical fact. People post things without details, people read them and draw conclusions that are wrong.

Here are the real facts:

22 Sep 43 - 3x 2 ton mines placed by midget subs. (Damaged but still seaworthy)

3 Apr 44 - hit by 10 225 kg bombs and 4 775 kg bombs from 40 aircraft. 132 dead, 316 wounded (damaged but still seaworthy)

24 Aug 44 - hit by 2 bombs, 8 dead, 13 wounded (trivial damage!)

15 Sep 44 - hit by 1 bomb (5.4 ton Tallboy) (severe damage!)

12 Nov 44 - hit by 2 more Tallboys, 4 other near misses (bye bye Tirpitz!)

Now, show me how anything can be judged based on the above *historical* facts about the small 1000 lb USA GP bomb from the above information.

Hi,
what we can learn Mr. Frag is that RN bomb and BB experts turn to very big bombs to destroy a immobile BB after they judged that small bombs just will not do the job. And that after they hit Tirpitz with 750 kg (approx 1600 lb) bombs. So I (only me here) judge that persons historically involved in the subject (and more competent than any of us) deem 'small' (we're talking 1000lb

) bombs as inappropriate to destroy BB's (and Tirpitz is less armoured than Yamato class).

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Post #: 105

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